What do you think is over the top in the BA codex?

[Snorri Goresson]

as the title says

 

this gives all you BA players a chance to talk about it here instead of in the space wolf sub fourms

 

so my view

 

Meph

Sanguinor

danta's mask and his points cost

preists with your furious charge and FnP bubble

fast tanks

 

there is more but these are the main ones

 

i know some on will say it, but yes we know space wolfs are cheaper, by 3pts but lets keep this about the bllad angels

 

Snorri

[Redo]

I agree with some things that you say and not with others.

 

Dante and his death mask; he is a little pricey and the curse is rather strong. I enjoyed how the Death mask was in the PDF codex.

 

Memphiston; he is very expensive and I actually think that whilst his stats are over the top he is quite resonable because he is not an IC. He also lacks an invulnerable save which can make a big impact and is dependent upon his psychic powers which can be nullified...especially by wolves :D

Sanguinor; once again his lack of IC balances him out a bit. He is also only a T4 character with 3 wounds. Can be susceptible to massed fire. Not over the top IMO.

 

Priests and the FNP/FC bubble; Personally I think all BA should get FC regardless of Priests (like 3rd Ed.) and should take a Ld test every turn to see if they rage. In regards to the FNP...na ja it can be over the top but you have to remember that the S.Priest is an IC and can get singled out in combat or weight of fire. One wound and no invulnerable save...seems fine to me.

 

Fast tanks; Generally these tanks cost more than regular tanks and are still side armour AV11...no problems here except the Baal Predator. The Baal is very expensive and not as points efficent as it used to be. I do not like it in the Fast Attack slot and think Scout is not a rule that it needs to have. IMO would have been better in heavy Support, making BA choose more wisely their tank choices.

 

Deep Striking Landraiders; WHilst I do not have a problem with LRs being a dedicated transport I do not like the idea of Deep Striking LRs. A bit over the top for me.

 

Well I think that is about all from me on the over the top from. Curious to see what others say.

[shatter]

Nothing is over the top in the codex. Some things are strong, some not so much. As it should be.

[DokSnyder]

The only thing that is over the top in my opinion is Mephy. He can single-handedly kill entire armies while always hiding from fire behind other troops.

The rest is ok, they are not generic marines after all and need something to stand out. Furthermore, you pay for the special abilities and unique abilities, unlike Space Wolves. (Played Wolves a long time, stopped with the new codex.)

 

Shocking Landraiders are just silly. They dont have DoA and are huge, making them more prone to getting lost in the warp. Wouldn't ever Deepstrike them, especially when filled with troops. While it might be funny, it is not over the top at all.

[Morollan]

Shocking Landraiders are just silly. They dont have DoA and are huge, making them more prone to getting lost in the warp. Wouldn't ever Deepstrike them, especially when filled with troops. While it might be funny, it is not over the top at all.

 

I only tend to deep strike them when I have a locator beacon to lock onto. Infiltrated scouts are useful things!

[SnorriSnorrison]

I can´t find anything over the top in the codex. Meph has certain disadvantages that balance his combat power, and while I don't think that he is over the top, I think that raising his stats to these heigths was unnecessary.

 

Dante is just not over the top. He lacks combat power(5 S4 attacks....yeah. ) and is expensive as well. His mask is nice, though.

 

 

Compared to the Wolves, we don't have any über-units. Our armies require even more synergy to succeed in battle, whereas the Wolves are much more easier to play with all these Grey Hunters, cheap special weapons all over the place as well as chainswords and pistols along with countercharge.

 

our units are pricey and need to support each other. Sure thing the DC will rip everything apart they hit, as will Meph, but the DC can't be controlled and Meph can't join units.

 

 

Snorri

[matchbox]

I agree with Snorri in most respects on this point. However there is an easy fix for the DC problem. Stick them in a Stormraven with a dread, drop them right next to the unit you want to make Pate out of, and let them have some fun. They charge when they get out with it being a flying raider. You can always pick them back up again later.

[CainTheHunter]

Oh, this one in our forum got just closed by mods - shortly afterwards Whitefireinferno complained about sending guys to BA forum and opening annoying threads :P

[shatter]

I think it's interesting to hear what's in C:BA that makes other codex players sweat.

[Whitefireinferno]

Look we have Meph and thats it and plasma makes him shut the hell up , Nothing else you mention is really considered for anysort of tourney list by most BA players Dante OMG old grampa took some points off your thunder wolf wolf lord wolf wolf mc Sven the lord of wolf thundering wolves *Lol no guys Im not Phil* and makes THE most useless unit in our game only slightlt more useless by painting a giant kill me Im scoring target on it.

 

Oh you mentioned our Preists sure 3 will cost around a 150 for no upgrades If we run Jump packs Im pretty sure thats 3 meltabombs in cost more each and the same If we give them power weapons and are now a 80ish point IC that can be picked out in combat... SO broken Oh and they eat up our Elites slot

 

Fast tanks you say we had them in the PDF well if you rolled a 4-6 so they got to become perma fast at a nice price hike

 

Oh and the Sanguinator Really average for his cost and again cant join units oh and its so much fun having you Devs Sgt becom a Mini god.

 

Last musings on this Topic Is GO BACK TO THE FANG AND STOP BEING A TROLL

[Snorri Goresson]

Meph has the stats for a DP and costs less than Logan

danta is like 50 points cheaper than Logan and Njal, but he can knock down your stats this is what i find silly

 

i know what your saying about your priests but as i showed in the other post, they can bring alot more to a unit for more points than we can bring with a wolf guard.

 

your troops are only 3 points more than ours.

your devs are about the same points as ours, ok you cant split fire and we can have 6 per pack but you have other fair better choices in your heavy support such as yout fast tanks, i know you pay more but you are paying for the fast tank.

 

TWC...... sang guard, there both about the same, and you have to remember that a tooled up TWC pack will cost far more points than any thing you have in your whole army, so it kind of balances out

 

there is a guy who uses BA at my local club and he runs a full jump pack army backed with baals and preds, i have to say its a nasty army to watch and play against

 

so your army isnt underpowered against say the wolves, thery have very diffrent play styles and if you are getting beat by the wolves id guess its down to luck or your lack of skill with your army, the wolves are not the bee all and end all in codexs, if you know how to play them you can make anyone work for a win, same for you guys

 

Snorri

[SnorriSnorrison]

Look we have Meph and thats it and plasma makes him shut the hell up , Nothing else you mention is really considered for anysort of tourney list by most BA players Dante OMG old grampa took some points off your thunder wolf wolf lord wolf wolf mc Sven the lord of wolf thundering wolves *Lol no guys Im not Phil* and makes THE most useless unit in our game only slightlt more useless by painting a giant kill me Im scoring target on it.

 

Are you talking about the Sanguinary Guard? How come you find them useless? I found them uttlery devastating.

 

Oh, and maybe you should calm down a bit. There's no need for rage. Not now...:P

 

 

Snorri

[DokSnyder]

TWC...... sang guard, there both about the same, and you have to remember that a tooled up TWC pack will cost far more points than any thing you have in your whole army, so it kind of balances out

 

While most of what you say makes sense, this made me laugh and cry at the same time. You can't compare these 2 units, they differ immensely, both in style and raw power. While Sang Guard is barely ok, TWC is among the most powerful units, if not the the most powerful, in terms of "raw killiness", survivability and value per point.

[Snorri Goresson]

SO broken Oh and they eat up our Elites slot

 

just like our wolf guard who we need to use an elites slot so out packs can be ld9

 

 

i here what your saying about TWC but for 250pts for a barebones pack they eat the points very fast once you start adding stuff to keep them alive, and then the weopons as they still have a 1-6 chance to get the rending per attack

 

now the sang guard are well tooled up for a low points cost, 40 per model.

 

now i said there almost the same as in

 

TWC moves 6" charge 12"

sang move 12" charge 6"

 

for your points they are have the cost as a TWC would be if i gave them the same load out as a sang guard *chuckle* almost the smae as no jump packs.

