To Take or Not to Take

[chrisult]

Hi guys,

 

I'm trying to build a 1500-1750pts cc army list and I'm finding it very difficult to build.

 

1. Some squads looks real good but expensive.

2. Since I like most of the models I'm trying to fit a squad of each (sanguinary guard, vanguard veterans, assault squad, etc) and

3. I'm not sure if it cool to nearly deep strike most of the unites or give them rhinos.

 

I'm having real trouble making a successful close combat list because I don't now which best squads to take in my list, which models goes with others and how to field them.

 

At first I was going to make a DC squad of 5 and a chaplain with jump packs but that was going to be expensive.. and decided to make 9 dc and a chaplain in a rhino and it turned out to be a lot expensive for the list so I think will take them off my list...

 

I would like to hear your ideas or maybe how you run your army to be a competitive one because I don't have any idea from where to start :/

 

Thanks.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I run 3 Full assault squads with a fist and 2 meltaguns each. These combined with Furious Charge and FnP gives a very good combat unit. On the charge 1 squad gives out 25 S5 I5 attacks and 3 S9 I1 attacks. They're my army's staple unit.

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

and 3 S9 I1 attacks

i think that your doing that wrong. because i remember a thread that had talked about weapons like this but it had asaroths ax instead but since it is not thier base strength they do not get the +1s bonus. and im sure the same would apply here.

[SamaNagol]

POwer Fists with Furious Charge get S9

 

S4 multiplied by 2 for the Fist then plus 1 for FC = 9

 

It is very clearly specified in the Rule Book

[Cyto]

A powerfist doubles the space marine sergeant's str to 8 and he adds 1 for furious charge while gaining only 1 extra attack for charging and none for a CC weapon. Hence, 3 attacks made at str 9 on the charge.

[bulley]

When I started BA's a couple of months ago I got sucked into the "ooh shiney" thing with Sang Guard and VV - every list I made HAD to have them, I was rocking a all jump pack army and just did not do well in my area's meta (a lot of either mobile shooty armies or stationary shooty armies, sat infront of open area's) and thus my jumpers were cut down.

 

I quickly realised that as cool looking as the models are, simply shoving ASM's in a razor and ploughing towards the enemy guns a-blazing (LOVE fast tanks!) were just as cool, there would be room for VV quite easily (just as your tanks with RAS kitted up for CC get to the enemy, guess who deep strikes / assaults with a ton of power weapons?) and could use the sang guard models for shear niceness (which is actually what I am doing when I fancy not going completely tank spammy).

 

Also going to make a drop podding Furioso list just for giggles, because we have a couple of infantry guard armies in our meta, and I'd laugh to see what x3 furioso's with would do with blood talons on T3 20+ man squads.

[shatter]

Hi guys,

 

I'm trying to build a 1500-1750pts cc army list and I'm finding it very difficult to build.

 

*snip*

 

I'm having real trouble making a successful close combat list because I don't now which best squads to take in my list, which models goes with others and how to field them.

 

*snip*

 

Practice alone with reserve rolls and what you've reserved for deep striking. Practice placement over and over versus a proxy army of bits of paper representing the army shapes you've faced already and... consider the consequences. It's like target shooting. It's best to discover your typical spread and adjusting your sights before discarding your weapon.

 

I think one of the common problems with mostly expensive unit DS lists is people affording few units total and having only, therefore 1 or 2 max each turn: ultimately feeding these squads one or two at a time to the enemy from falling to short range high str, high AP weapons & saturation.

 

3 ways to solve it.

1. Cheaper but larger DS units = more wounds

2. More expensive... ie. squads of 10 with (multiple?) ICs. the more models available on a single reserve roll, the more wounds the enemy must kill. Consider Dante, priest and a 10 VV squad. Dante and priest +5 'shooty' VV DS (precision), 5 CC VV land nearby and HI. One reserve roll for the whole unit, 2 combat squads are deployed. (I'm not suggesting you must take Dante & 10 VV, only that it's a combo that can work: 12 models on one reserve roll)

3. Entire army to be reserved to increase chance of surviving shoot phase with a usable quantity of models.

 

Consider table edge reserve for some units. Just because they have DoA and can DS, doesn't mean it's always sensible to do it.

 

Anyway, as they say... the only way to get better is to play a better opponent. Take your licks like a man. :cuss

 

GL.

[Jakobus]

Deepstrike has the issue that your assault marines will not get their full advantage for the charge attack and the Furious charge bonus. It is very useful to drop in and blast something but then you'll be in the blob of blast eating.

