Taking out termies

[Brother Ambroz]

Ok so I recently returned to Chaos after taking a few years off and I'm still getting used to this codex. I played a Blood angel player last night and beat him but it was purely out of luck. He had 2 squads of termies which he just rolled badly and one of my tac squads ended up whiping them out. But has anyone come up with a good way of taking them out? Also any tips for taking out badasses like Mephistion? I just lascannoned him to death for the most part and finished him with a powerfist to the face but it seems like there should be an easier way to do it.

[Narse]

I could be wrong but I always thought our Terminators where a good option for there Terminators. Ours hit first, and have some nicer weapon options and are cheaper.

 

After that, i'd have to go with berserkers and sheer number of dice.

[Tanhausen]

As a Deathwing player... I can tell you what pains me most:

 

- powerweapons

- shot saturation. Specially S5 shots (heavy bolter).

- plasma, specially the cannons. If terminators Deep Strike, they are BEGGING for a vindicator or plasma template

- if the terminators are loaded with power fists or thunder hammers... that means they have to take ALL your hits and survive in order to hit back. Claws are your friends there.

 

Hope it helps :drool:

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah I've been running with a squad of havocs (2 lascannons and 2 heavy bolters, Mark of nurgle) a tac squad (missile launcher, PF champ, mark of nurgle) another CC tac squad, a khorny DP, and a raptor squad with 2 meltas a PF and my slannesh IC killer Lord. The lord worked really well i rolled a 6 with his Daemon weapon and insta killed dante. The termies though stomped through my CC tac squad but got stopped by my nurgle tac squad. I think i'll probably have to get myself some termies then if they're the best option besides shooting the hell out of them.

 

Thanks for the replies it does help.

[minigun762]

I find my 2x Plasma CSM squads work well.

 

One rapid fire from the squad should get you 2 dead TH/SS Terminators. Assuming the leftovers charge you, you'll pull down another one before they can strike with your Chainswords. This leaves 2-3 Terminators left to fight off 10 CSMs.

 

Oblits and Vindicators are both good counters, even for TH/SS since you're still wounding on 2's and they can only save so many 3++ rolls.

 

From my understanding, you want to treat Meph the same way people treat our MCs by firing high S low AP weapons into his face at range.

[Brother Ambroz]

Oblits and Vindicators are both good counters, even for TH/SS since you're still wounding on 2's and they can only save so many 3++ rolls.

 

From my understanding, you want to treat Meph the same way people treat our MCs by firing high S low AP weapons into his face at range.

 

Are vindicators really that decent? I don't like the way they look to me. They seem too easy to kill with only 12 armor for a tank and such a small range.

 

Yeah with Meph that's what i did just blasted him over and over with lascannons and heavy bolters. That T6 is a b%$@! though.

[Xeonic]

Vindis are AV13 in all PA codices I've read. Their weak points are the AV11 flanks coupled with the One Big Gun, so one immobilized or weapon destroyed takes it out of the action.

I wouldn't take a Vindi specifically to counter termies, but if you have one(or three) on the table they're an ideal target for sure.

Vindis are most effective used in pairs or trios as they can cover each other's flanks and potentially overwhelm your opponent's ability to deal with AV13.

 

For termies, the typical counter is low AP/high strength fire, or (massed)power weapons. Massed fire or attacks work, but if you have some low AP fire in there, go for it. In my lists I'd shoot them with two or more melta or flamer squads(and then assault if possible with both squads), the meltas are AP1 S8 and have no trouble cutting through a standard termie, and the flamers can produce a number of hits. If we're talking TH/SS termies I'd fire at them from range as long as possible, as my fists would have some difficulty gaining purchase.

I wouldn't assault either with a T4 non EW HQ as the plethora of powerfists or TH means the character is liable to be ID'd on the first round of combat.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

That T6 is a :cuss ! though.

What's that you say? Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Autocannons and Lascannons aren't bothered by T6? That's what I thought I heard ;)

[Brother Ambroz]

Oh trust me I had lascannons meltas and missle launchers. Most of them were directed at mephiston and two dreads though. Yeah I know the massed firepower sometimes works with those sort of guys I once lost a Khorne DP with the last codex to MASSIVE amounts of lasguns. Sure he slaughtered 2-3 squads but it was lasguns that did the damage to him.

[the jeske]

ok am not getting something . you should have what 6-8 plasma/melta on 4 csm/pm squads and 6+ plasma/las canons + 2 counter DPs at 2k. why do you need 3 turns to kill a single mefiston ??

[Xeonic]

...LOS issues? Meph is a normal sized Infantry model even if he's an Daemon Prince by statline. Easy to hide and give coversaves to.

[the jeske]

if mefo is LoS blocked then the termis or termi transports arent . you cant LoS everything [unless the terrain is a big block in the middle or a LoS wall and one of the armies is a static gunline]. something should have died.

[Brother Ambroz]

We had 2 large terrain blocks in the center. Also the game was 1500 not 2k. I had 3 meltas only 2 of which got to shoot though. My havoc squad was well worth it though. Blew up a rhino, 2 dreads, 3-4 termies and got 3 wounds on meph.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Five Havocs, 4 plasma guns.

 

Terminators?

 

What terminators?

[the jeske]

We had 2 large terrain blocks in the center. Also the game was 1500 not 2k. I had 3 meltas only 2 of which got to shoot though. My havoc squad was well worth it though. Blew up a rhino, 2 dreads, 3-4 termies and got 3 wounds on meph.

this means 5 turns of shoting without LoS getting blocked. but then again considering your army is made out of singles and stuff like las csm units I understand why you may have had problems with killing stuff.

[Zeller]

Five Havocs, 4 plasma guns.

 

Terminators?

 

What terminators?

 

 

This.

 

You could always throw a hoard of lesser demons at him.

[Brother Ambroz]

Five Havocs, 4 plasma guns.

 

Terminators?

 

What terminators?

 

This just seems somewhat a waste for a squad of havocs to me. I try to make my force versatile, usually use havocs for 2x las-anti tank fire and 2x heavy bolters for anti-personnel. Then the DP and Raptors as added anti-personnel.

[Hellios]

Five Havocs, 4 plasma guns.

 

Terminators?

 

What terminators?

 

This just seems somewhat a waste for a squad of havocs to me. I try to make my force versatile, usually use havocs for 2x las-anti tank fire and 2x heavy bolters for anti-personnel. Then the DP and Raptors as added anti-personnel.

The problem there is that whatever you shoot you probably waste something... against armour heavy bolters are a waste (unless you are hitting AV10, even then not ideal) if you are shooting at light infantry lascannons are a waste... you have a small amount of cross over in the middle ground but things like Plasma-cannons, auto-cannons, missile launchers are better for general purposes and that they would be better combined with lascannons... obviously they are more expensive than Heavy bolters (I think?).

[hazardousZERO]

Have you considered taking some chosen. You can have 5 special weapons in there. Or take some of your own termies with combi plasma shoot then charge. You could also take a mark on them id say MoT so your invuls are +4 and you will still have more attacks then he does. How does he use them?Are they in a raider or deep striking? Are they assault or standard? You could always just ignore them.

[aeroplane]

If you are running Chaos Terminators, I highly suggest equipping them with single lightning claws - although it seems odd, and looks odder, the re-roll to wound (at our good I) is worth it's weight in gold. Especially against loyalist Termies, most of whom attack at I1, the re-roll helps make sure they are dead before they hit back.

 

Loyalist Assault Terminators are a very, very good unit, one that most codicies would give a left nut for. Tangling with them takes a bit of thought, but remember, their only weakness is the hammer's low I. Use that to your advantage, and hope he doesn't take too many Lightning Claws.(so he strikes at I4) Chaos Termies with a single LC and the Mark of Slaanesh to a good job.

