Plasma eat-face squad?

[Erasmus of Baal]

With the threads on Honor Guard and the overpricedness of Plasma Pistols going (rather well-written OP in that thread, by the way), I've been considering both and came up with the following hypothetical beat-face unit. I just wanted to throw this out for the community to consider before I actually made it: a squad of Honor Guard, paired with Dante for the hit-and-run, likely bearing Jump Packs, and equipped with (1) full plasma guns or (2) plasma pistols (optimally with power weapons). With 1, the squad would rapid-fire, get assaulted, beat some face thanks to Dante, hit-and-run to escape, rinse, repeat. With 2, the squad would do similar except that you're charging every turn; with optimal wargear, this is more damaging than 1 but also 60 points more expensive, and without the PWs can only assault hordes to good effect.

 

The whole unit comes out to 450 points, 510 with the PWs, do you think that this would be a good unit to use?

[yodaid764]

Expensive and gimmicky. As has been mentioned in the Plasma Pistol thread, you hardly get to use the weapon itself for it's full effect. More often than not, you are paying 15 points for +1 A in CC. Add that PW in and now you are paying 30 points extra for one model which likely doubles the cost of him anyway. Yes, 2+ Armor Save HG is beastly and can be a real thorn in the enemy's side until they hit back with plasma, melta, power weapons etc.

I would suggest maybe playing some friendly games where you proxy the unit and playtest it. Maybe using the PGs you DoA in behind a unit/transport and shoot the living hell out of it. Unit dies horribly (pending bad wound rolling on your part or cover saves) or the transport is kaput. If they charge you, you are still decent in HtH, may still go first and prevent getting your golden butts handed to you.

If you go the CC route....well, for around the same price you get a Term Assault Squad with a LR. They all have LCs or even T hammers, the 2+/5++ and can face down most units without too much of a worry.

Food for thought

[Erasmus of Baal]

Expensive and gimmicky. As has been mentioned in the Plasma Pistol thread, you hardly get to use the weapon itself for it's full effect. More often than not, you are paying 15 points for +1 A in CC. Add that PW in and now you are paying 30 points extra for one model which likely doubles the cost of him anyway. Yes, 2+ Armor Save HG is beastly and can be a real thorn in the enemy's side until they hit back with plasma, melta, power weapons etc.

I would suggest maybe playing some friendly games where you proxy the unit and playtest it. Maybe using the PGs you DoA in behind a unit/transport and shoot the living hell out of it. Unit dies horribly (pending bad wound rolling on your part or cover saves) or the transport is kaput. If they charge you, you are still decent in HtH, may still go first and prevent getting your golden butts handed to you.

If you go the CC route....well, for around the same price you get a Term Assault Squad with a LR. They all have LCs or even T hammers, the 2+/5++ and can face down most units without too much of a worry.

Food for thought

 

Good point on the close-combat option, I guess that's not so viable, but I think you're looking at the wrong Codex, friend--BA HG only get Power Armor. The idea is that the unit is preferably striking at a dedicated assault unit before the target gets a chance to react, and the JPs might give us a better ability to redeploy and attack elsewhere over the Terminators, as (especially with the Plasma Guns) there's a decent chance of being able to use the gimmick every turn. I agree that the guns would likely work best in a DoA list.

 

I now realize that this could also work with meltaguns or Infernus pistols (where the Infernus pistols' shorter range could really start hurting the user), possibly to greater effect. The meltagun loadout would be a full 20 points cheaper, cause Instant Death to ICs, and have half as many shots.

[Joasht]

I don't know, to me spending 450 points on a squad of six men is unthinkable unless for some reason they were REALLY killy. Plasma guns and a lack of any true close combat presence without power weapons doesn't qualify as "really killy" to me; yes, when they drop they will have 8 Plasma shots and a single Infernus, but thats it. When they get assaulted by anything designed to actually assault (i.e. specialists, not "assault-wannabe's" like Assault Marines) they die, simply because your close combat power is almost completely dependant on Dante. If you buy them power weapons they become a *little* bit more killy, but then you pay so much for it. Plus, lets not forget that Plasma can, at times, backfire. In one extreme case I've had three of my Plasma Cannons (back when they were cool :rolleyes:) backfire on me on the same turn :/

 

IMO if you wanted something to just drop and open a can of firepower, go buy 10 Sternguard and shove them in a Drop Pod. If you wanted to you could give ALL of them Combi-weapons (yeay, 10 combi-plasma, or combi-melta. Heck maybe squeeze in a heavy flamer while you are at it) and the squad would cost you less than that, even if you substituted one with a Priest. Sure, you don't have Dante, but then theres always the option of taking, say, Tycho. Its application would be more of a shooty unit, and to be honest I'm not a fan of a single throw-away drop pod squad unless it was small, as having so many points deep strike near the enemy isn't a good idea unless your army was built around it.

 

And, I really cannot stress this enough. Space Marines with 3 normal (i.e. non-powered, rending etc) attacks per piece (aka RAS on the charge or Honor Guard being charged), even in squads of ten men, don't constitute a "beat face" unit, especially when its five men. And Dante, despite his five high-I mastercrafted power weapon attacks, by himself attached to such a squad doesn't suddenly make them a deathstar either. Remember, Dante doesn't have EW, so if the opponent sneaks in a single powerfist attack Dante WILL die (not impossible, your five normal guys + Dante wouldn't deal enough wounds on average to even come close to forcing a wound allocation on the Power Fist guy in a well-sized squad) .

[Brother Nathan]

id say no to plasma, yea to melta. dont forget dantes pin point drop rule! And the fact the unit also has furious charge. so you can go with 1 plain, 1 storm sheild, 1 fist and melta gun, 1 powerweapon and infernus- and maby a chapter banner somewhere....i only say the 2 melta weapons as on top of dante 3 auta do and you want to beable to fight on when domeone bits the dust. In planet strike id say go full tilt on the infernus and powerweapons, and even stick in a libby with sheild, rage and an infernus too... Pinpoint drop, break a bastion ten roll through the contents in 1 cc round, sheils and fnp to survive shooting then run accros to next target... Pure pain! (may not leave many points though....)

[Morollan]

a squad of Honor Guard, paired with Dante for the hit-and-run, likely bearing Jump Packs, and equipped with (1) full plasma guns or (2) plasma pistols (optimally with power weapons).

 

If you want a melee squad to drop with Dante I'd suggest Sanguinary Guard, as long as you don't intend them to attack anything with power weapons and higher I. Drop them in wherever you choose, shoot your chosen target with 10 bolter rounds and an infernus pistol and wait for them to charge. In their turn you can Hit & Run away, move 12", shoot and then assault. As long as you can survive a single round of shooting then it's a decent tactic. I tend to drop them behind enemy lines and use the target unit to block LoS from as much as possible of the enemy.

[Judaz]

450 pts gives you 12 DC with jump pack and 2 power weapons. Or Dante+6 DC w JP and 1 PW.

Honour guard is good, but rather expensive. DC is good, but rather expensive. But Dante+DC is fun!