 

Also, while I understand the joy of the Powerfist, it is hitting after everyone else. If you have a powerweapon or Lightning Claw you are hitting on Initiative (barring that stuff) which because of Furious charge is before most other things.

While expensive I had a recent game where my Epiostary (I had to quickly increase the point of the list I had on me from 1750 to 1800 for other reasons) with Might of Heroes and Unleash rage joined a unit with a Sang Priest and a Sarg with twin Lightning claws. On the charge the Sarg got 7 attacks rerolling both hits and wounds and ignoring armour at int 5 verses their int 4. While the Power fist in that situation would have had similar results he would have struck after they had their chance to strike.

[chrisult]

I cant practice right now since I don't have any blood angels models.. I'm trying to make a decent list first before start buying a lot of stuff which I might not use.

 

Which of these squads in your opinion is the best..

 

1 The Sanguinary Guard

2 Venguard Vets

3 Assault Terminators

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

If your going for a Jump list then my vote goes for the VV. Just make sure you dont overcost them and try to keep them cheap(ish). They were one of my favourite squads in my jump list.

[JamesI]

Of those 3, in my opinion, Vangaurd are the best.

[Fortunate Son]

I'm with those guys... the Vanguard.

Vet Asst marines have been with us for a long time and are tried and true.

 

Asst termies are slow... period.

And the SG have other deficits, no matter how cool they look.

[Redfinger]

Which of these squads in your opinion is the best..

 

1 The Sanguinary Guard

2 Venguard Vets

3 Assault Terminators

 

 

Like I have explained to you multiple times in pm's and posts, there is no "best" you need to get "good" and "bad" out of your mind, there is only synergy, and harmony. So stop asking what is good better or best, and start saying, what issues do I need to address, and how I can address them with the units I can/want to run.

 

BA armies excell when there is synergy and harmony among units, and unitll you change that perspective you will continue to have these struggles. Hence the links that I e-mailed you that adressed some of your concerns.

 

I know that you are leaning toward a jump list, which is very potent and requires practice, patience and precision to use. After 8 games I finally had my first win last nite w/ my all jump list. It was versus SW and it was an objective game, I won 3 to his 2. It was a hard fought game, I had a terrible headache after I was done he was quite mad claiming my list was "cheese". My list wasnt "cheese" it was balanced, and his was horribly unbalanced, and range heavy.

 

My over all point is synergy, take the good/bad out, just look at synergy. Now of course all of this is thrown out the window the moment you play for fun, but the second you decide you want to compete, this is the approach you need to take.

 

Ashton

[the jeske]

thing is HG do suck for what they do and how much they cost . VV are usable only in either jump pack armies[which make up the weaker builds out of codex BA] or support for alfa strike builds and Termis work only in LR rush .

my advice is go for cheap stuff . if something starts to cost 400+pts and is a support unit , then I hope GW made it "broken" , because otherwise it aint worth it . And if you plan to take stuff like termis , know that you need to take a delivery unit for them [doubling the cost of the unit] and then you have to spam it , because a single investment of so many points is to fragile [which means unless you want to focus on that unit , it wont fit in to a 1500 and you will have to run understrenght troops at 1500+].

but the question of build is important . You building a mecha ? then taking anti tank units and priests is more important , other stuff wont fit in [well not at 1500] . if your going for a razor build you already have a counter unit [aka the mefo] you dont need other . If your tying to make some sort of a mixed army then non of those realy work , too few models per unit , too high costs and they die like normal meq anyway.

[Zeller]

VV are sure great for that HI on units like long fangs, guard command squads, lootas, tau commanders, ect. Cheaper than SG or TDA, pinpoint accuracy, and none of this two-handed power weapon business.

[Cambrian]

thing is HG do suck for what they do and how much they cost ...

Sorry does HG = honor guard? Or did you mean SG? Just asking because I'm still learning to play this army and the HG seemed quite reasonable while the SG not so much...

[Zeller]

HG = Honor Guard

[Cambrian]

And the HG tend to be underwhelming for their point cost?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Honor Guard is the best jump unit to Max Out in my opinion. They have a priest built in and can take stormshields. Vanguard are best if you keep them fairly small and cheap - they are for sniping armor and heavy weapons teams like Devs and Long Fangs. I love Sanguinary Guard but their lack of an invulnerable save hurts since they are both small and expensive plus you need to invest in Dante to get the most out of them.

 

0b :devil: