Fast-rolling combi-plasmas

[trefenwyd]

So . . . I don't have the rule book in front of me, but I can remember two passages:

 

1. Roll like-weapons together for speed of game play (i.e., if I have 10 bolters, roll all 10 or 20 (rapid-fire) shots at the same time (for same BS models) - same principle for 10 combi-plasmas)

2. Plasma "gets hot!" wounds affect models, not units

 

Option 1. I roll my 20 combi-plasma shots at the same time, and end up with 4 "1s", I then take 4 saves, I fail 2, and remove 2 models.

Option 2. I roll each mode's "to hit" separately, and end up with 8 rolls of perfection and 2 rolls of double 1s (same 4 1s in all) - 2 models take 2 saves each, one passing both and one failing both. I remove one model.

 

In each option above, I rolled the same number of dice, rolled the same # of 1s, took the same amount of saves, and failed the same amount of saves, yet remove different numbers of models. Which is correct?

 

My opinion: The "roll like weapons together" rule is for speed, not content of game play (in fact, it may just be a suggestion, not a rule), and since plasma wounds are allocated to a model, then each model must roll separately despite identitcal wargear.

 

Anyone disagree?

[Grimtooth]

So . . . I don't have the rule book in front of me, but I can remember two passages:

 

1. Roll like-weapons together for speed of game play (i.e., if I have 10 bolters, roll all 10 or 20 (rapid-fire) shots at the same time (for same BS models) - same principle for 10 combi-plasmas)

2. Plasma "gets hot!" wounds affect models, not units

 

Option 1. I roll my 20 combi-plasma shots at the same time, and end up with 4 "1s", I then take 4 saves, I fail 2, and remove 2 models.

Option 2. I roll each mode's "to hit" separately, and end up with 8 rolls of perfection and 2 rolls of double 1s (same 4 1s in all) - 2 models take 2 saves each, one passing both and one failing both. I remove one model.

 

In each option above, I rolled the same number of dice, rolled the same # of 1s, took the same amount of saves, and failed the same amount of saves, yet remove different numbers of models. Which is correct?

 

My opinion: The "roll like weapons together" rule is for speed, not content of game play (in fact, it may just be a suggestion, not a rule), and since plasma wounds are allocated to a model, then each model must roll separately despite identitcal wargear.

 

Anyone disagree?

 

You screw yourself in option 1 because those four 1's could have been just on two models. Gets Hot is a model by model basis so you do not get to roll for speed on these ones.

[wheelballer]

I'd agree with you that in your particular case rolling per model is a better idea because as you said, gets hot! wounds apply to specific models.

 

As far as batch rolling goes, that is not an actual rule, merely a suggestion to make game-play faster. It says in he BRB on page 18 that "you can simply make separate dice rolls for different weapons or shooters, as long as it is clear which dice rolls represent which shots." However in a tournament you may be required to do so for sake of time, so it is really up to who or where you are playing.

 

The main thing to remember (which is said on page 2 in the BRB) is that everything is just a suggestion of how the game should be played. In reality, you could play it however you like as long as you and your opponent agree. Only in tournament settings would you have to worry about following strict rules or rules lawyers.

[thade]

Well, we are the OR board; here we're kind of required to be rules lawyers, no? :lol:

 

Gets Hot! wounds are dealt with on a per-model basis, so for each firing model you would separately roll their shots, process any rerolls (if there are any, for instance twin-linked), and take any saves required (if 1s are rolled to-hit and Gets Hot! wounds are allocated to this firing model).

 

Better for us? Yes. The way it's supposed to happen? Yes. Cheers. =)

[AyanamiKun]

I also think that a model which is rapid firing a plasma gun might die from the first shot and not get off the second at all. So by rolling both shots at once it would basically negate that problem. Or am I missing something?

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I also think that a model which is rapid firing a plasma gun might die from the first shot and not get off the second at all. So by rolling both shots at once it would basically negate that problem. Or am I missing something?

 

The shots happen at once. That is to say, THAT model's shots happen at once.

 

If he has a normal shot and a Getshot! shot, they both occur.

[AyanamiKun]

Thanks for clarifying this :rolleyes:

[thade]

I also think that a model which is rapid firing a plasma gun might die from the first shot and not get off the second at all. So by rolling both shots at once it would basically negate that problem. Or am I missing something?

 

Yea, you rapid fire and roll both shots simultaneously. Let's say we roll a 6 and a 1.

 

The 6 is a hit; roll to wound.

The 1 is a Gets Hot! result; the model takes a wound, roll your armor save.

 

The rules impose no strict ordering on when these shots take place because (frankly) it would over-complicate and bog down the game. Just imagine having to roll every tac marine's rapid fire shots one-by-one and for each shot, rolling each wound then waiting on an armor save THEN *re*-measuring to see if your unit is still in range. Make more sense? Actually, not really. Annoying? Extremely. It's a game, and it affords us some shortcuts so we can worry less about what makes sense and more about how awesome rolling dice over cool-looking models is.

[greatcrusade08]

if all the models are armed identially then i roll them all at the same tme.

if the fist armed sergeant (or captain or whatever) has a combi-plasma then id roll him seperately as his gets hot wound would affect him alone.. identically armed marines in the same unit wouldnt matter who got 'wounded' by gets hot since they are all identical for wound allocation purposes.

 

i use a command squad with apoth and 4 combi-plasma vets, so i roll them all at the same time, all ones i roll together for saves.. i guess if i rolled 5 or more ones it would be an exception to the wund allocation rules in that all 5 wounds would go on the 4 vets as the apoth didnt fire a plasma weapon.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

if all the models are armed identially then i roll them all at the same tme.

if the fist armed sergeant (or captain or whatever) has a combi-plasma then id roll him seperately as his gets hot wound would affect him alone.. identically armed marines in the same unit wouldnt matter who got 'wounded' by gets hot since they are all identical for wound allocation purposes.

 

Well, now I'm confused. This one makes sense to me.

[Grey Mage]

Except it does- 'gets hot' wounds are allocated to the firing model, and if you have multiple shots coming from a single model its possible for you to get two overheats and only lose a single model.

 

Sorry igotsmeakabob!! I didnt see you there :tu:.

 

Its very simple. Each overheating model takes its own wounds. They dont take other models wounds, as there is no wound allocation step- the rule itself tells us to allocate wounds to the model whose shooting came up a 1.

 

Note, even when being shot at we actually allocate wounds to each individual model RAW. The 'bleed over' effect is something that is mentioned in the rules for being shot at, and the rules for assault.... but not in gets hot.

[thade]

If you think about Gets Hot! being less like standard Would Allocation and more like a Dangerous Terrain Test...perhaps that will help?

 

Per Model supersedes standard Wound Alloc. This is more important in DT tests as model placement means everything to it, but it's functionally no different here.

[bystrom]

Speed-rolling is an option there to speed up the game when it can be used. In the above example, you would have different coloured dice for each model and roll them together, that way you can easily identify which model gets hot while rolling everything in one batch. If you don't have enough colours (I don't), you take the time, I would point at one model, roll dice for him, point next model, roll dice and so on. Its not too slow, with the help of my opponent picking aside gets hot dice to relevant model.

 

Of course, if each model only had one shot I would roll them together all at once (assuming they were all the same models), if they had more than one shot each, I would roll separately, as then the issue of several wounds piling up on a model can occur.

[greatcrusade08]

with the command squad example above, the chances of rolling two ones (per marine) and failing both saves and FNP saves are so low that i dont consider it a problem, i just batch roll the dice and make the saves...

although what grey mage says is the RAw, i find that the only one losing out would be me, therefore i have no qualms about speeding the game up this way

[thade]

although what grey mage says is the RAw, i find that the only one losing out would be me, therefore i have no qualms about speeding the game up this way

 

This does make sense and - were it the case that the game was running long - I'd batch roll these for myself too. It's bad but not *terri-bad*.

[Frosty the Pyro]

although what grey mage says is the RAw, i find that the only one losing out would be me, therefore i have no qualms about speeding the game up this way

This is why I have dice of many collors. I have several diferent styled blue dice I tend to use for plasma, I just need to say the dark blue two are model A and the light blue pair are model B.

[Kronk]

if all the models are armed identially then i roll them all at the same tme.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Gets hot specifically affects the firing model. If you have multiple models firing plasma, even if they are the same, you roll individually.

[Hellios]

if all the models are armed identially then i roll them all at the same tme.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Gets hot specifically affects the firing model. If you have multiple models firing plasma, even if they are the same, you roll individually.

 

Or as said if you have dice of different colours you can allocate a different colour to a model and then role them all at the same time as you know who is who.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Generally only matters if they are rapid firing or the squad has complex wargear options going on (like Wolf Guard). If multiple identical models are each firing only one shot each, just batch roll them. If it's multiple shots then you need to go separate.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Generally only matters if they are rapid firing or the squad has complex wargear options going on (like Wolf Guard). If multiple identical models are each firing only one shot each, just batch roll them. If it's multiple shots then you need to go separate.

not technicly true, as even if the models are identical the position may matter and as gets hot specificly effects the firer, even in those cases you would want to roll by model, as the removal of plasma gunner A and plasma guner B could be the difference between being in coherency or not, or being in charge range or not, regardless of wether or not gunner A and gunner B are identical in wargear/profile.

[LPetersson]

I have a boat load of different coloured dice, so for a squad of 5 Plasma Guns I'd grab 10 dice of 5 different colours.

 

Problem sorted...