 

and again danta, he less points that ragnar, and has more wounds and better int than him, and again has the cool and broken mask

 

Snorri

[Whitefireinferno]

TWC...... sang guard, there both about the same, and you have to remember that a tooled up TWC pack will cost far more points than any thing you have in your whole army, so it kind of balances out

 

 

HAHA nope our Death Co have that in the bag Im pretty sure. and No fast tanks are not a better choice than having it bein destroyed by a Krak missle and thats going to kill a single bolter armed wolf

 

Meph has the stats for a DP and costs less than Logan

danta is like 50 points cheaper than Logan and Njal, but he can knock down your stats this is what i find silly

 

Okay Meph got one more S and T and 2 W and 1 I and lost the ability to hide in a blob of troops, Dante can hide in a group of troops and makes Sangguard*hahahaha* scoring and has a mask. yet logan has what 27 pages of special rules and Njal can only wreck any thing that moves through the air and can shut down powers better than most oh and ruin Infiltrating and lets draw a line and makes things die oh yeah fun.

 

your troops are only 3 points more than ours.

and yet your guys get more weapons and special rules that are always there.

 

there is a guy who uses BA at my local club and he runs a full jump pack army backed with baals and preds, i have to say its a nasty army to watch and play against

Blah blah blah my local store has a giant robot of death that fires VW beetles at the passer bys

 

so your army isnt underpowered against say the wolves, thery have very diffrent play styles and if you are getting beat by the wolves id guess its down to luck or your lack of skill with your army, the wolves are not the bee all and end all in codexs, if you know how to play them you can make anyone work for a win, same for you guys

It is quite funny you say this since in the topic in the fang somebody said wolves are easy teir to play and in considering that the BA are the DE of the imperium. Look face it your army comes with better all round rules than us and yet we still pay more for them sure its 3 points so thats a thunderhammer per squad and then getting a extra attack is slightly gimped if they did not get FC because 3 points is great for a rule to get something 1 out of 6 times.

 

Oh and I do not doubt By skill at the Game Marines in general are the Mary Sues of the game I play Tau also and I win with them and that requires military level tactics.

 

*Edit* Oh and to our Snorri Its been one of those days oh and this is not rage my freind this is a Flesh Tearer at a nice calm level

[JamesI]

Lets return this discussion to being civil. This is not a request.

[shatter]

TWC...... sang guard, there both about the same, and you have to remember that a tooled up TWC pack will cost far more points than any thing you have in your whole army, so it kind of balances out

 

a DC unit can cost as much as 3000 pts. :P

[Whitefireinferno]

Fair enough JamesI I guess I can, However I think he has returned to the Fang.

[Terrahawk]

In my opinion our Codex is very nicely balanced when compared to other 5th Edition army books. In fact I feel 5th is very balanced in general. Sure, Mephiston might be pushing it a bit, but then again every 5th Ed army has something extra nasty (TWC, Vendettas, Vulkan etc.).

 

We do have some fluff in the new book though that I don't really like, such as the whole Necron debacle, but since this thread is for the rules I'll leave it at that. :P

[Crynn]

There are some vallid points but that snorri wolf player has little to know idea what hes on about.

 

Dante this and that Sang guard this and that. They are both horrible units that rarely if ever see tournament play. Dante is over priced and his mask just flat out doesnt work on some armies logan and Njal are far better value. The Sang guard are also over priced. I know ull say artificer is 20 points and a power weapon is 15 but that is not the way it works. They are generally excepted as a bad unit for competitive play for many reasons. DC are in the same bout unless you put them in a transport hich isnt a SR beacuse it too is completely over priced.

 

On the flip side we have some great units that are really good value. HG Meph (I think hes good for his cost not just good) libs, fast vinds and preds at an increased price but well worth it, cheap razorbacks and rhinos when dropping JPs but overall our codex isnt as well written as yours. The SW codex is generally accepted as being excelently written bar all the wolf wolf wolf nonsense. You have far less units in the dex that are no competetive compared to the BA's. This doesn't mean BA's cant field a top tier army but teir top tier armies are much more limited in what they field than the SM dex.

 

This isn't a matter of just my opinion, these same thoughts are expressed all over forums everywhere.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Morticon]

+Nothing wrong with this kind of threads lads- but lets keep it on topic.

 

Personally. even with his "Weaknessses" i think Mephy is OTT.

 

There is nothing else I feel is over-powered. Mephy has to be catered for by our enemies. They have to factor in his type of unit, or him specifically - otherwise they lose.

Sanguinor is T4 - 2+ sure - but 3 Wounds and T4 - thats not easy to kill.

 

Dante doesnt buff the army in anyway (FOC aside) and I dont see his value in a non-themed list - and even then you have the Sang Guard issue which most players are not keen on.

His death mask requires an LD check ? Arent most units statistically likely to pass that ?

 

*EDIT: confused DeathMasks here!! Hardcore, sure. Overpowered - nope.

 

Priests with FNP/FC bubble are now the BA schtick. It is now our thing - along with our fast vehicles.

It is strong -but not OTT. We require additional elite slots and add an extra 1wound KP to the mix - not to mention between 50 and 100 points extra in cost.

BT have vows, SW have CounterCharge and HQ madness, SM have various tactics and more recently DE have FC/FNP/FEARLESS depending.

Its just our thing. If a fundamental thing like this was OTT - BA would be in a lot more top 3 spots than we see.

 

Adds to our price. Every time we have a vehicle we're paying more. Couple that with the above mentioned factors and you have a smaller army for the same cost.

 

Powerful - sure.

OTT - not a chance.

[Snorri Goresson]

not once have i said anything about DC, as i see them they are over priced one trick ponys. if i had my way they would get more for the points ie a jump pack. but then i see the van guard are the same, i can understand why a unit that is geared for assault has to pay 25 point per jump pack... silly very silly

 

and yet your guys get more weapons and special rules that are always there.

 

what more rules?? we have counter attack, you have red thirst, which can be made better with mr grim and get it all the time if your within 6" of a priest who also gives you FnP.

 

gimped if they did not get FC because 3 points is great for a rule to get something 1 out of 6 times.

 

how many priests do you run?? i guess aleast 3

 

I play Tau also and I win with them and that requires military level

 

*chuckle* you cant do real world military tact in 40k, one you can do fire and movement due to the way the player turns work, you cant pop smoke to mask a flanking attack, i can go on and on about how unrealist 40k is to real combat, if you want real combat on a table top go pplay secrets of the third reich, now that is a game about tactics

 

Snorri

[Cpt. Salvatore]

Only thing I personally think that is over the top is deep striking LR's and the fact we can have dedicated LR's everywhere. But, what I would like to point out is that in my opinion, this topic should be closed. This discussion has no real point because there are a few people who state their opinions peacefully and go away and then there are certain Wolfs and Angels that just snap at each other with common "Have you read our coedex? Guess not because you say this and that...". Pointless.

[Morollan]

and again danta, he less points that ragnar, and has more wounds and better int than him, and again has the cool and broken mask

 

If you're going to post drivel about our army, please do us the courtesy of at least getting our Chapter Master's name right.

 

D-A-N-T-E

 

Still chuckling over TWC and SG being equivalent. LOL

[Whitefireinferno]

Well shaggysnorri I have read your Dex however do not have it on hand I however do Have Army builder and he has got half the armoury plus a weapon that bends rules a ability to buff any squad he is withas well as being a Icon and well Njal who has full access to you Psyker powers has something better than a Psyhood has a silly fimiliar.

 

Oh and check your rule book you have acute senses so thats 2 rules that are always there with out any need for a special character.

 

And no I run 2 tops and they are barebones other wise the eat up loads of space that is otherwise needed for tanks Playing Mech FT and all in a fluffy army.

 

Oh and a chuckle about playing Tau look they play the closest to any real world army sure I can't do real world Tactics because we can't shoot our own units. Also there is a term for those that thing the Tau are how you explained and that is "Derp'Ka" or in english The retarded blow just like feilding skyrays. But this is a PA board so yeah thats it on that matter.

 

 

Sorry James but look wolves grind my gears when they invade board number 8 and make silly topics we see on like a weekly basis.

 

But one thing I did think of that is close to being OP are our fast Vindis but that is set aside by their cost.