 

Mephiston dies by getting shot. Remember, he is not an independent character, and can't be put in a squad to give him wounds. (If he were, he would be a win button) Shoot, shoot, shoot him.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Marine players (I am one) don't generally take lightning claws in assault terminator squads. The 3++ save from storm shields is now too good to pass up. Thunder hammers are almost an afterthought.

 

The combination of ranged weapon and lightning claw doesn't look odd on the Chaos Terminators with their somewhat more subtle modelling. It is a trifle odd looking on loyalist Terminators (like my Space Wolves who are the only loyalist chapter that have that option) but I regard it as the default option, storm bolter, lightning claw, 38 points.

 

For Chaos I would say, combi-melta, power weapon at 35 points is the best option. 40 points for a twin-linked bolter and lightning claw I would call a bit expensive. If lightning claws were 5 points instead of 10 I'd say take them every time but they're competing with power fists and while initiative 1 is a pain strength 8 (but only on a couple of models per squad) is a more useful option.

 

5 terminators, 4 combi-meltas, power fist, chainfist, reaper, comes in at 220 points. For giggles giving them the Icon of Khorne will increase their damage output by 25-50%. I would say taking the Icon is more worthwhile than upgrading the power weapons to lightning claws.

[Brother Nihm]

Oblits and Vindicators are both good counters, even for TH/SS since you're still wounding on 2's and they can only save so many 3++ rolls.

This, and plain old Plasma Guns.

 

Nothing roasts them better, they were given the 5+ 'crux' save for that very reason.

And the 3+ SS save reduces them to wearing 'Power Armour' in the face of str 7 weapons (wound on 2+).

 

In short, kill their transport, then roast the pricy eggs inside with plasma.

[--eFTy-->]

Doesn't anyone enjoy killing storm shield terminators with volleys of bolter fire? :lol:

 

5 guys dead means 30 rolled saves which translates to 60 hits and 90 shots fired by 45 marines withing 12"

 

Oh... That's why. And yet my terminators always die to bolters...

[Zhukov]

Counter to assault termies with a regular list:

 

Without taking potential support for the Termies into account (which there ussually isnt really, Termies are pretty much their only CC unit) and assuming a 5 man unit:

Shoot and Charge with Berzerkers. You should take out roughly 3 Terminators with that only... So a squad of 5 can be countered by a single unit of ours. Powerfist could kill another Termie. Termies will lose combat and will lose the unit in the next assault phase almost certainly.

 

Using multiple units to charge them, or weakening them up with shooting beforehand makes it even easier.

 

Really, it cannot be difficult killing Assault Termies on foot... It just cant. Then you do something wrong, maybe charging a wrong unit at them? Or letting them charge stuff? Or horrible luck maybe...

I can only imagine that you have problems with them if you cannot kill their transport (Land raider), because then they will get the charge themselves with a full squad. Without that their helpless. Then its a slow, non-scoring, small unit. (albeit with good defense and high damage potential)

 

The rest of his list should also suffer, as a Land raider + termies = 450+ points. Same as our own Land Raider builds, you suffer in other areas. Exploit that!

[saintevil]

I have run into (and over) Mephiston twice. Good old Khorne Berzerkers and Khârn do the trick nicely!

 

But one of the guys in my club play 10 shooty termies and a termy librarian. A real pain in the warp cursed soft and squishies. It cost me a 10 man csm with 2 meltas, 3 oblits and 8man zerk squad to take them out!

 

I don't like oblits in cc, so I place them somewhat at the rear so they can plasma any potential incoming termies. The only problem is when above mentioned termy squad gate right next to your only long range unit, grin sheepishly and fire them into oblivion!

 

Vindies are nice if they manage to fire off a shot and put it in place. Otherwise, you have a expensive tank shocking unit blasting around the map, in vain hope of scaring something off the table!

 

Hope it helps.