chaos termies, are they really that bad?

[Cornelias]

sometimes i feel with the attitude of some people we should just pack up our little men and buy checkers boards it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper :)

[Shas'o R'Vre]

by throwing a few unusual choices into the mix you make your opponent work a bit harder for victory.

This I agree, but the problem is with Chaos is that there are very few "Unusual" choices that actually work.

[Zhukov]

Thats because our unusual choices arent really different in how they work from other choices, just worse for their cost... Our codex is so depressing haha.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Thats because our unusual choices arent really different in how they work from other choices, just worse for their cost...

Too true. :lol:

 

Our codex is so depressing haha.

Oh I don't know. It's fun to play, there just isn't much variation in it.

[greatcrusade08]

Thats because our unusual choices arent really different in how they work from other choices, just worse for their cost... Our codex is so depressing haha.

 

this is what im slowly discovering with the C:SM.. im still a noob to the dark side.. if theres a unique /unusual choice ill find it... just give me time.

in the mean time ill step in tune with the metagame and play the strongest list i can put out there... termicide it is.

[Master of fact]

To me the Jeske is part of this community and yes while what he says sounds cold and clinical you cant really voice emotion well over forums. His advice is sound and is prtetty bang on metagame wise, i have tailored lists before with his and others input. Of course half the fun is doing your own thing with your armies, i do like my terminators and use them often. Does it mean im maximising chances of winning, not really. But hey its just a game.

[Zeller]

I think our book needs to make up for its lack of modern loyalist tank and weapon technology with the thing that really makes then unique - the warp and technoviruses. Seriously, demonic upgrades like previously booked could give our vehicles the same effect of frag assault launchers, or super awesome invulnerable saves, or even tanks that smack other tanks by shooting lightning bolts from their head lights! But then again, why play Codex: Dark and brooding loyalist marines if you don't want your own wargear? You want TH/SS, frag assault, modern Imperial vehicles, and so forth. Well, we're chaos marines and we've been fighting in the style of the crusades with that level of technology for a long while now. Figure it out.

 

Whenever I use chaos TDA I never leave without 10 of them in a squad. Throw in a reaper or two and you can take out transports from range and slowly wittle them down with TL-boltguns (hate these things with their pathetic rate of fire) before eventually meeting them with mounted chaos marine squads or with the TDA who are still moving up.

[greatcrusade08]

TL bolters are weird, at range they are ok.. close up they are betetr than storm bolters... go figure

[minigun762]

TL bolters are weird, at range they are ok.. close up they are betetr than storm bolters... go figure

 

True but they reinforce the nature of Chaos Terminators as a close range (12") shooting/assault unit, which in all fairness, is something that Loyalist Terminators don't have, at least not as good.

[Xeonic]

The killer for TL bolters is that they simply cannot be used past 12" on the move as chaos terminators don't have the Relentless USR. They instead have a rule stating that they "are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons and may assault after firing with rapid fire and heavy weapons" Codex: Chaos Space Marines P86.

On friendly games you can get opponent permission to treat that as Relentless, but otherwise you get no use of your TL bolters on the move outside of 12".

[Morat68]

No "relentless" is bad. Is there official Warhammer Errata anywhere, their website maybe? Can we interact with them and maybe post something like this where they would ammend the rule?

 

Also I just got into the game by purchasing an army off eBay. The army is centered around 6 termies and a termie-lord. I'm stuck using them so instead of hearing how they suck can someone give me some advice how best to deploy them? I got a LR too if that helps. Is my best bet two squads of termiciders?

[Xeonic]

The official GW chaos marines FAQ can be found on their site under gaming>errata and FAQ>40k

It's over two years old, and doesn't update anything, as GW faqs rarely do, just mostly clarifies some stuff and corrects typos.

If I were dead set on using a termie HQ adn termies(or forced to), I'd just reserve and deep strike them to one of my icons in close proximity to hostiles, preferably behind a rhino or something to give them a cover save so they could charge into combat next turn.

[minigun762]

If I were dead set on using a termie HQ adn termies(or forced to), I'd just reserve and deep strike them to one of my icons in close proximity to hostiles, preferably behind a rhino or something to give them a cover save so they could charge into combat next turn.

 

Agreed.

 

Just build them like a supersized Termicide squad. Everyone gets either a Heavy Flamer or Combi-Weapon.

Take 1-2 Fist weapons for busting armor/MCs and IoCG because you're no longer Fearless.

 

Keep them cheap and flexible.

[the jeske]

which is more or less coming back to the 6 man plasma/melta or the 4 man plas/reaper build with added tzeench lord[i think I remember someone was also using a breath sorc too, but deep strike flamers for me at least seemed always too random.].

 

 

Thats because our unusual choices arent really different in how they work from other choices, just worse for their cost... Our codex is so depressing haha.

 

well I think this is only partly true or at least for some load outs. yes possessed are bad [as in they are the same as zerkers only random] , trying to run hth termis is the same as runing zerkers [and I dont want to go over why they work better] or slogging big units of them [which again sucks a bit because of the small range] is a bit like having NM with sonics etc. Only thing that is a bit different are outflanking chosen [but not the 5 man melta/plas version the same can be done with termicid for less points and less problems with range/ LoSetc] and zilla builds [2xdp 3xdefiler] . 2x8 dudes played a bit like buffed up csm in rhinos of course . technicly should be interesting and different enough to see play in chaos builds . but they dont because the different part when compared to the random aspect/points cost means it is just not worth it.

 

 

 

in the mean time ill step in tune with the metagame and play the strongest list i can put out there... termicide it is.

well I think zhukov said it before [and before that many other people , because this is like the 8th or 9th chaos termi thread I can remember] , that cheap or not the termicid doesnt realy fit in to a 1500 pts chaos army [unless someone goes for an alfa strike/anti meq build with 2xDP 2x5 plas pms 2x4 termicid and 6xoblits ]. which is kind of a sad [again duh] , I realy wish there were more options to chaos build . specialy as at least technicly Thorpe fit legions and countless renegade chapters in to it.

[Prot]

Holy Chaos dungbeetle, is this turning into another we hate the current Chaos codex thread? Put your sticks away, the horse is d-e-a-d.

 

I'll tell you there's nothing wrong with making a fun Chaos list using Termies.... but be realistic, VERY few of the codexes use Termies properly. Not just Chaos.

 

Be creative.... I enjoyed some twin linked claws for my World Eaters.... for my Red Corsairs, I did a Lash whip Sorcerer Termie dude, with a template, and a squad of heavy flamers/flamers. The first time I pulled this on an Ork army it was so SWEET. My opponent had no idea what I was doing.... I lashed a pretty sizable Ork squad into a GIANT tear drop shape and dropped 5 templates on him... no saves.

 

BUT once they know you're rolling with that kind of trickery, even an Ork player avoids it. Anyway, try stuff for fun. If you're playing just to win, and win alone, go through the million threads on Oblits/dual lash/D.P. posts.

 

I do think Chaos Termies should be something really special though. Those are the guys... some of them at least that would have been there... at Terra. In a way, these are 'our Grey Knights'. They are the polar opposite of Grey Knights, but cooler, and probably have more facial hair. Currently their rules do not reflect that, but then again, neither do Grey Knight rules.

[minigun762]

They are the polar opposite of Grey Knights, but cooler, and probably have more facial hair.

 

Oddly enough I always imagine my Chaos Marines as bald, scar ridden bad&$@es with a complete lack of hair.

 

Something about being in the warp makes me think it will mess with your 'do.

[Xeonic]

... but be realistic, VERY few of the codexes use Termies properly. Not just Chaos.

Codex Space Marines? Hammernators are 200 pts for 5, excellent transport options in the LRC and LRR. Hell, even Tac termies have assault cannon and heavy2 cyclone launchers.

Codex: Dark Angels? Mixed assault/tac termies means you can take a heavy flamer in a twin claws or hammernator unit and stuff them in a LRC. Only 5 man units and 4++ storm shields but really still competitive(well stupid FAQ note about opponent permission notwithstanding), with termie command squad being generally an awesome fluff option and termies as troops without a super expensive character.

Codex: Black Templars? Lightning Claw termies with Furious charge and Preferred enemy. Enough said. Also Tac termies with Tank hunters.

Codex: Space Wolves? Interestingly one of the worst use of termies, though they're nearly as configurable as chaos termies and can also be taken as any size unit(s), or broken down and attached to other squads as non ICs, or both(!!). Can be troops, but this requires an expensive, but very killy special character. Can't deepstrike. :)

Codex: Blood Angels? Furious charge and feel no pain via sang. priests with potentially deep striking land raiders. Scared yet? :)

Codex: Daemonhunters? Everyone can have a relic blade or TH/SS(4++ though) and they all have WS5, plus your non IC leader(rather he's an IC but under the retinue rules can't be targeted if they're purchased from his unit entry) has a force weapon that can kill Eternal Warrior enemies, as well as an infinite range psychic hood, hooray! Also enjoy heavy flamers that ignore invuln saves.

Codex: Orks? Meganobs can be taken as troops and have 2 wounds, hooray! (just as an example, don't exterminatus me!) ;)

 

Okay, so not all the above options are cheap or even "competitively costed" but they're all extremely powerful options in their own right.

 

Be creative.... I enjoyed some twin linked claws for my World Eaters.... for my Red Corsairs, I did a Lash whip Sorcerer Termie dude, with a template, and a squad of heavy flamers/flamers. The first time I pulled this on an Ork army it was so SWEET. My opponent had no idea what I was doing.... I lashed a pretty sizable Ork squad into a GIANT tear drop shape and dropped 5 templates on him... no saves.

Not entirely certain that's a legit move, as all shooting a unit does(and an IC is part of the unit) is supposed to happen simultaneously and Lash is a shooting phase attack...is it a shooting power? I'm not sure.

 

I do think Chaos Termies should be something really special though. Those are the guys... some of them at least that would have been there... at Terra. In a way, these are 'our Grey Knights'. They are the polar opposite of Grey Knights, but cooler, and probably have more facial hair. Currently their rules do not reflect that, but then again, neither do Grey Knight rules.

Grey Knights are due for an update and I'm sure they'll be powered up to be similar to other competitive options. I personally feel they'd be competitive if they just gave their SS a 3++ and tweaked the costings and modernized the unit entry a little(make GKGM real ICs for one, don't let them hide in their retinue!).

 

I agree though on the count that the chaos termie entry needs some love, but an effective chaos land raider revamp would go a long ways towards this too, because as-is the only really effective way to deliver them is Icons, which doesn't do us all that much good when we have to sit there and be shot to death by every AP2 weapon in the opponent's army for our pains.

 

...I'll admit I've been tempted by the dark gods to use a unit of Tz termies with Khârn in a land raider just for their ability to soak his friendly fire wounds a bit successfully when compared to zerkers.

[Prot]

Not entirely certain that's a legit move, as all shooting a unit does(and an IC is part of the unit) is supposed to happen simultaneously and Lash is a shooting phase attack...is it a shooting power? I'm not sure.

 

Well no one has seen it as non-legit. I 've had it done to me by other units.... besides, you just drop the HQ separately then, it doesn't break the combo.

 

For the record, Lash is a psychic attack, which takes place during the Shooting Phase.

 

I'm still thinking most Termies are not as awesome as they should be. And the Grey Knight codex might get more 'awesome' but we'll see what the points cost turn out to be.

 

And... don't even talk to me about Space Wolves Termies.... I've tried all variants you can imagine and they are amazing models that stink in real game play.

[travh20]

They just dont really furfill any role.

 

 

They look cool as hell though :)

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

They just dont really furfill any role.

 

 

They look cool as hell though :tu:

 

 

FUNCTION OVER FORM!! FUNCTION OVER FORM!! :tu:

[Argon]

To make matters worse it is actually 18" (12" + 6" from moving) as we don't have Relentless

 

About that.....

 

The following is a direct quote from the wargear entry for Terminator armor on page 86:

 

Models in Terminator Armour are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons and may assault after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons.

 

That sounds like very much like Relentless to me.

 

 

Holy Chaos dungbeetle, is this turning into another we hate the current Chaos codex thread? Put your sticks away, the horse is d-e-a-d.

 

Given the number of those threads, I'm pretty sure there isn't anything even vaguely resembling a horse or horse-shaped object anymore.

[the jeske]

That sounds like very much like Relentless to me.

nope. that sounds like being able to charge after using hvy/rapid fire weapons and moving with heavis. If the word relentless aint used the rule does not exist for the unit.

[Chengar Qordath]

To make matters worse it is actually 18" (12" + 6" from moving) as we don't have Relentless

 

About that.....

 

The following is a direct quote from the wargear entry for Terminator armor on page 86:

 

Models in Terminator Armour are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons and may assault after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons.

 

That sounds like very much like Relentless to me.

It is very much like Relentless, but it is not Relentless. In particular, Chaos Terminators can not move, and then count as standing still when shooting a rapid-fire weapon.

[BragolGurth]

Well Im new to the site but i've been playing for awhile... So I hope you Dont mind if i put my 2 cents...

But one strategy I use That works pretty well I have Bezerkers w/ an icon in a rhino that charges in and gets as close to combat as possible then I use the the icon to bring in the termies... I typically have 6 termies all champions w/ a termie sorc w/ wind of chaos and that typically creates a storm of close combat that anyone i've run into has yet to survive... albeit theyve been shot to hell and if the termies get delayed to many turns there isnt much of a zerk force left to reinforce

[Brother Nihm]

Well Im new to the site but i've been playing for awhile... So I hope you Dont mind if i put my 2 cents...

But one strategy I use That works pretty well I have Bezerkers w/ an icon in a rhino that charges in and gets as close to combat as possible then I use the the icon to bring in the termies... I typically have 6 termies all champions w/ a termie sorc w/ wind of chaos and that typically creates a storm of close combat that anyone i've run into has yet to survive... albeit theyve been shot to hell and if the termies get delayed to many turns there isnt much of a zerk force left to reinforce

Question is what do you do when the Terminators become available on Turn 2, or Turn 3; if the 'Zerkers haven't arrived yet (e.g. Rhino is stunned, destroyed) ?