What do you think is over the top in the BA codex?

[JamesI]

On the topic, Mephiston is probably the only thing I consider OTT. Dante's mask is annoying to face, but overall Dante is good he's not overpowered.

 

I dislike the giant mech wall we can build with 3 preds/Vindis in heavy slots, 3 Baals in FA, plus Furiosos and Razorbacks. But I don't think its overpowered.

 

Sanguinor is too easy to kill to be too OTT.

 

Fast vehicles all around was rather silly, but the cost increase makes up for it.

 

I do think the Wolves have a more powerful codex than we do. The Grey Hunters are cheaper, have their special rules built in (versus our 1/6), always have bolter/chainsword/bolt pistol, and access to stuff like the standard, extra power weapons/MOTW and 2 special weapons (the second of which is free no matter which one they take). But they don't have built in sergeants, which does help modify the cost difference.

 

A friend of mine (A Tau player who has recently started Wolves) says that the Wolves are the best army for beating basically anything and the Blood Angels are the best army for beating the Wolves. Not sure I see it, but my experience against the Wolves is rather limited mostly to Loganwing lists.

 

I think we have a lot of fun, shiny, expensive toys. Like large Death Companies, Sanguinary Guard, Furioso Librarians. These units are fun to use and look impressive. But on the table, they often don't match their cost and really don't appear often in competitive lists.

 

I think our biggest advantage is the cheap Razorbacks on assault squads as troops.

[ItchiBuh]

I can tell you what I, as a Codex: SM player, find over the top.

It is not really one thing, but the right combination of options. Like:

 

DoA combined with 2 meltaguns in an assault squad. You are almost 100% garantied they show up when you want them, and they land where you want them. It means that no matter where you place your armor, it is vulnerable.

 

Some of you Librarian powers are a little to good too if you ask me. And lastly, the priests are good, they are really good.

 

But, this all depends on what you compair your codex too. Compaired to Space Wolves, I would say you are pretty much even in power. But compaired with Dark Angles, Black Templars and maybe even Vanila Marines, you got some cool stuff.

 

Kind regards,

Rune

[JamesI]

But, this all depends on what you compair your codex too. Compaired to Space Wolves, I would say you are pretty much even in power. But compaired with Dark Angles, Black Templars and maybe even Vanila Matines, you got some cool stuff.

 

Kind regards,

Rune

Vanilla marines have some really good stuff too with bikes as troops, combat tactics or chapter tactics (some of the chapter tactics are really good).

 

DA and BT are older codexes that will hopefully be brought into line with more modern marine dexes in the not too distant future (and that said, BT are still pretty good with Preferred Enemy all around).

 

When compared to the other 5th edition books, I think BA are perfectly in line with them. Compared to older books, we (and pretty much all the 5th edition stuff) can come across as overpowered.

[Jakobus]

I agree, the Mephiston is a powerhouse. Don't know if he is OTT, he'd be pretty close. And if he could join units and/or had all the BA Psychic powers at his disposal he would be.

 

Dantes mask, there are much worse things out there. But they have toned down his gear from what it was to current. If he had a special rule like the new Dark Eldar lords sieze initiative on a 4+ instead of fielding Sang Guard as troops he'd be moving towards something much more powerful.

 

DC cost a bucket have rage and need a Chaplain to be fully effective

 

Red Thirst, compare that to the Wolf Chapter tactics... hmm... thats probably not constructive so I'll move on

 

Fast rhino chassis, OK damn nice but OTT, I don't really think so

 

Deepstriking Landraiders - Without a homing beacon there is a huge risk here purly because of the size of them and the increased chance of a mishap. Its out of the game until at least turn 2 and may not turn up until turn 5 which if transporting Assault troops mean they can't hit until turn 3 at the earliest.

 

Sanguinary Priests - Sure they are awesome, but they are a 1 wound kill point on the field which can be targeted seperately in assault. As an IC they have to react first to a charge so will be definately in base2base.

 

There are new and shiny things, but not really OTT. You may just have to apply some different tactics against BAs

I'm sure a Spacewolf play can go through their list and say the same things about units in their list

[Morticon]

Guys, as much as id love to dive into the comparison - lets keep it on topic.

 

No more SW vs BA please. BA OTT - why?

 

Snorri- question though, are you always losing to BA ?

If yes, then maybe a change of tactics are needed.

If no, then maybe your idea of OTT is a bit disjointed.

[Snorri Goresson]

Guys, as much as id love to dive into the comparison - lets keep it on topic.

 

No more SW vs BA please. BA OTT - why?

 

Snorri- question though, are you always losing to BA ?

If yes, then maybe a change of tactics are needed.

If no, then maybe your idea of OTT is a bit disjointed.

 

 

i agree

 

to answer your question

 

not played them with my wolfs yet

but do have a small BA jump pack army, pre heresy.

 

i only opened this thread as the one on our forums was starting to get filled with BA players telling us that we are over the top and there not, i have noticed that nearly all threads about SW rules or BA rules, there is always atleast a coulpe of posts that have a dig at each others codex.

 

i dont think your codex is OTT, but i do think Meph is just the wrost page of writing i have ever seen in a codex, with one swift moment Mr Ward has made a joke out of one of the best chacators the BA had.

 

there are some things in the codex like the priest bubble that can be OTT if spammed, just like SW ml spam :P,

 

so lets get back on topic and talk about whats beardy in YOUR codex

 

cheers

 

Snorri

[Rybnick]

I don't really think anything in the codex is OTT, but the people at my local shop have a list of a few things they love to complain about. We have some really nice bonuses and options but we pay a hefty price for the majority of them. ;)

 

First and foremost among their complaints is the humble Sanguinary Priest. No amount of argument on my part can sway their judgement about them. Secondly they love to complain about all fast vehicles, despite the premium we are charged. Thirdly they love to complain about ASM as troops. (I didn't include Mephi on this listing as he is included enough from other people.)

 

There is one particular Ork player who absolutely loathes Dante because of his mask, despite the rest of his abilities being somewhat ho-hum versus his orks. This may be due to the mask gimping his Ghazgul character to the lowly status of a regular warboss.

[Dark Legionnare]

I used to run Dante as my HQ because I loved the idea of him, such an old man being one of the biggest bad-asses in the universe. Used him throughout 4th until a friend lost his model for me. I was at a loss so I decided to use Mephiston as my new HQ, I had bought an auction on eBay in 2006 that had Mephiston, Dante, and Lemartes for 30 bucks. He was a great HQ choice and I loved to use him, then 5th came around and things got ugly for his reputation.

 

I personally think that like any really strong unit, he's not over the top. He is an extreme powerhouse, and I mean EXTREME. But like people mentioned, AP2 weapons are his bane with no invuln. I had him die one game against my friend's Chaos army because his Plague Marine squads got all four plasmas gun shots they fired to hit, and I failed every cover save, dead Mephy. Now I know that was my bad rolling that made him die, but this is 40k. A lot of things come down to chance.

 

If there was anything I could call close to over the top, it's Mephy. I have had him steamroll through player's lines before, and I mean steamroll the entire game and end up killing 4 or 5 squads single-handedly. I felt a bit bad for him just doing so much damage so I switch between him and a Reclusiarch, sometimes even a terminator Librarian for giggles.

 

I told myself I was done with my BA, but I really like the idea of a "Fast" Vindicator and it's proving extremely difficult to not purchase one for my Angels Cruentus. A fast Vindi seems to be, like Mephy, a powerhouse with it's own acute, failing weaknesses.

 

</mytwocents>

 

*EDIT: I would exchange Dante's Mask rule for Eternal Warrior in a heartbeat. That, to me, is his biggest weakness.

[Brother Chris]

Seems quite balanced to me. Points costs seem to reflect utility. Deep striking Landraiders, and over 40 of them in the chapter seems like utter nonsense. Once we are established as primarily Jump-packers, with fast Rhino pattern vehicles and an aircraft, why this silly idea had to be grafted on as well is a mystery. Even the Codex couldn't think of an explanation for the vast numbers of them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

People are writing too much into the Necron debacle. Basically they were fighting each other then both sides are ambushed by Tyranids. To survive they fight the Nids or die. Both sides are so depleted following the battle versus the bugs that the Necrons phase out and what is left of the Blood Angels must retreat. That's all there is to it really.

 

Now on to the main topic...

 

I'm not a big fan of Mephiston since he doesn't work so well with a DoA list. Sanguinor is the better choice here if you want a super character. Is Mephiston really OTT? definitely so in my opinion and that's why he's so popular but he works best with a mech list. To me while the Sanguinor is pricey he is well worth the points - I remember one game at BoLScon this year he took out a squad of striking scorpions then vaporized an Avatar. Eventually he went down to a squad of war walkers but he had done his damage. Remember he can reroll all hits and wounds versus one enemy HQ, I've seen him take apart Abbadon... That's nothing to sneeze at either. I love using him.

 

Dante is strong because of his many special rules and buffs your army tactics. He's got an extra wound which is also nice plus a large number of attacks. You should run him with a Priest to get the most out of him on the charge... To me that's pretty much a no brainer.

 

We've got the best apothecaries in the game in my mind plus they are strong in assault if you go ahead and kit them with a power sword. Go ahead and give it a try. You might just like it. :) Then there are our Vanguard veterans. With DoA these Marines can snipe prickly units such as Long Fangs and battle suits.

 

Sanguinary Guard are only worth it if you are fielding Dante. I think one squad is enough. They can drop tanks easily and are also quite good in close combat. With FNP they are impervious to small arms fire. They are definitely not over the top though.

 

The Recluisarch is another fantastic unit - something unique for us (not dismissing BT and DA though). I'm sure lots of other SM players would love this as an option.

 

Then we've got the Honor Guard. Personally I think this is one of our better units, they are flexible too in terms of the weapons and stormshields at their disposal.

 

Our Librarians are dark fiends... Well they can be. They have access to several strong psychic powers to choose from so you can tailor them for your style of play.

 

Dreadnaughts, dreadnaughts, dreadnaughts !!! I think we have the best of the lot and that's saying quite a lot. Blood Talons are definitely over the top. These metal Shrined beasts can eat a squad of orks or Marines. I'm still waiting to see someone build a list maxed out with dreads. It's going to happen eventually too, mark my word.

 

Our ASM are just what the good doctor ordered. This carry over from the PDF is a nice little perk for us all.

 

Finally I must mention the new Stormraven. It's sad that it presently sees such limited play but my prediction is that will change when they are officially released. Again it's just a matter of time.

 

0b <_<

[syypher]

Always get made fun of for playing BA at my local shop. They always talk about how OP it is but I don't even run any of the things I consider OTT... Sucks having that stigma follow you around...

 

Anyways what I think for BA that is OTT:

-Mephiston against stuff that doesn't make you roll 3x dice for his tests...However rolling 3x dice for his tests IMHO brings him down to no longer being OTT.

-Lists that run 3+ Podded CC Furioso Dreds +DC Dreds. Heavy Dual TLAC Dreds are not OOT to me because they are easily replaced by Preds. Maxing out of those first ones though imo are oot.

 

That's it~

[Morticon]

Last warning for this thread to stay on topic.

 

Ive deleted unrelated posts.

 

It goes off one more time and its over.

[Grimtooth]

I thought I already posted my opinion in here, but maybe I forgot.

 

My view is that the BA codex is just fine. Most of the nitpicky things I see from BA players is because they personally don't like what the codex has to offer and envisioned something different then what the designers put into writing.

 

I have messed around with BA list building almost as much as I do with my SW. My opinion on the codex is that the only person I could not beat with BA would be me playing my SW. If SW never existed, I would be a happy BA player with one exception, the fluff of the BA codex is horrible beyond all belief. I could rip out every page of it from the codex and happily walk around with just the army list section.

[Drachnon]

Yeah our fluff is OTT in a bad way -_-

 

Anyways I think there's nothing really OTT in the codex. Mephiston is awesome against marine armies and similar considering the amount of players playing these armies I can see why he's turned out so effective, however I believe that against horde armies he wouldn't do as great and people wouldn't be calling him OTT.

Fast vehicles are awesome but we pay for those upgrades so I can't see it as OTT.

 

I've seen people complain about priests and suggesting that all blood angel armies should field 3. Personally I wouldn't field more then one, each priest is a 1 wound kill point after all, though the sanguinary noviate in the honour guard is very nice.

Dante is OTT compared to our captains but that's not because he's that good :|.

[Swordbrother]

I am amused by post that said:

 

"Meph have the same stats as a Daemon prince and cost less than logan"

 

Simply by the fact a Daemon prince cost barely over a hundred points and mephiston cost well over two DP:s. And Logan and Mephy cost the SAME.

[Dark Legionnare]

Always get made fun of for playing BA at my local shop. They always talk about how OP it is but I don't even run any of the things I consider OTT... Sucks having that stigma follow you around...

 

I get that sometimes at where I play. Though if you've been playing BA a long time, like a lot of members here and myself, then just shrug it off. You played them before they got a bad reputation, doesn't matter if you still do. Like a sports team, stick with them through thick and thin.

 

As a quick update, proxied that fast Vindicator yesterday. An absolutely delicious unit that REALLY helps me deal with swarm armies, one of my harder games to play. Not over the top, more expensive, but an amazing asset.

[SamaNagol]

I really have never heard anyone who is actually GOOD at 40k say anything is overpowered. especially not the Codex as a whole

[Zhukov]

Over the top? As in overpowered? Nothing springs to mind. I dont see anything to which all the 'modern' codexes cant adapt too. The armies which were unplayable already (DA, Necrons, DH) dont have a chance against BA either of course; but thats not a surprise.

I think its a pretty nice codex actually. Quite some completely different lists possible which are semi-competative at least. I love the fact that predators finally work like they should. (in other codexes they are just way too static)

 

Over the top design wise? Scouting Baals, 6" FnP bubbles even in transports and the rules of Mephi + Sanguinor. And renaming certain wargear to 'blood whatever', while the rules are exactly the same. Oh, the fluff of Sanguinor is as bad as it gets in my opinion.

[bloodancient]

Now I read 3/4 of the thread before I posted this so bare with me.

 

 

I must disagree with some of this brother I don't see anything over the top especially not meph first he's the on'y thing close to a MC but you don't get the MC rule with him He takes an HQ spot and is a libby without shield or invul. Fast tanks we pay enough for them to get them. Dante Bah (although I wouldn't mind trying the themed army atleast once). My biggest problem is not having enough spots in the FOC to field everything I would like(thank the Emperor for Apoc). And DS raiders yea droping them next to a melta works great everytime. I'm on a different side of this I think we need something thats over the top Like being able to drop pod termies oh wait someone already has that don't they.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think Matt Ward did a great job with the rules. Blood Angels are very competitive versus Space Wolves so I understand why you feel the way you do. Many people feel that Blood Angels is an very balanced codex due to the costs for the better units. You have to pay a premium to field units like Mephiston so it all works out. I know that some people aren't crazy about the new fluff but really this thread is not about our background.

 

>.<

 

0b :lol:

[the jeske]

they are not the same points, there is 25 points diffrence and logan who you pay more for, has no were near as good a stat line as Meph

your compering mefo to a wrong unit. logan does something totaly different and his job in a list is different from the one mefo has . if you want to check if mefo is better then what SW can do then you would have to check how much better he is then 2 lone wolfs , because they have the same job in a SW list.

[Zealadin]

I think the cost of buying the codex is over the top... I mean seriously I remember when codexes where 28$.

I also think Death Co should come 10 to a box for the same price, or like 5/10$ more.

 

Points costings for alot of units are also over the top in our codex. Considering Rage Death Co jump packs are just too expensive.

I mean I understand the balancing act, but they SHOULD be a viable jumper choice, and realistically they are not.

 

Alot of the drawings/pictures in the codex are also way over the top, I mean seriously some (like the cover art) are just terrible!

 

Storm Raven cost is also over the top. I think they should have come with the EA already.

 

I also think Mephiston's cost is pretty over the top, no invulnerable means he has to be sheilded properly and used strategically. He should be 100 points and an optional upgrade for each squad. With a jump pack, and lazer beamz from his eyes.

[Khavos]

Scouting Baals is really about it, honestly. There's nothing wrong with Mephiston that a few plasma guns can't fix.

[Darth Ghandi]

Some fluff is way over the top.

Fluff wise i loved the angels of death book.

[Zarahemna]

I don't think anything is really over powered in this new codex. If anything this is one of the best codex books I have ever seen. Gone are the days of Red, Green, Blue and Grey space marines.

 

There are some real differences between the books and I think a lot of players' frustration is created by their desire for a best of marines codex with all the good bits combined in it.

 

What marine player doesn't want to be able to take Storm Ravens?

 

Some of the abilities are brilliant but the balancing vulnerabilities are there too. Death Company are amazing and I'm happy to shell out 385 points for six of them. It is a game after all, besides how else am I going to draw fire away from my units of Sanguinary Guard...

 

No, this isn't an overpowered codex. It's a cool codex and some are suffering from some FOC envy, despite the quality of their own books. It's just silly.