Swift Claw Bikers

[Wildfire]

The second set up is especially useful if you have won the die roll for first turn and are setting up first. Deploy your bikers all alone on the far flank. Many times your opponent will place several units on this side of the board in an effort to respond to your deployment.

If he responds like this, then you simply turbo boost along your own board edge and use this movement to get your bikers back with the rest of your force.

 

If he does not place units in response to your deployment, then this changes things as you can run up the flank.

 

This has always been my favorite thing to do with fast units.

[DGC]

Superb tatica littlbitz.

 

I have a Wolf Priest and a WGBL with frost axe already modeled on bikes plus two attack bikes with magnetised weapons all painted up which I use to use with great effect until the rules changed. Since then they haven't seen any action as I never finished building any bikes to go with them. Slowly I have built three up, strangely one with powerfist and one with magnatised assault weapons but haven't had the impetus to finish them off - still painting up my longfangs, but this topic is really appealing to me as I run a mech list anyway.

 

I will be following this with a lot of interest - and many thanks for taking the time to putting together such a well presented article

 

DGC

[littlbitz]

I'm really glad you are all enjoying the thread.

 

Before I go into the "General Tips" section, I should mention using the Swift Claw Bikers in more of a support role.

 

Because of their speed, they are actually really good when used in this fashion.

 

The idea here is that the Bikers are used as a "second wave" of sorts behind your infantry. This is a useful tactic in KP missions against armies that specialize in close assault.

 

I will set up with a strong point using the bulk of my army, the Bikers will either be on a flank or behind the main force, out of harms way.

 

As the bulk of my force Shoots at the enemy, or advances as necessary, the bikers move along the flanks and rear of my army, turbo boosting to stay safe, or even draw a little fire from the main force if needed.

 

The trick here is to always move fast, and try and stay within 18" of the main body of your army so you can properly support them, when they are needed.

 

There will be times when you wont be able to turbo-boost, or when you see an opportunity to take advantage of positioning in order to apply the significant firepower of your Bikers, don't be afraid to do this. With proper spacing of the lead element, your Bikers will be able to position themselves behind a GH or BC pack.

The Twin-linked Bolters give the Blood Claw bikers a significant advantage over the regular packs, and more than compensates for the poor WS.

[littlbitz]

Here are a few general tips for Swift Claw Bikers.

 

1. I consider the Attackbike in the pack a must have (already mentioned but worth stating again)

2. Ditto on the Pack Leader

3. Don't be afraid to shoot into a unit before assaulting it (though some care must be taken here), things like Huge Ork mobs, and full Marine squads will rarely lose enough models to cause you to lose assault range.

4. Turbo-boosting is your friend

5. Learn to judge distances. A common mistake is to turbo-boost up a flank and place yourself in assault range of the enemy, be wary of this, and do your best not to become the victim of an assault.

6. Patience must be utilized when using bikes, don't just throw them into the fray, use their speed to find a weak spot in your opponents force, then strike there.

7. Don't be afraid to change your plan, you have the speed to shift the battle field

 

I can't tell you how many times I've read a list, or a Tactica on Army Building techniques that talk about a unit "getting its points back". The theory being that a unit is only good if it destroys more than it costs.

 

I guess at times you can use this as a guage of sorts when designing an army, but I think the more important question should be "what is the units role in the army?"

 

While this is a "Wargame" its not always about destroying all of your opponents force (Ok, so 1 out of the 3 basic missions is about that) typically in any type of Tournament play, KPs and Victory points end up being secondary or tertiary objectives, the primary mission being to take and hold some type of objective, or to get into your opponents deployment zone.

 

When I am designing my lists, I like to look at 3 things:

1. Mobility

2. Counter-Mobility

3. Survivability

(Any of you Combat Engineers out there should recognize these ^_^ )

 

These 3 can be applied and discussed for any unit, but for the purposes of this thread (in my next entry), I will discuss them as they relate to Swift Claw Bikers (and ICs on Bikes).

[Wildfire]

You're certainly an early riser, bitz!

 

I can't tell you how many times I've read a list, or a Tactica on Army Building techniques that talk about a unit "getting its points back". The theory being that a unit is only good if it destroys more than it costs.

 

I couldn't agree more. More often than not, I see 20% of an army doing 80% of the killing. The rest of the army is there to run interference for that 20%. The secret to the success of balanced armies is that the 20% that does the majority of the killing changes from game to game with the weaknesses of the opponent.

 

Which is not to say one will always win with a perfectly balanced army. Skewing an army toward one specialty or another enhances the RPS factor of the game. Yes, that static shooty army might do very well against a horde assualt list, but you may have problems against an opponent using a fast assualt strategy. Etc, etc, etc. I believe this is why so many of the best players tend to take reasonably balanced lists. It evens the playing field more, so that their skill will have a greater effect.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Fantastic stuff Littlbitz. This should be made a sticky thread :)

 

Terrain is always a difficult one for me. Because you have to do a dangerous ground test whenever you go through cover, I avoid it even when it would be really advantageous (for turboboosting for instance). I'm too worried about losing wounds through my own actions. How do you treat that issue Bitz?

[littlbitz]

Terrain can definitely cause some problems, there are time however that I try to use it to my advantage.

 

On occasion I try to place my Bikers and a Target between terrain, my opponent, thinking his unit safe will get close. I will then move my Bikers around the terrain to shoot, and break my IC away from the unit and go through the terrain, with his skilled rider rule, it is much less likely that he will take a wound.

 

Be aware however, that you cannot Turbo-boost through difficult terrain.

 

Then there are those occasion when you just have to assault into cover. Typically I just do it, and hope for the best. Though, there was that time I did that and rolled 4 Ones!!! :)

 

Oh, I almost forgot. I should have put this in the "tips" post.

 

Lets call it Rule #8: When running the flanks always be wary of your opponents Out flanking units. Again, a common sense thing, but it is frequently over looked.

[MRC(+)]

Excellent tactrica, very informative.... might try to integrate Bikers into my list now.

 

One question... how does your IC get Skilled Rider?

[Hear da Lamentation]

It's difficult to find, but all IC have skilled rider, it is in the section describing ICs.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I played the Nids recently (this is my usual opponent) and had an interesting time with the bikers.

 

Biker pack is as follows

 

Lord Magnus’ Swiftclaws

Lord Magnus. Runic armour, stormshield, thunderhammer, wolf tooth talisman, saga of the bear

3 bikers

1 wolf guard biker powerfist, combimelta

attackbike - heavy bolter

 

 

The game was spearhead with 2 objectives (both at either end of the board). He had a tyrvigon which meant he would be pooing out massive amounts of troops to cover his objective - he also had a Hive Tyrant Deathstar unit.

 

I kept 2 units of LF and 2 rhinos full of GH around my objective as both bait for the Deathstar and a really really solid defence - and placed one rhino on the flank to support the bikers coming in reserve (with the intention of pulling a flanking maneuver - keep away from that deathstar and hit some of his squishier xenonthropes and Hive Guard, which could pop my rides). This worked well and I found the rhino GH squad performed well as back up to the bikers (especially with the RP in it. I find these 2 work well together as a strike force). However, after a large shooting round which saw both the bikers and the GH do well against the xenonthropes (killing 2 out of 3) I charged the biker unit into combat against them and a carnoflex which was close by. He had about 18 Devil gaunts with assault 3 weapons just behind this group and I didn't want to win against just the remaining xenonthope only to find them all shoot me AND then the Carboflex assault me afterwards.

 

This worked well(ish.) The bikers "normal" attacks killed the remaining xenonthrope. Then the carnoflex attacked at the same time as my fists / thunderhammer. He chose to attack the bikers rather than the lord .... and killed 4 out of 5 of them in one go ! My Lord went next and awesomely he slew the beast with just his attacks. Great - I took out 3 xenontrhopes and a nasty carnoflex for the cost of 4 bikers (soon to be 5 when the devil gaunts opened fire) - the lord survivied to win the game for me after turboing over to their objective.

 

However, this certainly showed me that against foes ignorning saves, the bikers are very vulnerable because of their low numbers. Having said that I now wonder whether 2 powerfists (one on guard, one on normal guy) are worth it? Really it looks like these guys should be avoiding Monstrous Creatures, so wouldn't I be better having another biker (which is almost the same price as the fist). Does the extra wound, attacks and shooting outweigh the fist?

 

What do you think?

 

(I came away from that fight happy with the bikers - especially the Lord. I had Littlbitz's Yoda style voice in my head saying "trust in your BikerLord" .... and he certainly didnt let me down. However, the bikers themselves only lasted 1 round and were quickly despatched.)

[littlbitz]

:) I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. That Lord load out rarely fails me.

 

I really think that your "fist vs. another biker" concerns are really a matter of personal preference, and the lists you normally face in your own gaming group.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Interesting read. When you started writing this, I had quite a few things to say on why you shouldn't use Swiftclaws. I am glad I dropped my imperious post. Even if I accurately describe the half-empty side of them, they still have a half-full side too. Hmmm.

 

Anyway. I have some nice things to say :angry: even if I might reiterate things said before :yes:

 

The Lord with Saga of the Bear is a great catcher of krak and the like weapons. His Storm shield and Runic armour may well ignore them and the SoB gives some insurance.

 

The Attack Bike is a good thing. How about bumping it up to a MM? [or did I gloss over that part?]

This runs with the idea of the combi-Melta gun for the Wolf Guard [who doesn't get more attacks for keeping his bolt pistol]

If you can open the transport with your shooting, you are giving the Swiftclaws a chance to assault infantry, which is what you want. 2 bs3 Melta weapons and the combi will be a good thing.

 

The melta weapons are handy against all heavy infantry from Sang Guard [whose equal initiative power weapons are painful] to Nobz [insta kills] to Death Company [ignoring armour & FNP].

What do you think?

 

Also the TWC comparison.

TWC are great, no doubts about it. However, people run 5 of them and they cost up to 350 pts. If you made a similarly expensive unit of Swiftclaws, would they be able to compete?

 

Wolf Guard - 78

PF, combi Mg, Bike

8 Swift claws - 235

Mg, PF

Attack Bike - 40

MM

 

353 points.

 

6 normal SC: 6 x 4 = 24

Mg: 3

Attack Bike: 4

= 31 normal attacks

6 PF attacks.

 

The Bikes can also do something with shooting at up to 24" away, and against Fearless foes can blaze away with no restraint before charging in. They don't have that 19-24" charge range, but if TWC can't actually charge something, they are stuck with 7-12" of movement, whilst the SC can go 24"

Or is the lack of wound allocation AND being able to absorb a wound per TWC the real separation between the two units?

What do you think?

Have you tried using the Swiftclaws as a Deathstar unit, littlbitz?

 

I think the Lord would need to join them, to mitigate krak missiles and bring another 4 s8 attacks....

[littlbitz]

Your post is funny Marshal Wilhelm, not in a bad way, but in that many of your thoughts are some of my more recent after-thoughts to list changes after the Mechanicon GT I played in.

 

I have seriously been considering swapping out my 2 smaller Swift Claw packs for one larger one with all the bells and whistles.

 

In addition to the Lord, I was also considering a Wolf Priest, to truly make it a "Death Star" type unit.

 

I will post more on this after I get the last Battle report from the Mechanicon up.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I've played with the MM a little (but not with the combi melta, which I think was a mistake). I think the shooting abilities of the bikers are great. Twin linked more than makes up for BS3 and with their 12" initial move, being within rapid fire range is relatively easy to do. The 12" move and single shot gives them a 36" range for a decent number of shots.

 

Interesting stuff from you Littlbitz, I know you've said how much you like 2 packs ... looking forward to hearing more.

[CainTheHunter]

Interesting thoughts.... Actually, this is provoking me to take my bikers from the shelf where they are collecting dust and give them a try. I was running two big packs with Wulfen Lord and retinue under old 13th Company rules and a smaller one with anti-tank loadout. Of course no attack bikes then, but being all Storm Claws they had 2 profile attacks, WS 4 etc. Looking at the Swiftclaw stats I was first not very much impressed with then, but things tend to change with time.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Good stuff bitz, thanks for taking the time to put it on (virtual) paper.

 

As a consistent bike + wolf priest user in 5th ed, Im currently experimenting with my wolfguard pack leader loadouts - I have historically gone for powerfists (or hammers) and combi-meltas but am slowly being persuaded more and more into trying frost blades. I will add my two cents worth if anything comes of it!

 

I would strongly echo your tip about outflankers - you only let genestealers get you the once B)

[littlbitz]

Well HDL, the main reason I was thinking of switching to one larger pack for awhile is because I am currently running the Thunder Lord and the IP on Thunder Wolf in addition to the 2 Biker Packs.

 

I think I can do it with one pack of each (meaning the one Swift Claw pack and the 2 Thunder Wolves), though its going to change many things about the way I currently use them. The larger foot print, will mean they are going to be more difficult to keep out of the line of fire, but the Wolf Priest giving the unit "fearless" will be huge.

 

I will also be able to break the lord off with more confidence in the Swift Claw pack to perform their mission, with more numbers and the Wolf priest in the pack.

[OnlyInDeath]

I love the idea of a WP, plus the mega lord on bike, plus the WG led larger bike pack; the reason being the ability to tie up such a large part of an opponent's force. This unit has the potential to break open any mega unit you may find on the board in a given tourney (and lets face it, you'll find plenty out there), but it also has the potential to swamp a squishy horde army. With the ability to break off a potential two IC's from the unit, you can tie up at least 3 of your opponent's units (a savvy charge against two closely placed units means your claws can easily hit two units if you have 4 bikers, an AB and a WG on a bike). The potential to shut down the core of a squishy army to allow the rest of your forces to maneuver and even join in the fight cannot be ignored.

 

The downside that I see for this is the fact that your WP, if broken off, doesn't pack the punch that he used to when alone in combat. Most likely, unless against a WS3, str3 foe (1 attack each, hitting on 4, wounding on 6 really whittles down the attacks getting through), the WP would go down. So against tougher opponents like orks and marines, it would be a pointless plan. But against IG or certain nids, eldar guardians, or other units which are just waiting for their bretheren to be slaughtered so they can open up all hell on you, this would be a valuable assist from an otherwise redundant model in the larger pack against such squishy targets.

 

I may have to begin conversions for a WP on a bike...

 

What would your thoughts be on the larger unit? 4 bikers, WG, AB, WP, Lord? Would it just get too cumbersome with anything bigger? or do you need another body considering the attention this unit will draw?

[Void Master]

The "larger" unit you mention OnlyInDeath is what I run 2 of. It's beautiful. The size (6 bikes in one unit, 7 in the other) means that if I play it well, I can tie up a good part of a gun like which will allow my mechanized units to advance in relative safety.

 

Thing is, any larger and they get dreadfully hard to handle, because they're basically "everywhere" with their footprint, making it very hard to avoid units you don't want to face without having to go through terrain (and a larger unit then means you potentially lose more models due to trees that refuse to move out the way), or getting close to something else you also don't want to fight (i.e. most dark eldar CC units).

 

Bikers are also by no means a "proper" death star - last tournament, I played against a tyranid player who had a unit of "whateverthey'recalleds" basically with 5 attacks on the charge, WS5, I5 and rending. Pity is I wasn't aware that they only have a 5+ save. But essentially, if they get close, they'll rip you apart. Even the biker lord. Plus they have a 12" charge range, so are tough to avoid completely with your whole army. Good thing there is that the biker's speed should allow you to at least get 2 rounds of shooting off.

 

Moral of the story - if you ask me, you still have to pick your fights carefully, even when using the wolf lord on bike.

 

I'm thinking of running a WGBL with warrior born and 2 claws with the other unit of bikers though. Any thoughts or experiences on/with that, littlbiz? I hope I didn't miss you commenting on this earlier.

 

What I'm thinking is that I can pretty much let this guy go after hordes or gunlines all by himself (namely, try to tie up 2 units, 1 with the WGBL and 1 with the biker pack, so the unit stays in combat during my opponent's turn) and he'll be just fine, and getting more dangerous by the minute. Plus, no matter how I put it, claws just seem the most convenient weapon to have while riding a bike. Although I'm having trouble picturing the guy riding his bike with those massive gauntlets so from a "realistic" point of view it probably doesn't make much sense.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

The downside that I see for this is the fact that your WP, if broken off, doesn't pack the punch that he used to when alone in combat. Most likely, unless against a WS3, str3 foe (1 attack each, hitting on 4, wounding on 6 really whittles down the attacks getting through), the WP would go down. So against tougher opponents like orks and marines, it would be a pointless plan. But against IG or certain nids, eldar guardians, or other units which are just waiting for their bretheren to be slaughtered so they can open up all hell on you, this would be a valuable assist from an otherwise redundant model in the larger pack against such squishy targets.

I know exactly what you mean... However:

 

Saga of the warrior born - I regularly use my wolf priest and swiftclaw together in the initial charge but can then split him off once he has 'built up' a few extra (re-rollable) attacks over a couple of combat phases - quite hard to pull off, but you look like a legend if you do ;) Runic armour helps too, but the sheer casualties you can cause by splitting ICs off in this way can often outway the potential loss, as littlbitz has well described above.

[Ullr Direfang]

I have to say great job littlbitz. I know I have been in and out of the fang lately, but catching this is great. I have always tried to include my Swiftclaws in. And agree with much of what you say. Unfortunatly for me I don't have an attack bike yet :) but will get one soon I am sure. In my area people tend to under think any form of Bloodclaw, which often is quickly changed once my smallish ( 3 or 4 on average) unit rips through a unit or two. I haven't made a HQ on bike yet but plan to go Lord, and have to say your recommandations help me think of how to kit him out.

[Nightrunner]

Hi guys,

 

@ littlbitz... Now that the FAQ has stated that the Stealth USR gives EVERYONE in a unit the +1 to cover saves, not just the guy with it, for a few points (and if you ARE considering running a single large squad with a Wolf Priest) I would recommend this little upgrade to make you all but immune to shooting the turn before you get stuck in. :tu:

 

NR :)

[Sarapham]

Hi guys,

 

@ littlbitz... Now that the FAQ has stated that the Stealth USR gives EVERYONE in a unit the +1 to cover saves, not just the guy with it, for a few points (and if you ARE considering running a single large squad with a Wolf Priest) I would recommend this little upgrade to make you all but immune to shooting the turn before you get stuck in. :tu:

 

NR :)

 

Except you cant give saga of the hunter to a HQ on a bike, jump pack or thunderwolf.

[Nightrunner]

Except you cant give saga of the hunter to a HQ on a bike, jump pack or thunderwolf.

 

Thanks man. I knew I was missing something!

 

Back to the thinking corner for me...

 

NR :)

[Sarapham]

Except you cant give saga of the hunter to a HQ on a bike, jump pack or thunderwolf.

 

Thanks man. I knew I was missing something!

 

Back to the thinking corner for me...

 

NR :)

 

It was too good to be true :tu: