Swift Claw Bikers

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Bikers are also by no means a "proper" death star - last tournament, I played against a tyranid player who had a unit of "whateverthey'recalleds" basically with 5 attacks on the charge, WS5, I5 and rending. Pity is I wasn't aware that they only have a 5+ save. But essentially, if they get close, they'll rip you apart. Even the biker lord. Plus they have a 12" charge range, so are tough to avoid completely with your whole army. Good thing there is that the biker's speed should allow you to at least get 2 rounds of shooting off.

 

Moral of the story - if you ask me, you still have to pick your fights carefully, even when using the wolf lord on bike.

 

Raveners are the Warriors/snakes guys, and rending means they cost 35 points.

t4 w3 sv5+

 

They die to bolters, krak missiles and melta guns B)

 

18 bolter shots. 12 hit. 6 wound. 2 dead - 70 pts gone. Compare that with 6 dead Boyz at just about half that price ;)

 

They are no push overs, but knowledge is power. As you said, you got caught out by not knowing the full story.

 

A s8 PF is popping one per wound.

Tank-shock them outside of Synapse range, they only have Ld6.

 

7 Greys & 3 Raveners [with rending].

15 attacks. 10 hit. 3.3 wounds & 1.7 rends = 2.8 dead Marines.

 

7 shots. 4.7 hit. 2.3 wound. 0.8 dead Marines

21 attacks. 10.5 hit. 5.25 wound. 1.75 dead Marines

= 2.55 dead Marines

 

What I am trying to show is that although the Raveners are solid [and will do their killing before Marines do, which is big] they are not much killier than Greys. Rhinos will scupper them.

 

Cast Murderous Hurricane on them to slow them down. From the safety of a Rhino of course. Shadow in the Warp is only 12" range from a creature that has that special rule. You should be able to get it off on the forwards located Raveners.

 

The old rule of attack one unit with more than its points worth of yours, is always a good maxim. ;)

[Void Master]

Helps to know your enemy, true that. I was playing eldar that time, so one bladestorm would have wiped most of the unit off the board. Good to know they're not that tough, after all ;) Thanks for the heads up.

 

The odds of blood claws against the raveners should work out even better, especially if I concentrate fire with both packs and then assault there shouldn't be much left.

 

The old rule of attack one unit with more than its points worth of yours, is always a good maxim.

 

Yep, that's the thing I build most of my plans on, and for that objective, mobility is ace because it just makes this objective so much easier to achieve. And that's where the bikers come in very handy indeed.

[Hear da Lamentation]

The old rule of attack one unit with more than its points worth of yours, is always a good maxim.

 

 

Yep, that's the thing I build most of my plans on, and for that objective, mobility is ace because it just makes this objective so much easier to achieve. And that's where the bikers come in very handy indeed.

 

This is the way I see it too. The ability to have an extremely mobile cc unit with great shooting allows you to concentrate your attacks more easily.

[TiguriusX]

I'm thinking of running a WGBL with warrior born and 2 claws with the other unit of bikers though. Any thoughts or experiences on/with that, littlbiz?

You are paying 20 pts for A+1

 

If you upgrade to WL instead you get A+1 and WS, W and LD as a bonus for only 10pts more

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The old rule of attack one unit with more than its points worth of yours, is always a good maxim.

 

 

Yep, that's the thing I build most of my plans on, and for that objective, mobility is ace because it just makes this objective so much easier to achieve. And that's where the bikers come in very handy indeed.

 

This is the way I see it too. The ability to have an extremely mobile cc unit with great shooting allows you to concentrate your attacks more easily.

 

Mmmm.

So I'm thinking, not so much that you must use your bikes to spearhead your attack, but to be able to sandwich your foe with them against your other unit [let's say Grey Hunters]

Use the speed to get 2-1 situations [points wise, more than numbers wise] rather than haring off trying to engage the enemy prematurely.

 

You could do that without the expensive Lord. Just a Wolf Guard to keep those Blood Claws shooting and double team.

Maybe a peek-a-boo around the Greys Rhino?

[Void Master]

You are paying 20 pts for A+1

 

If you upgrade to WL instead you get A+1 and WS, W and LD as a bonus for only 10pts more

 

True, that. A storm shield would probably be a much better investment. At the moment I'm only using one HQ on bike to lead one of my swiftclaw packs, the other one is just led by a wolf guard on bike at the moment. But said HQ is a wolf lord already. Tanking a second wolf lord would make little sense from a fluff perspective so it'd have to be a WGBL either way. Maybe one with power fist instead of the wolf guard currently leading the pack. More power fist attacks at higher WS are never a bad thing methinks...

[Wysten]

You are paying 20 pts for A+1

 

If you upgrade to WL instead you get A+1 and WS, W and LD as a bonus for only 10pts more

 

True, that. A storm shield would probably be a much better investment. At the moment I'm only using one HQ on bike to lead one of my swiftclaw packs, the other one is just led by a wolf guard on bike at the moment. But said HQ is a wolf lord already. Tanking a second wolf lord would make little sense from a fluff perspective so it'd have to be a WGBL either way. Maybe one with power fist instead of the wolf guard currently leading the pack. More power fist attacks at higher WS are never a bad thing methinks...

 

Just because they are called wolf lords, don't mean they have to be treated as such. I imagine there would be a handful of wolf guard that, at any one time, is actually Wolf Lord material, the cream of the ale so to speak. The potencial is there, but until then the big guy is in charge and few honest men would dare challange him over it, unless for good reason.

[Natanael]

Yeah. I think that many WLs would have a "personal champion" of sorts, like Arjac is Grimnars, that is more then able to kick some real butt, much like the WL himself. In game terms, that guy would have similar stats to the WL himself, I figure.

 

- Natanael

[Hear da Lamentation]

Mmmm.

So I'm thinking, not so much that you must use your bikes to spearhead your attack, but to be able to sandwich your foe with them against your other unit [let's say Grey Hunters]

Use the speed to get 2-1 situations [points wise, more than numbers wise] rather than haring off trying to engage the enemy prematurely.

 

You could do that without the expensive Lord. Just a Wolf Guard to keep those Blood Claws shooting and double team.

Maybe a peek-a-boo around the Greys Rhino?

 

By his batreps it seems Littlbitz often plays the lord breaking off when close to cc - and he goes for something on his own (and this has been the way I have played it the last few times to good success). He is truly awesome with saga of the bear and 2+ 3++ T5 with all those thunderhammer attacks. That's why you have to have the wolf guard in the pack as well, to keep those young bloodclaws in check once the lord leaves.

 

Also remember that with all melta bombs, the bikers make great tank poppers.

[TiguriusX]

Great fluff based support from Wysten and Natanael for the use of the WL stat lines.

 

The Codex does mention the next WL is already present among the existing WG of the pack

[Void Master]

The Codex does mention the next WL is already present among the existing WG of the pack

 

True. He must be... otherwise, where's he going to come from?

 

I didn't really think that comment about wolf lords through... of course there'd be some warriors that are a wolflord's equal among his wolf guard :huh:

 

I am severely tempted to grab another one of those fellas on bike but that's like running 2 land raiders.

 

What are people thinking about warrior born VS saga of the bear?

 

Ideally, I reckon you need both so you have one guy who takes down rank and filre, and another who is able to weather those hidden power fists everywhere...

[Wildfire]

I'd pretty much always take Bear on anything with base T of 4. Hidden powerfists are just too deadly othewise.

[TiguriusX]

What are people thinking about warrior born VS saga of the bear?

 

Ideally, I reckon you need both so you have one guy who takes down rank and filre, and another who is able to weather those hidden power fists everywhere...

 

If you put your warrior saga on a TWM he becomes immune to PF instant death (true T5). He serves as your dedicated troop killer.

 

*Littlbitz* posted some detailed batreps with a bear saga bike TH-lord working with a warrior saga TWM-lord *Mechanicon thread should be on first or second page still*.

 

Worth a read if you have time

[Sanct]

Except you cant give saga of the hunter to a HQ on a bike, jump pack or thunderwolf.

 

where does it say a thunderwolf wolf guard battle leader can't have saga of the hunter?

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Except you cant give saga of the hunter to a HQ on a bike, jump pack or thunderwolf.

 

where does it say a thunderwolf wolf guard battle leader can't have saga of the hunter?

 

pg 85 WGBL

says only Power armour that does not have a jump pack or bike [so no Term armour]

but how about a TW mount?

 

pg 64 Sagas

Infantry only.

[Wysten]

The Codex does mention the next WL is already present among the existing WG of the pack

 

True. He must be... otherwise, where's he going to come from?

 

I didn't really think that comment about wolf lords through... of course there'd be some warriors that are a wolflord's equal among his wolf guard :)

 

I am severely tempted to grab another one of those fellas on bike but that's like running 2 land raiders.

 

What are people thinking about warrior born VS saga of the bear?

 

Ideally, I reckon you need both so you have one guy who takes down rank and filre, and another who is able to weather those hidden power fists everywhere...

 

Of course, I would only consider taking 2 in larger point games, mainly because the cost prohibits use of actual feet on the ground (Leaders are not terribly points efficent, but are a rock and a leadership boost. If your not using both attributes, he's being used wrong) and secondly it does not make sense for them to use two heroes in the same small battle zone incase they are taken out or get so pent up over kill stealing that they fight eachother. XD

 

Personally, the only time I would consider warrior born over bear is when he's on a Thunder Wolf and theres nothing likely to kill him. Even then, it's uses are a bit hit or miss. If you don't end up in combat for a round it resets, so I imagine it's quite hard to keep him in combat with something consitantly without him breaking it. Anything else should probably use Saga of the bear, since most armys should have a version or varient of the fist or some monsterious creature that would normally instant kill within that area.

[Natanael]

I see warriorborn like an insurace that I kill the squad I attacked on their turn, so I am free to charge next. It is not likley that a Lord charges in and kills a unit outright on his own, and if they hold (hopefully) he gets enough attacks in the assault phase of their turn to finish them off and then go about the next target.

 

No use getting shot because of overkill anyway, right?

 

That said, I dont use sagas that much. A WL on a bike could use Bear, but other then that I usually have squads that do the cleanup.

 

- Natanael

[Wysten]

Aye, a lone Wolf Lord riding on Thunder Wolf or bike can probably take out squads single handiedly over time, warrior just takes advantage of the first squad, and cranks it to the extreme to slam into the next one. Just the biker is more exposed to the fist, but probably more resistant on the run up due to the +4 cover save while turboing around.

[Natanael]

Yep, true. I have yet to try out the bikes (hopefully gonna runa two packs this week) but I can see how the bikesLord really needs his Bear. My main problem over here in sweden is the harsh compositions scores a WL with thunderwolf/bike, SS, TH and Runic gets ;)

 

- Natanael

[Wysten]

Yep, true. I have yet to try out the bikes (hopefully gonna runa two packs this week) but I can see how the bikesLord really needs his Bear. My main problem over here in sweden is the harsh compositions scores a WL with thunderwolf/bike, SS, TH and Runic gets :lol:

 

- Natanael

 

I heard about the Sweedish comp system, and none of it that good, though I guess it depends where you listen to. Heh.

 

That being said, I would probably consider bear more importent then Runic armour for a biker though, his enhanced durability vs hits is great, but often the need to take the fist is nothing short of essencal. Thunder Wolf can get away with it due to very little strength 10 stuff out there, unless he meets another thunderwolf or meth. Bikers generally can't.

[Natanael]

Yep, it really depends on who you listen to. We actually like the system around here, but most ppl from other places seem to think it is crap :sick: Maybe mostly due to not having played it in a tourney.

 

Anyway - I was thinking about the other sagas, if there was any other one that could be valid to take. Maybe Majesty, to keep the bikes in the game longer, but that seems a bit redundant with his Ld 10 already. Wolfkin might be good if you combine them with some troop Fen wolves to put pressure on your opponent.

 

- Natanael

[Auretious Taak]

Saga of the Hunter + Bikers - How to use The Combination.

 

I thought I'd add this here despite the thread being 11 months old (it was linked to a very recent list so here I am!) because its eems fitting.

 

The mention of Saga of the Hunter was done and people realised you couldn't stick it on anyone but a foot PA character and so dismissed it out of hand. As Space Wolf players we need to be looking at our armies in a very fluid everything interacts withe ach other in a flexible and adaptable manner on the field of battle. A Saga of the Hunter character doesn't have to outflank for example and indeed in combination with Storm caller froma Rune priest can give a unit designated to provide cover for other units behind a cool 4+ cover save (the same as those behind). More to the point though, if a unit of swiftclaw bikers Turbo-boosts and the character with the saga of the Hunter moves and attaches to the unit after the bikers boost, the bikers gain a 2+ cover save (3+ cover for the bike+stealth = 2+ cover save).

 

This can be very handy in certain lists such as a list which has a strong flank/rear striking ability on the enemy whereby the Hunter chap comes in from the side and attaches to a biker unit which itself is used to shield/bubblewrap your own units in a cool 2+ cover save area of awesome. Sure template weapons will ignore this cover, but very few template weapons are ap 3 or less and so it doesn't matter as much.

 

But you don't have to use teh bikers as a flanking unit, and you don't have to deploy the Saga of teh Hunter guy as an outflanking IC, youc an attach him to a unit to deploy normally and then leave and join another unit in the movement phase passing on the Stealth rule to that unit. In this way utilising a turbo-boosting Swift Claw Biker unit can actually wrap your advancing units in a 2+ cover save barrier. E.g. Deploying a IC with Saga of the Hunter in a rhino borne unit which moves 6" and disembarks the Hunter character at the end of the first 6" movement in the first turn after the rest of the army has pushed forward and the Bikers have Turbo-Boosted in front of your army. Remember that bike bases are longer and so you can still cover the rhino's that push forward 12" as well as the 6" move+2" disembark+1" base size (3" away from the front of the 12" moving mech advance) relatively easily. Sure, this is a one turn tactic, but you usually on't need that much more and if the biekrs are targetted your power units aren't and if the bikers are ignored certainly tehy are in a threat range for your next turn. In any case, this is a tactic that biker lists should seriously consider.

 

You as a player just have to think a bit outside the box - look at the Hunter IC+the Swiftclaws as mobile cover for yor army and you'll get much more out of them. They can still hit quite hard which shouldn't be forgotten, but as a means to get good chunks of your army into threat range more reliably, the combination should not be underestimated nor ignored.

 

Have a great day,

 

Auretious Taak.