VonMerrick Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I've always been interested in fielding a force of Night Lords, however I'm a little confused on the current fluff. So far I've gathered that the Legion is broken as there are many different takes on how the legion presents itself in the 41st millenium. First there are the uncorrputed Night Lords who abhor chaos and its corruption and are still try to hold the basic company and squad formations of space marines just against the Imperium. Then there are the "chaosy" night Lords who have Daemon Princes and other generic chaos exlcusive units. My question is has there ever been fluff to show which is more prevalent or does this vary warband to warband? I'm looking to use a Daemon Prince as the leader for my Night Lords and have some of the exclusive units I can't have as a loyalist. Is there any units which are strictly "no go" based on the fluff as it currently stands? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I've always been interested in fielding a force of Night Lords, however I'm a little confused on the current fluff. So far I've gathered that the Legion is broken as there are many different takes on how the legion presents itself in the 41st millenium. First there are the uncorrputed Night Lords who abhor chaos and its corruption and are still try to hold the basic company and squad formations of space marines just against the Imperium. Then there are the "chaosy" night Lords who have Daemon Princes and other generic chaos exlcusive units. My question is has there ever been fluff to show which is more prevalent or does this vary warband to warband? I'm looking to use a Daemon Prince as the leader for my Night Lords and have some of the exclusive units I can't have as a loyalist. Is there any units which are strictly "no go" based on the fluff as it currently stands? I guess technically the answer is no but that Night Lords tend to not Worship chaos and so tend not to have cult troopers and so (although it is possible that a few guys or even a Warband might dedicate itself to a God... in theory... however you won't destroy the 40k background if you have a squad of khorne berzerkers)... on the other hand they are do like to use chaos as a tool... so say Icons are fluffy they have done some stuff to make a banner that makes them stronger while they have it but they are not dedicated to a god like those with the mark of (insert god here)... I would say the average Night Lords Warband it in the middle most are not like Talos or the Exalted (to use ADBs work as an example)... overall both are these types are likely to be rare... then you have some of the members if Talos' squad who each seem to have a connection to each god (Khorne guy is the best example) I would say you have a few of these kinds of people... then you have the we are evil we don't care about the chaos gods but we will use their power as long as we don't dedicate ourselves... As for Daemon princes... that is certainly possible as I'm certain of two Night Lords who are DPs from fluff and a third who I can't remember if his being a DP is fanfic or not (I haven't read the book he is in). Also Night Lords are noted for using daemons ;) So basically you can get away with using most stuff in the codex... Although you might want to limit yourself on cult troops (if you want to be pure night lords) although I could see A squad of Night Lords becoming Noise Marines or Khorne Berzerkers... Plague marines not so much and certainly not Rubrics :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Thats what I gathered as well. I wanted to use a few obliterators (2-3) a D Prince and have my squads have the Icon of Chaos Glory. I think that represents the middle ground of the Night Lords, not a pure marine like Talos but not entirely daemonic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolved23 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Night Lords are paranoid space marines and as such very rarely trust anyone outside of their own legion and even then still have the air of suspicion. That is why you here two opinions of chaos. Personally I like the idea of traitors but not dedicated to the chaos gods thats why mine avoid using the marks. There are the Night Lords that enter willing compacts with daemons though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I just started a army of Night Lords. I would recommend reading Lord of the Night and Soulhunter if you'd like to get really good idea of what the Night Lords are all about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I just started a army of Night Lords. I would recommend reading Lord of the Night and Soulhunter if you'd like to get really good idea of what the Night Lords are all about. I would recommend you read Shadow Knight or listen to the Dark King if you REALLY want to know what the Night Lords are all about. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I would recommend you absorb all information available and make your own decision as to how they're structured and act, instead of pigeonholing an entire Legion into a rigid paradigm centering on a single tool in their arsenal of capability. :lol: Also, this is my 666th post on the B&C, so you know my wicked intellect is guiding you wisely. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I would recommend you absorb all information available and make your own decision as to how they're structured and act, instead of pigeonholing an entire Legion into a rigid paradigm centering on a single tool in their arsenal of capability. :tu: I have to agree with your statement that he should read all night lord fluff but your mistake of assuming that i simply believe night lords should be all terror tactics and nothing more is just that. A mistake. To propose that Night Lords are simply one homogeneous blob of clones is simply foolish and I never professed such a idiotic ideal. I support creativity within the VIII legion in every shape or form but I will not agree with it to the extent where the the one thing that made Night Lords so unique in the first place and is the very core of the night lord dogma is completely ignored to the point of nonexistence. Terror Tactics and overwhelming brutality is the essence of what it means to be a Night Lord, whether you choose to accept it or not. It is the very creed in which the legion was based upon during the crusade. It was that very creed that saw their exile from the imperium, and it a twisted corrupted form of that creed that still beats in the heart of the night lords of the 41st millenium. My issue with Soul Hunter is the lack of this creed. It is emptiness of this key point that makes talos seem less then what he should be. Aside from this factor, a Night Lord can be on any level of the spectrum (hell Talos acted like a real Night Lord I could be proud of in Shadow Knight and the entire squad still retained their unique personalities) but if you simply ignore the terror, you ignore what it means to be a night lord and if you do that, then you really do just end up being a bland stereotypical chaos marine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Is it not stated directly in Soul Hunter that Abaddon misuses the Night Lords by sending them against Skitarii who do not feel terror, and that fact is griped about consistently by Talos to the Exalted? Is it not mentioned in Lord of the Night that terror is the weapon, not the motive? Harping on the "lol, scary" aspect is doing a monumental disservice to the Night Lords by markedly assuming that their terror tactics would be flaunted without warrant or cause. They're terrorists, not criminals; they aren't suffering from psychopathy or any sort of maligned sense of social disorder, especially not Legion-wide. Night Haunter did what he did because it worked, not because it was his absolute or for his enjoyment, and I don't buy the theory that such a mindset would infect his Legion. Is this to say that there aren't psychotic Night Lords? Not hardly; Acerbus and his warband/Company/mob is an example of how the thing could go wrong in all the wrong ways, but the presumption that they would all resort to such as a constant is as cookie-cutter Chaos as you can get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 They're terrorists, not criminals; they aren't suffering from psychopathy or any sort of maligned sense of social disorder, especially not Legion-wide.You may want to reread their Index Astartes article if you believe that. :D As for the OP, You can fit almost anything into your list these days, regardless of Legion, all it takes is creativity. In fact the current codex support it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks everyone. I have read Soul Hunter, and Lords of the Night. I'm also waiting for a copy of Throne of Lies. Where can I find "Shadow Knight"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 They're terrorists, not criminals; they aren't suffering from psychopathy or any sort of maligned sense of social disorder, especially not Legion-wide.You may want to reread their Index Astartes article if you believe that. :) Would that be the scant and hopelessly worthless Index Astartes article on the Night Lords you're referring to, milord? :) The IA article reads to me as a collection of supposition clouded with a Loyalist mindset towards these "records" as pertains to the Loyalist Legio B&C. Chaos Codex 3.5 and virtually every other piece of canon fluff say this is more a matter of Punishers than of Jokers. Once again, terror is the tool, not the purpose; monstrosity where necessary, not for monstrosity's sake; the gem has more than one facet. Cruelty and brutality 24 hours a day is a World Eaters schtick. :) Where can I find "Shadow Knight"? The Black Library website, ostensibly, though I believe they're currently out of stock. It was a very limited run. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2528945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 The IA article reads to me as a collection of supposition clouded with a Loyalist mindset towards these "records" as pertains to the Loyalist Legio B&C. That's a matter of style, not content. A lot of studio fluff from the 3rd edition was written with an imperial in-universe perspective in mind. That includes the Index Astartes articles. However, they are still meant to give the reader an actual insight. Even the 3.5 CSM Codex, which superseded the Index Astartes rules-wise when it came out, points to them as accompanying background material. Chaos Codex 3.5 and virtually every other piece of canon fluff say this is more a matter of Punishers than of Jokers. Once again, terror is the tool, not the purpose; monstrosity where necessary, not for monstrosity's sake Well, the only thing that comes to my mind is Zso Sahaal's view of things in 'Lord of the Night', which differs deliberately from the 'kill-for-kicks' mentality that has been established fluff since 2nd edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2529020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 The IA article reads to me as a collection of supposition clouded with a Loyalist mindset towards these "records" as pertains to the Loyalist Legio B&C. ok when Fabius Bile says in one of the IA articles that after the implanation of an organ from a sw scout , NL become less brooding and tend to not get fits of paranoia they normaly have and that this means that after the chaos wins , they will still be use for loyalist [aka as parts] , how can that be the imperial view on things ? how can an imperial even know what bile said or have done ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2529102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 The IA article reads to me as a collection of supposition clouded with a Loyalist mindset towards these "records" as pertains to the Loyalist Legio B&C. ok when Fabius Bile says in one of the IA articles that after the implanation of an organ from a sw scout , NL become less brooding and tend to not get fits of paranoia they normaly have and that this means that after the chaos wins , they will still be use for loyalist [aka as parts] , how can that be the imperial view on things ? how can an imperial even know what bile said or have done ? Firstly, that has what to do with the Night Lords article in question? Secondly, the article in question describes the Night Lords as the "some of the darkest and vilest" of the Traitor Legions, and within that same article any potential mention of the Emperor's complicity in driving them to treason is classified as "heretical". How is that not an Imperial view? It's not as though they're describing themselves as such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2529142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 They are described as so dark and all, because of the latest recruits. When the night haunter took up his legion it the first recruits came from Nostramo without crime (cuz everybody was afraid of The Night Haunter). When the years went by in the great crusade, the fear for the night haunter on nostramo went away, since he was never on the planet. Crime came again to nostramo. When the legion needed new recruits they chose those that are strong. What happened is that all the criminals were the toughest and the strongest, and thus were the ones that got recruited in the Legion. This brought ofc a sort of extra taint in the legion. Those that were with the legion as long as the Primarch himself, are most oftenly those that use terror as weapon, and used it cuz it worked, and not because of enjoyment. However the criminals that came later, and replaced most of the dead 'oldies' did do a lot for their enjoyment. That helped was a nice extra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212518-night-lords-fluff-questions/#findComment-2539482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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