Xeraxen Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Brothers, what happens to those of us who fall in our service to the gods? I mean, those who are indicisive and switch thier worship have thier souls turned into furies, right? What about those of us who are in service to one particular god, or those of us who worship the entire pantheon- what happens to our souls then? Are we simply devoured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 It seems to be on a by-case basis. Angron's mortal shell was destroyed at Armageddon, but 400 years later he was brought back by Khorne as a Warp entity. Lucius the Eternal dies over and over again, but is resurrected by Slaanesh in the flesh of his killers. Rubric Marines return to their armor after being "killed" after a certain amount of time. Death seems to have several outs when it comes to Chaos, as long as you're worthy enough to warrant being kept around. I used to theorize that the reason the Emperor never seems to regenerate is because he's still battling Chaos on a psychic level to keep it from resurrecting Horus; the fluff doesn't support that theory anymore, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 It seems to be on a by-case basis. Angron's mortal shell was destroyed at Armageddon, but 400 years later he was brought back by Khorne as a Warp entity. Lucius the Eternal dies over and over again, but is resurrected by Slaanesh in the flesh of his killers. Rubric Marines return to their armor after being "killed" after a certain amount of time. Death seems to have several outs when it comes to Chaos, as long as you're worthy enough to warrant being kept around. I used to theorize that the reason the Emperor never seems to regenerate is because he's still battling Chaos on a psychic level to keep it from resurrecting Horus; the fluff doesn't support that theory anymore, of course. I may be wrong but wasn't Angron already a daemon prince at Armageddon and the Grey Knights Banished him? and being a powerful warp entity means he takes longer to reform than say a bloodletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I may be wrong but wasn't Angron already a daemon prince at Armageddon and the Grey Knights Banished him? and being a powerful warp entity means he takes longer to reform than say a bloodletter. He was indeed, but he'd never lost his actual physical form prior to then. Being a Daemon Prince made from a "mortal" meant he could exist outside the Warp without having to be fed on sacrifice/faith/ritual/*insert summoning routine here*. There are other examples of Daemon Princes being banished and reforming in the Warp over periods of time. You may be on to something, though: DPs seem to take longer than minor daemons to bring back. I think it took M'Kar the Reborn a couple of hundred years to return after dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I believe it mentions somehwere in the current codex that Chaos Marines have one of three ends awaiting them: Spawndom, Daemonhood or the most common, death in battle. Death in battle apparently results in the soul of the Marine being consumed by the Warp, thus strengthening the eternal power of Chaos. I could be wrong though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I believe, in general, you either achieve Daemonhood or be consumed by that which you worship. Rubric Marines return to their armor after being "killed" after a certain amount of time. He was indeed, but he'd never lost his actual physical form prior to then. Being a Daemon Prince made from a "mortal" meant he could exist outside the Warp without having to be fed on sacrifice/faith/ritual/*insert summoning routine here*. I've never heard either of these ideas before. Have any sources for either of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Archmage Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 On rubric marines : according to the Space Wolves book, a Thousand Sons sorcerer can summon a Rubric Marine's spirit back into a fresh suit of armor, thus effectively "resurrecting" it. It sure does explain why there are any of them left after 10 millenia of war. On the Angron stuff, the Chaos Daemons codex seems to suggest that while a Daemon physical form can be destroyed, he can never be truly killed. In short, the same Daemon can come back over and over again. They do take some time to put back together in the warp though. I'm sure Angron is no exeption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 On rubric marines : according to the Space Wolves book, a Thousand Sons sorcerer can summon a Rubric Marine's spirit back into a fresh suit of armor, thus effectively "resurrecting" it. Ah, gotcha, thanks for the response. One more reason to continue ignoring the new Space Wolf book. :P On the Angron stuff, the Chaos Daemons codex seems to suggest that while a Daemon physical form can be destroyed, he can never be truly killed. In short, the same Daemon can come back over and over again. Indeed, that's something that is fairly solid in the background. I'm more curious about the idea that there was something special about Angron's original mortal vessel. AFAIK, it's never even been definitively stated that Angron had never been banished before the first war for Armageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I believe it mentions somehwere in the current codex that Chaos Marines have one of three ends awaiting them: Spawndom, Daemonhood or the most common, death in battle. Death in battle apparently results in the soul of the Marine being consumed by the Warp, thus strengthening the eternal power of Chaos. I could be wrong though... You are right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Archmage Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Indeed, that's something that is fairly solid in the background. I'm more curious about the idea that there was something special about Angron's original mortal vessel. AFAIK, it's never even been definitively stated that Angron had never been banished before the first war for Armageddon. Well, if he had not been banished during the Dominion of Fire (see page 36 of C:CSM), there wouldn't be any reason as to why it eventually died down, seeing how Angron is pretty much a rampaging avatar of death and bloodshed. That's just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I believe it mentions somehwere in the current codex that Chaos Marines have one of three ends awaiting them: Spawndom, Daemonhood or the most common, death in battle. Death in battle apparently results in the soul of the Marine being consumed by the Warp, thus strengthening the eternal power of Chaos. I could be wrong though... Which sounds bad until you realize that those lapdogs of the Emperor have no option beyond dying for their false beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 One more reason to continue ignoring the new Space Wolf book. the book is older then our new dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 He was indeed, but he'd never lost his actual physical form prior to then. Being a Daemon Prince made from a "mortal" meant he could exist outside the Warp without having to be fed on sacrifice/faith/ritual/*insert summoning routine here*. Well, no. The reason Angron lost at Armageddon is because his followers had to waste time building monuments, making sacrifices, etc in order to sustain his form, otherwise the weakening of the warp storms around Armageddon meant he would have to retreat back to the warp. This loss of warmaking initiative allowed the defenders time to retrench and acquire reinforcements, including the Grey Knight chapter that sacrificed themselves to banish him. My understanding is that Daemon Princes do not have "meat" bodies, they are entirely creatures of the warp no matter their origin. They create physical bodies when entering the Materium, but those bodies are unstable without the proper conditions being maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memnoch Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Angron was already a Daemon Prince by Armageddon so wouldnt he have forsaken his physical form by then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 He was indeed, but he'd never lost his actual physical form prior to then. Being a Daemon Prince made from a "mortal" meant he could exist outside the Warp without having to be fed on sacrifice/faith/ritual/*insert summoning routine here*. Well, no. The reason Angron lost at Armageddon is because his followers had to waste time building monuments, making sacrifices, etc in order to sustain his form, otherwise the weakening of the warp storms around Armageddon meant he would have to retreat back to the warp. This loss of warmaking initiative allowed the defenders time to retrench and acquire reinforcements, including the Grey Knight chapter that sacrificed themselves to banish him. My understanding is that Daemon Princes do not have "meat" bodies, they are entirely creatures of the warp no matter their origin. They create physical bodies when entering the Materium, but those bodies are unstable without the proper conditions being maintained. Those sacrifices and monuments weren't for him, they were for his Daemon army and the bulk of his forces. His Bloodthirster bodyguards needed that stuff, not Angron himself. My theory is that a Daemon Prince forged from a mortal shell retains aspects of that shell, making them a superior model to one carved from the Immaterium itself and not subject to instability until its mortal shell is properly slain. That Angron was a Primarch and already basically a pinnacle of a mortal shell prior to his daemonhood suggests he was an immensely powerful Daemon Prince, powerful enough that once he was banished he was worth bringing back into being as a full creature of the Warp. Were he to come back now, then yes, he would require all those ties to the Warp to retain his form, whereas at Armageddon it was for the sake of his army that he had to commit to all that effort. Bear in mind I base this theory entirely on the previous Codex and the instability rules, which all daemons had to test for but Daemon Princes didn't. Since the bulk of the Daemon Princes in fluff all seem to have been mortals, it only seems natural to me that the more powerful the mortal, the more powerful the Daemon Prince, which puts the Daemon Primarchs in the top tier of Daemon Princedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Since the bulk of the Daemon Princes in fluff all seem to have been mortals, it only seems natural to me that the more powerful the mortal, the more powerful the Daemon Prince, which puts the Daemon Primarchs in the top tier of Daemon Princedom. I have to agree with that. Not sure if anyone else has played it, but in the Armageddon board game Angron is a beast, even if he is just one unit counter out of a whole army. He still can destroy entire companies of Space marines and regiments of Imperial Guard, with nothing able to completely stop him except for the Grey Knights (at least in the board game, that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Of War Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 The standard Chaos Marine warband is followed by dozens of daemons.The second one dies, his soul is instantly ripped apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 The standard Chaos Marine warband is followed by dozens of daemons.The second one dies, his soul is instantly ripped apart. I may be wrong... but when a warrior of Chaos dies, doesn't he (his soul, rather) turn into a daemon of his patron deity? One more reason to continue ignoring the new Space Wolf book. the book is older then our new dex. That, and like Cosmic said, there has to be a reason that there are any left. 1000 marines + 10000 years of warfare = 0 marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 I may be wrong... but when a warrior of Chaos dies, doesn't he (his soul, rather) turn into a daemon of his patron deity? nope . essence/soul gets riped apart and demons feast on it . and when he was killed by a mark bearer of a different god , then its not even his gods demons that eat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 and thats probably why we dont get 'and they will know no fear' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't know about souls being "ripped apart". I was under the impression that souls were bartered with and owned by the Chaos Gods, so they could choose to resurrect a champion at will, or sell him off to another god. It's like Eliphas in Dawn Of War 2 - Chaos Rising. He is brought back from the dead by a Daemon because he made a pact with it to restore the Daemon's physical form through sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 lexicanum has it down as "When a follower of a Chaos God dies, their soul is absorbed into the greater mass of that god, adding its energy to the already formidable power of that god". Being that daemons are avatars of the gods this probably could involve them feasting on them. Other possibilities could be the gods torturing them, making them into a nice throne room ornament, or resurrecting them to carry on the entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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