Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 1 for being a tank, 4 for having AV 14, nothing for distance moved = 5. Yeah, forgot about the Deathrolla FAQ, my local ork opponents dont use battlewagons often and I just wasnt thinking. Orks make me hungry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 They get 5+ cover not 4+ cover due to 50% obscured (or any obscene self made rule) , whoever said that should be smacked to the head with "codex overrules". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 As far as Tank shock or Ram,Im going to make him declare which he is doing,because if he says Tank shock,then it stops within 1 inch of my vehicles. This is huge, if he was ramming your transports then claiming he also gets the tank shock rule on the troops inside he was flat out abusing the rules. As such was making any type of defense on your part very costly and ineffective. Now having two death rollers one ramming and the other tank shocking is a nasty combo, stop one with all the advise already giving and now he is back to an even playing field. I am a big fan of the Drop Pod tactic, heck put Arjac in one of them with 4 WG with CM and a few chain fists then you have a battle wagon killing unit that can hold their own until you can get up to support them. In an all comers list make sure you have at least one other range oriented pod that can come down on turn 1 in case your opponent starts in reserve. I think it will be a much different game for you when next you meet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 And that is the idea. I have a match with him again next monday and I am going to try and make sure it goes alot better then the last *grins*. And its more that if he declares a Ram,then he can do it. If he declares a Tank shock,he cant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvtalon Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 And that is the idea. I have a match with him again next monday and I am going to try and make sure it goes alot better then the last *grins*. And its more that if he declares a Ram,then he can do it. If he declares a Tank shock,he cant. If his trukks have red paint job they may move 13inches, disembark and charge. Remember that a orc charging from a vehicle can get up to 20-21inches charge from a trukk. Some of you will wounder why... Here is the break down... 13inches (red paint job + open topped vehicle) 2.5 inch to 3.5 inch disembark (this depends on the size of the models base ghazghul and the big mek have a much larger base size. As long as the model touches the 2inch line of disembarking you can claim the extra half inch or so into your calculations. Remember every model that far out must be touching the line every other model piles in. And yes this is legal in tournaments. So were up to 15.5 at max total range just getting out of the trukk depending on if he has a big sized base in the trukk. Now if he does not waaahhh! He will get the 6 inch charge which will give him roughly the 20 to 21 inch charge range. If he waaahhs! Then he will get the d6 fleet then his charge which will give him a 27.5 inch total charge range from a fast vehicle. Deathrollers do not require the vehicle to make difficult terrain tests but they do so on dangerous. Reinforced rams on vehicles allow him to re-roll difficult terrain tests. The best bet you have is to stop the battle wagons with as much long ranged heavy fire power you can. If he runs them side by side focus your heavy fire power on one target till its down. You want to make sure if your able to hit his big mekk battle-wagon and stop it. If the big mekk is in a trukk hiding behind the battle wagons a important rule to remember is that if you can see any facing side from the model shooting you may still hit it. Although the model does get a 4+ cover save. You do have to remember that the firing arch your aiming for any part has to be seen and you may fire at it granting him a 4+ but if your hitting another facing arc or the top of the vehicle then that's a tricky shot offering a 3+ but in most cases it is so hard to tell if the unit will be granted the tricky shot or not so usually it comes down to the 4+. No matter how hard he tries to hide his trukks behind his battle-wagons most units will be able to see and fire at the trukks if need be. With your wolf army you can handle the normal boys with ease if they charge you. But the nobs and death rollers are the problem, if you eliminate the larger transportation units you should have no problem handling them when they are slogging it on foot. Again most battles come down to target priorites as long as you have the proper tools and choose the right targets you will tear almost any opponent apart. Tank shocking.. When he is tank shocking with a death roller he can hit multiple units including vehicles. But he may not claim that he can hit a unit inside a vehicle being transported as well regardless if the vehicle was destroyed or not. Although as long as the tank shocking battle-wagon with death roller is not destroyed or immobilized it may proceed to hit every unit in its path including other vehicles.. But if the death roller does not destroy a vehicle out right when it makes contact then the tank shock will end right there. If the tank shocking battle wagon does destroy the tank then it keeps going until its movement ends or until it fails to destroy a vehicle in its path. -Adept-a-con ruling- Honestly it comes down to how your games workshop judge rules for it. But that's hot it was handled in my last two tournaments I was at. It honestly was a hoot watching me friend roll over 3 lamen russes and a few squads last ard boyz.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Also remember for a vehicle to claim the obscured rule, it goes against the side you are shooting at. So let's say you draw a line and have a side shot but from looking at the entire vehicle you only see 49% of it, however you see 75% of the side you are shooting at, he does not get to claim the obscured rule. 50% of the side you are shooting at has to be obscured for that to happen. Had this little snide rule pulled on me during an Indy GT. I had to use my hand to close my mouth after the judge made the ruling. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvtalon Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Also remember for a vehicle to claim the obscured rule, it goes against the side you are shooting at. So let's say you draw a line and have a side shot but from looking at the entire vehicle you only see 49% of it, however you see 75% of the side you are shooting at, he does not get to claim the obscured rule. 50% of the side you are shooting at has to be obscured for that to happen. Had this little snide rule pulled on me during an Indy GT. I had to use my hand to close my mouth after the judge made the ruling. Vrox. That is true so you gotta be careful what side you are choosing to shoot at and in addition it comes down to the shooters placement vs the targets facing. Which can force a side shot to be called hitting the front arc which can be annoying. I have many people rules lawyer this at my local game shop and its annoying but what can you do. I hate the true line of sight rules some times the do make the game a bit harder then it should be when the person your facing off against tries everything they can to keep you from being allowed a clear shot at his stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 What about using a Lucius Pattern Droppod with Dreadnought. If you go first their is a big chance you can destroy 1 of his battle wagons in an assault phase. Its dirty but hey as long as you can hold up Orks anything goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Id bring in a couple Typhoons, and see how his side armor likes taking the hits. Sure, hes got a KFF in the list *or so Ive gathered* but its a 5+ save, and your going to get damage in their. And of course, as Wilhelm mentioned you can always 'marchblock' with it. 1 strength for being a tank, 4 for AV, means he needs a 5 to glance... not bad. Because the KFF says vehicles get obscured, people play it as 50% cover [which is called obscured] which gives you a 4+ cover save. Q. Can you use the Deffrolla when Ramming vehicles or does it only work when Tank Shocking non-vehicle units? A. The death rolla does indeed inflict D6 S10 hits against vehicles, as Ramming is just a type of Tank Shock. Whilst that seems silly to me, and all for the cost of 2 Fenwolves, unfortunately the Speeder will take d6 s10 hits, if it fails the 3+ skimmer dodge save. I still think it is worth it ;) But yes, it works very well against Raiders, etc. Get right up close to them and they usually have to go round, as a s5 ram is poor against AV10 and then you get the skimmer save ;) Been on beasts of war have we :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Been on beasts of war have we :D No, I have only been twice. After Darrell said flame templates couldn't fire forwards over the Baals, I haven't bothered to look anymore. :) That one was taught to me by Stelek. Just don't tell Grey mage, as he seems to think it is a good idea :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 yeah that was a cheesy ruling with that template, I do love the painting tutorials when i'm painting, feels like painting with a buddy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 What about using a Lucius Pattern Droppod with Dreadnought. If you go first their is a big chance you can destroy 1 of his battle wagons in an assault phase. Its dirty but hey as long as you can hold up Orks anything goes. Most people dont play with IAU2 Been on beasts of war have we ;) No, I have only been twice. After Darrell said flame templates couldn't fire forwards over the Baals, I haven't bothered to look anymore. :) That one was taught to me by Stelek. Just don't tell Grey mage, as he seems to think it is a good idea :P Its ok, Im not opposed to everything he says, just about a third of it- and his attitude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I do love the painting tutorials when i'm painting, feels like painting with a buddy I will check those out :) No sense throwing the baby out with the bath water, eh? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212995-deathrollers-and-orcs/page/2/#findComment-2535886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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