Deathwatch --> Space Wolf "counts as" Army

[MRC(+)]

I have been interested in a Deathwatch Army for some time now, pretty much since I read the DW Kill-Team rules online quite a while back. I have seen threads in other forums talking about this and the most common suggested solution is to use Sternguard (with Pedro) and Scouts to serve as the core of a Deathwatch "counts as" army and go from there.

 

While that idea has some merit, I have been thinking more and more about using Space Wolves rules to proxy a Deathwatch Army.... specifically, using Loganwing and Wolf Guard troops as the core. The reason for this is the versatility that Wolf Guard offer in terms of gear selection... every single pack can be uniquely equipped and even every single member of each squad can be unique, which in my mind fits well with the Death Watch playstyle (i.e. a commando force of small, unique, highly individuallized squads drawn from multiple chapters).

 

Another reason I see Space Wolves as a good potential "counts as" Codex to use for a Deathwatch Army is that you can field a pretty competitive army using only drop pods and footsloggers (maybe a few Land Speeders thrown in) to fit in with the Deathwatch style of not using heavy armored support. Wolf Scouts, Long Fangs, Lone Wolves, and Space Wolf Heroes all together can make a very effective force, pound for pound, even if you don't take any Rhinos/Razorbacks/Land Raiders, etc.

 

Finally, Space Wolf special rules (i.e. Counterattack and Acute Senses, plus the rules for their Special Characters... i.e. Wolf Priest Oath of War, Rune Priest powers, etc.) I think fit well with the Deathwatch fluff and also can still make for a competitive army.

 

One of the major drawbacks of using SW as Deathwatch is that no unit has access to "special ammuntion," which Deathwatch usually has... that said, the ability to give as many Wolf Guard as you want Combi-Weapons can somewhat make up for that.

 

 

Anyway, my initial thoughts, but what do you all think? Is this a viable concept, or am I missing something here?

 

Thanks for your input.

[Snorri Goresson]

im not a fan of "counts as" armys

 

they always seem to want to use the newest rule set, so in the cast SW or BA

 

if i was going to run a deathwatch army id use C:SM

 

reasons

 

1. you get sternguard, which are as close to deathwatch as we are ever going to get in a codex

2. the squad/ strike force is made up of mixed chapters, not all of these will fight like a space wolf or blood angel

3. you can make some cool armys from C:SM

 

but thats just me

 

Snorri

[Wysten]

Agreed, sternguard is the best fit, they can quite easily be the death watch in a way no other chapter can. (BA because it's a poor repersentation of mixed marines, space wolves are alright, but the lack of special ammo makes them considerably less effective at the shooty elite role.) While generally I don't really mind, I don't think any other codex does Deathwatch as well as marines.

 

Only issue would be you would have to run tacticals, but space marines are simply the most professional feeling of chapters like the deathwatch would be, picking their engagements and using combat tactics to pick their ground rather then the reckless bravdo of the space wolves, the stuborn fail of DA and the angry marine feel to the BA.

 

Feel free to use any Codex, but the Codex Marines is the best candidate for shooty deathwatch marines. Codex Marines has pretty much all the same tools, including scouts with homing locators for droppods, Bikers for highly mobile shooty units. Labians for teleporting shooting sternguard. Codex Marines are the best for those kind of armies.

[slmellon]

And doesnt Kantor give sternguard counts as troops? Wouldnt that take care of the OBJ part of the game. Plus they have the special rounds, as previously stated.

[Skirax]

And doesnt Kantor give sternguard counts as troops? Wouldnt that take care of the OBJ part of the game. Plus they have the special rounds, as previously stated.

He makes them Scoring, not Troops.

[Aramis_the_Red]

And doesnt Kantor give sternguard counts as troops? Wouldnt that take care of the OBJ part of the game. Plus they have the special rounds, as previously stated.

