Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 To me this seems like a no brainer based on the errata. Yet some people argue that Storm Caller does not give cover saves to vehicles. What do you think and what's the consensus in your gaming area on this matter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 They are wrong. Stormcaller bypasses the requirements for cover and outright grants a cover save to "units" within the area of effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2529880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Ramses has this one spot on. The only argument Ive ever seen otherwise is- wait for it- it gives them a cover save, but they cant use it because theyre not obscured. Of all the inane stupidity. Internet-fail. As if the BRB itself didnt have other occaisions where a vehicle was allowed a cover save right in the text. *sighs*. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphus Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Get naysayers to think about this: Your Rune priest is "Calling" a "Storm", a (harmless) blizzard of wind, rain, snow and smog. How would a vehicle not be obscured by that? Now imagine a '6 aura of this blizzard around your Rune Priest obscuring anything inside it. Anything friendly inside the aura is obscured by the storm and is given a 5+ Cover Save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 Yeah it makes sense to me, it is just that the naysayers are loud and obnoxious online so I wasn't sure if they were a fringe element or a significant minority of folks. inside it. Anything friendly inside the aura Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it anything touching the aura? Like if a quarter of a rhino is in the circle, it gets the save? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Yeah it makes sense to me, it is just that the naysayers are loud and obnoxious online so I wasn't sure if they were a fringe element or a significant minority of folks. inside it. Anything friendly inside the aura Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it anything touching the aura? Like if a quarter of a rhino is in the circle, it gets the save? Correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Some people still try to hold onto the BA power shield of Sanguinius not giving a save to vehicles even after the FAQ states it does. Those people are wrong. Storm Caller protects vehicles as long as any part of it is within the bubble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would a vehicle not be obscured by that because weather does not block LoS in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would a vehicle not be obscured by that because weather does not block LoS in the game. And smoke from smoke launchers does? What's the difference between smoke and a dense cloud/fog as far as visibility goes? There is no difference. Not that this argument is particularly convincing, considering how logic often leads to the wrong answer in 40k. Luckily the rule flat out says a cover save is given to all units in the zone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would a vehicle not be obscured by that because weather does not block LoS in the game. Stormcaller bypasses the requirements for cover and outright grants a cover save to "units" within the area of effect. Read the requirements for just a normal model to get a cover save. Not a vehicle, just an infantry model. Stormcaller does not even fulfill the requirements to give a normal model a cover save, but it bypasses those requirements, and outright grants a cover save to said models. It does the same with obscurement of vehicles. It bypasses the obscurement requirement and outright grants a cover save to the vehicle. The errata further enforces this by the change or wording to "units" to specifically include vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmurph Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Brother Ramses is spot on. The rules for vehicles normally require a vehicle to be obscured to gain a save. What the "no" crowd miss is that it is not exclusive and the power explicitly grants the save without being obscured. Indeed, in the rules there is another example of a save for extreme angle shots that does not require being obscured. For the same reason, a ward save would also work as the rules explain how to vehicles take a save, regardless of source. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 To me this seems like a no brainer based on the errata. Yet some people argue that Storm Caller does not give cover saves to vehicles. What do you think and what's the consensus in your gaming area on this matter? It was just men [squads] in the Codex, but the FAQ clearly writes units. ICs, squads and vehicles are all units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmellon Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Every friendly unit WITHIN six. Thats the whole unit. If a vehicle is a unit then there is the answer. If it is 5.99 inches away it is still within 6. Roll for cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal105 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Storm Caller. reads ‘he and all friendly units within 6" benefit from a 5+ cover save’ so there for a rhino being a unit gets the cover save if its in the 6" area Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Ok im settling this argument for you idiots with simple logic forget the fluff forget everything this is simple stop over thinking because your all hopped up on mountain dew. Ok lets try this is a vehicle a unit....... yes does storm caller read he and all friendly units within 6 inches gain a 5 plus cover save....... yes SO if units gain a cover save from the spell and tanks are units THEREFORE the tank gets a cover save....... not so hard and btw heres something to even blow your mind again. if you play teams your friends ALSO get the cover save because they are FRIENDLY..... k can we now kill this thread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would a vehicle not be obscured by that because weather does not block LoS in the game. And smoke from smoke launchers does? What's the difference between smoke and a dense cloud/fog as far as visibility goes? There is no difference. Not that this argument is particularly convincing, considering how logic often leads to the wrong answer in 40k. Luckily the rule flat out says a cover save is given to all units in the zone. Because real life logic does not equal the rules. Particularly in a game based of a world where space fungus is one of the biggest threats to life as we know it and the best answer to giant mutating space bugs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Ok im settling this argument for you idiots with simple logic forget the fluff forget everything this is simple stop over thinking because your all hopped up on mountain dew. Ok lets try this is a vehicle a unit....... yes does storm caller read he and all friendly units within 6 inches gain a 5 plus cover save....... yes SO if units gain a cover save from the spell and tanks are units THEREFORE the tank gets a cover save....... not so hard and btw heres something to even blow your mind again. if you play teams your friends ALSO get the cover save because they are FRIENDLY..... k can we now kill this thread *looks around at the others, incredulously* You're new around here eh Barbarian? Welcome to the B&C, may you enjoy and come to love its generally relaxed and thoughtful style. Sincerely, Marshal Wilhelm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 He is indeed new. So we forgive him for being a bit brusque.... Sometimes, we have to hash these things over several times to make sure everyone is on the same page AND can explain it to the people in their group. Because frankly, we could chew out the OP for his question, but that would just mean hed have no real answers to the stupid things his opponents were saying and would be less inclinded to ask any questions, or post at all, in the future. That helps no one, and leads to a sad, lonely, empty board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2530996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 He is indeed new. So we forgive him for being a douche.... Sometimes, we have to hash these things over several times to make sure everyone is on the same page AND can explain it to the people in their group. Because frankly, we could chew out the OP for his question, but that would just mean hed have no real answers to the stupid things his opponents were saying and would be less inclinded to ask any questions, or post at all, in the future. That helps no one, and leads to a sad, lonely, empty board. Fixed! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 In some cases you cant be to hash, and it saves me the trouble of bringing it this way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Does being in the strom coun't you ask being in cover as far as assualting or does it just grant a cover save without being in cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 It just grants the save. The old version, from our 3rd edition codex, counted one as being in cover and sparked all sorts of rules debates as the years went by. The simpler version is somewhat better all around in my opinion, now that we have options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Does being in the strom coun't you ask being in cover as far as assualting or does it just grant a cover save without being in cover. No it does not. For it to count as assaulting into cover, Stormcaller would have to force a difficult or dangerous terrain test. It does neither. It provides a cover save outright, as mentioned, without fulfilling the requirements of cover, as mentioned, which would normally force a difficult or dangerous terrain test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 not so hard and btw heres something to even blow your mind again. if you play teams your friends ALSO get the cover save because they are FRIENDLY..... Is this correct? I thought that they had ruled that "friendly" still had to be an element of "your" army (ie allies forces). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 not so hard and btw heres something to even blow your mind again. if you play teams your friends ALSO get the cover save because they are FRIENDLY..... Is this correct? I thought that they had ruled that "friendly" still had to be an element of "your" army (ie allies forces). Not to my knowledge. Its a common house rule however, particularly in apocalypse where things can get a bit.... silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212658-consensus-on-storm-caller-and-vehicles/#findComment-2531460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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