Tabgoi Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Okay, I am just coming back after a long break from playing and picked up the BA codex. Something I noticed pretty quickly was that the captains do not have Rites of Battle. Dante Does, Tyco does, but not the normal captains. At 100 points their base cost is the same as a chaplain (under elites, I know the HQ chaplain is 130), but you get far less bang for your buck. I looked for other threads before posting this, but I did not see any, though I could have just missed it. Other than the increased wargear options is there any reason to actually select a Captain to lead BAs if they do not have Rites of Battle? As I see it you would be better of spending the 30 extra points for the Reclusiarch to get Honor of the Chapter, Liturgies of the Blood, and a power weapon. I know you also have the choice of going after a named leader like Dante or Mephiston, etc. but I have never been big on using the named characters. I like to give them a name, personality, and story of my own. Librarians are another option, and a cheaper one, but they just never seem to bring enough utility to the squads they join for my tastes, though the hoods are nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yep Captains no longer have 'rites of battle' as well as having reduced weapon options/options. The general consensus is that the Reclusiarch or anotehr HQ is the better choice, though perhaps not as fluffy. Sad but that is the way it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 the Reclusiarch now lets your dc reroll failed hits and wounds reclusiarch w/ jp 155pts 5 dc w/ jps/ 3 pws 220pts it's like the dc have lightning claws :), not forgeting all there other bonuses Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 the Reclusiarch now lets your dc reroll failed hits and wounds reclusiarch w/ jp 155pts 5 dc w/ jps/ 3 pws 220pts it's like the dc have lightning claws :), not forgeting all there other bonuses Actually, when using this combination, it might be better to swap the Reclusiarch for Lemartes. He is 5 points cheaper, can't be singled out in close combat and once he's got a wound on him your opponent will weep and cry like a baby when Lemmy hits the lines. :) Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 doesn't lemmy count as part of the dc ?, so he's not an hq choise Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 doesn't lemmy count as part of the dc ?, so he's not an hq choise Yes, that's true. But with JP, you won't be able to control your DC and your HQ choice, so it is more likely for the Reclusiarch to die against oh I don't know a walker or a Nightbringer, you know, that sort of opponents. Lemartes may not be a HQ choice, but his combat power compared to the Reclusiarch is able to compensate this. On topic, I think that Captains got nerfed a little. No artificer armour, silly weapon options(no relic blades, digital weapons, or blade encarmine) and they lost Rites of Battle, a very fluffy yet effective rule. The letter is also true for regular Space Marines, and I really don't know why GW went this way. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The BA captain is pretty pooey. Few upgrade options, notably, no artificer armour. He's barely better than some buffed sgts from The Sanguinor (in CC). He's better than a libby that fails psychic tests, and that's about it. army wide ld 10... may be better once DE become popular (lawl?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2533999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The captain is a poor choice in comparison to what else we have. The lack of Artificer Armor/Relic Blade really hurts him as pretty much anything he can do a Reclusiarch can do better. If the Reclusiarch had not been added to our codex, the captain would get used more as a 3 wound/3 attack non-special character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWhisper Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Dante Does, Tyco does, but not the normal captains. Just for the record, Dante doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Ahh, checked again and you are right, weird that the chapter master of all people would not have it. Thanks for the input everyone, guess I am sticking with a Reclusiarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemisor Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I'm tempted just to use a counts as tyco for a captain. that way for a reasonable price you get rites of battle and some decent war gear. but the current captian is pretty average at best. maybe GW needed to sell more librarian models? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsutter Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I'm tempted just to use a counts as tyco for a captain. that way for a reasonable price you get rites of battle and some decent war gear. That is what I do when I use a captain. I think that "rites of battle" was what made the captain as a viable choice. I would much rather have that as a rule for them than receiving the extra equipment options (although I think that having no artificer armor was pretty lame). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 You only take a captain if you're going to be using the honour guard, which is awesome in its own way albiet theyre very expensive point wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsutter Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 You only take a captain if you're going to be using the honour guard, which is awesome in its own way albiet theyre very expensive point wise. I don't think you need a Captain to have an honor guard in C:BA. I believe it says for every hero or HQ choice, but I don't have the codex on me right now so I may be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2534770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 You only take a captain if you're going to be using the honour guard, which is awesome in its own way albiet theyre very expensive point wise. I don't think you need a Captain to have an honor guard in C:BA. I believe it says for every hero or HQ choice, but I don't have the codex on me right now so I may be wrong. Right you are...you can take an honour guard for every HQ Choice. Yet another reason to leave the Captain in the box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Oh yes, you're right, I guess I'm still thinking of the last edition. Hmmmmm...... Honestl captains are cheap points wise, and are awesome looking models. I say the best time to use them wuld be if you just need a tough unit to dish out pain. Stick a JP, and a PW on him for 135 and he's ready to knock heads. Fact is a captain has a better stat line then any of the other generic HQs short the Reclusiarch, but he is cheaper. Even then, I think I'd only include one in an Apocalypse game where I'd have points to work with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Even in a purely combat role, which BA Captains are relegated to due to having ZERO force multiplying powers, why would you take a Captain when for 30pts you can get re-rolls to hit for your entire squad on the charge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Even in a purely combat role, which BA Captains are relegated to due to having ZERO force multiplying powers, why would you take a Captain when for 30pts you can get re-rolls to hit for your entire squad on the charge? Because you would let him join a squad of Sanguinary Guard and dish out pain. Let the whole squad reroll their hits is overkill, but the Captain adds 6 attacks S5 init 6 on the charge(due to Sanguinary Priest) and that is nothing to laugh at. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterboy Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Even in a purely combat role, which BA Captains are relegated to due to having ZERO force multiplying powers, why would you take a Captain when for 30pts you can get re-rolls to hit for your entire squad on the charge? Because you would let him join a squad of Sanguinary Guard and dish out pain. Let the whole squad reroll their hits is overkill, but the Captain adds 6 attacks S5 init 6 on the charge(due to Sanguinary Priest) and that is nothing to laugh at. Snorri Adding a captain to a squad that is already carrying power weapons is over kill. There is no reason to take a captain unless you want to use one for fluff reasons. A librarian or chaplain adds much more to your army then a captain can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 f i wer to use my captains i would use them counts as chaplins. Although one armed with an infernus did bow up my baal... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Furthermore you are only paying FIFTEEN extra points for the Reclusiarch. I forgot you had to actually buy a captain a power weapon. What a completely rubbish unit entry they are Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2535680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Even in a purely combat role, which BA Captains are relegated to due to having ZERO force multiplying powers, why would you take a Captain when for 30pts you can get re-rolls to hit for your entire squad on the charge? Because you would let him join a squad of Sanguinary Guard and dish out pain. Let the whole squad reroll their hits is overkill, but the Captain adds 6 attacks S5 init 6 on the charge(due to Sanguinary Priest) and that is nothing to laugh at. Snorri Adding a captain to a squad that is already carrying power weapons is over kill. There is no reason to take a captain unless you want to use one for fluff reasons. A librarian or chaplain adds much more to your army then a captain can. Yesterday, my opponent ran a 10 men Sternguard along with Lysander in a pod. They didn't do much against my Baal(which had a coversave due to smokes), and in return I charged them with my Sanguinary Guard with Captain and Priest. Captain took 3 wounds off Lysander, another SG finished him off. The rest chopped the Sternguards before consolidating in cover. In this situation I found the Captain really useful, because Lysander normally is a rock of an enemy. Just unstoppable, that guy. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2536007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterboy Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Even in a purely combat role, which BA Captains are relegated to due to having ZERO force multiplying powers, why would you take a Captain when for 30pts you can get re-rolls to hit for your entire squad on the charge? Because you would let him join a squad of Sanguinary Guard and dish out pain. Let the whole squad reroll their hits is overkill, but the Captain adds 6 attacks S5 init 6 on the charge(due to Sanguinary Priest) and that is nothing to laugh at. Snorri Adding a captain to a squad that is already carrying power weapons is over kill. There is no reason to take a captain unless you want to use one for fluff reasons. A librarian or chaplain adds much more to your army then a captain can. Yesterday, my opponent ran a 10 men Sternguard along with Lysander in a pod. They didn't do much against my Baal(which had a coversave due to smokes), and in return I charged them with my Sanguinary Guard with Captain and Priest. Captain took 3 wounds off Lysander, another SG finished him off. The rest chopped the Sternguards before consolidating in cover. In this situation I found the Captain really useful, because Lysander normally is a rock of an enemy. Just unstoppable, that guy. Snorri I don’t see how that Sanguinary Guard unit preformed any better with a captain versus havig a chaplain or librarian would. If BA captains were like codex: space marine’s captains then they would be worth taking in some list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2536107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Possible reason for a captain in new lists - Lileth Hesperax in DE armies. Gains additinoal attacks equal to the difference between her WS and the highest WS in the enemy unit (so +4A vs Tac marines). I believe that this is in addition to normal 2 CCW attack and possibly additional to charging bonus, and she's got something like 5A anyway. Didnt read through the rest of the Dex to much, but there alone, your captain is saving an I9 PW attack on the squad over a reclusiarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2536312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 she has ws 9, gains the difference in ws as attacks, +ccw,+charge+ 4 base+ has a 3++inv in cc so yea just use an assault cannon on her... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212990-blood-angels-captains/#findComment-2536327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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