 

Kantor makes sternguard count as scoring, not troops. They are still an elites choice. I actually see no point in Kantor, I already have to take 2 troops anyways, and they can cover my scoring. The way you win games is making sure you claim one objective and contest the rest, and having more than 2 scoring units doesn't help you that much in that regard. In say a 4 objective game, claiming 1 and contesting 3 is the same thing as claiming 4... you still won.

 

-A

 

P.S. I must agree, if you're planning to play a deathwatch army, play C:SM.

[ItchiBuh]

The only way I see Space Wolves use as Death Watch (if you HAD to do it), would be with Logan as HQ (Count as Inquisitor) and the Wold Guards as troops. They get option to get custom load out and have stats closer to what Death Watch would have.

 

That being said, I would go for Codex: SM, use scouts for troops (call the inquisitional storm troopers), then sternguards as all the Death Watch members and either a Librarian or a Captain as HQ.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Rune

[JaqTaar]

After reading the Deathwatch RPG I too have had the idea of a DW army using the Space Wolves Codex. This is mostly because in my eyes the Space Marine Codex makes for a rather bland army, except for the Stern- and Vanguard. And because of units or rather concepts that are not possible to field with the Space Marine Codex.

 

The RPG mentions the DW making use of bikes as well as Terminator and Scout armour. All of which are of course present in the regular Marine Codex, but without any of the flavour the Wolf Guard offers and in the case of Scouts without the appropriate WS and BS.

 

It also describes the so-called Black Shields, which are Marines that present themselves to the DW without any chapter markings (and who might be the last survivors/loyalists of a destroyed/renegade chapter or Marines exiled from their chapter; one of them is hinted at being one of the DA Fallen). These are usually accepted into service without questions about their past being asked and many of them seek death in battle. These would work very well as Lone Wolves.

[Spacefrisian]

Fluffwise... NO

 

Deathwatch teleport in and GW made it clear the Spacewolves dont do such fancy stuff.

[DapperDave]

Fluffwise... NO

 

Deathwatch teleport in and GW made it clear the Spacewolves dont do such fancy stuff.

 

I'm not sure you understand what the OP means by counts as... @.@

 

Anyways, to the OP:

 

I'm going to disagree with the majority of the folks here and tell you to go for it:

 

Here's why:

 

1) It's your cash, time, and plastic - do what you want with it. If you're inspired by the idea, follow it.

 

2) I actually really like the idea of an inquisitor in terminator armor as a counts as Logan. Fluff wise, he could be a gifted support psyker with a daemon / xenotech weapon or some such (wonderful thing about 40k fluff - literally anything is possible).

 

3) Wolfguard and Sternguard are very close to each other in terms of flexibility and "elite-ness" - except wolfguard have the bonus of also counting as troops (not just scoring) in an army with Logan.

 

4) This would be a very unique army - and while some people might balk at the idea of an entire deathwatch army... I'd kindly refer them to my point in #2 - Also, it's just a game and they really should relax...(for mystery science theater 40,000...)

[Growler67]

In doing my research for a fan fiction I am writing, The Deathwatch is a varied and interesting element of the Imperium. I would say to be as close as is available to a Codex Army, go with C:SM. That is not to say you cannot sprinkle in a few or several Space Wolves into your squads. The means and practices of the Deathwatch for acquiring its personnel are also varied. As they are a small faction by comparison to the rest of the Astartes, I cannot envision a whole Army.

 

My research to date has them splintered off into smaller sized elements and scattered about to Watch Stations and Watch Fortresses and such. Outposts and not "Homeworlds" in the technical sense. The Deathwatch is the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos. I equate them to fill the same/similar role as the SoB for the Ordo Hereticus or the Grey Kights of the Ordo Malleus. However, those other orders have a "homebase" and I've not found anything yet that leads me to believe the Deathwatch has such. They are the specialists in Xenowarfare. That is not to say they will not assist the other Ordos from time to time.

 

If you REALLY want a truly varied ARMY, I would suggest you mix a GK or SoB force in substantial numbers and add a couple/few Deathwatch killteams. Not a terribly practical means of gaming, but the modelling and painting would look TREMENDOUS :rolleyes:

 

Sorry for the tangent, back on topic. My opinion is in agreement with several others and to be most faithful to the fluff and intent of the Deathwatch, C:SM would be the way to go, IMO. The Sons of Fenris that find themselves serving in the Deathwatch still retain their talismans, trinkets and pelts, but their armor is Deathwatch black with the exception of the Left arm and shoulder. The left arm is silver and the pauldron is that of the Deathwatch. The left pauldron indicating ones home chapter/Company is placed on the right side. On looks alone, it would appear that everyone is a Wolf Priest or Black Templar to the uneducated eye.

[DapperDave]

Ok... since there's now several posts that seem to miss the point of the OP's question entirely... let's be clear - He's talking about using the Space Wolves codex rules to represent a large deathwatch force... not making a space wolves army that is entirely in the deathwatch.

 

I also really don't understand how the rules from C:SM "fit closer" to deathwatch than C:SW... I guarantee you can make up any reasonable sounding fluff to explain the unique rules on either side weither it be Sternguard's special ammo or Space Wolves' Counter-attack... I really don't see the difference.

[Stormshrug]

I've considered the same myself, since Loganwing gives you extremely customizable marines as Troops in a way that even Sternguard/Vanguard don't. You could always use an attachment from Demon/Witchhunters to get an Inquisitor and some Inq. Stormtroopers.

 

-Stormshrug

[Sarapham]

Ok... since there's now several posts that seem to miss the point of the OP's question entirely... let's be clear - He's talking about using the Space Wolves codex rules to represent a large deathwatch force... not making a space wolves army that is entirely in the deathwatch.

 

I also really don't understand how the rules from C:SM "fit closer" to deathwatch than C:SW... I guarantee you can make up any reasonable sounding fluff to explain the unique rules on either side weither it be Sternguard's special ammo or Space Wolves' Counter-attack... I really don't see the difference.

 

The thing is that the special ammo used by Stern Guard is almost completely copied from the small online list you can use to make a deathwatch squad officially. In a way they are the spiritual decendants of that idea.

[nurglez]

the other thing is that in order to make a legal army, you will still need to have 2 troop choices, so scouts? or marines without special ammo, you are also limited to only taking 3 squads of sternguard, sure they can combat squad but, I dunno, maybe the OP wants to have some options to customise his squads?

 

I think loads of wg could work as death watch count as.

 

I say do what you want regarding this game, as long as things are wysiwyg I really dont care what people do with their squads/armies :P

[JaqTaar]

2) I actually really like the idea of an inquisitor in terminator armor as a counts as Logan. Fluff wise, he could be a gifted support psyker with a daemon / xenotech weapon or some such (wonderful thing about 40k fluff - literally anything is possible).

No need for anything that fancy actually. He could simply be a Watch Commander. In the DW RPG they are the "supervisors" of several kill-teams each and some of them had been Chapter Masters.

the other thing is that in order to make a legal army, you will still need to have 2 troop choices, so scouts? or marines without special ammo, you are also limited to only taking 3 squads of sternguard

For such an army it is usually suggested to have Scouts represent Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (possibly enhanced to explain the higher S and T).

As they are a small faction by comparison to the rest of the Astartes, I cannot envision a whole Army.

Sometimes 2-3 kill-teams are deployed at the same time. That would be around two dozen Marines. 2-3 units of Sternguard or Wolf Guard would fit that.

The Eisenhorn novel Xenos even has a battle in which 60 (!) DW Marines took part (alongside a couple of regiments of Imperial Guard though).

[Niiai]

It sounds really cool. I am having troubel seing a lott of mech, so perhaps do some drop pod lists? The cool part is that you would be abel to combine parts from all the marine boxes. Dark Angel, Blood Angel, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Dark Templars. You could even toss up some red scorpions and custom build some storm wardens. :lol: