chaos termies, are they really that bad?

[BragolGurth]

I deploy my rhino as far forward as i can and on my first turn move it as far as possible and pop smoke.... typically i aim to have the termies come in on the 3rd turn as thats when i have my zerkers out and charging if not already in close combat so that the termies can come up and reinforce, but if they come in on the 2nd turn i drop them behind the rhino and just follow the zerkers out... ive yet to have anyone wreck or destroy my rhino before ive moved the rhino where i wanted it... so ill have to think of what i want to do then...

[the jeske]

ive yet to have anyone wreck or destroy my rhino before ive moved the rhino where i wanted it

0_o against what kind of armies do you play , because if they cant pop rhinos how do they deal with other mecha [which is how almost all armies are played] or IG ?

[Shas'o R'Vre]

ive yet to have anyone wreck or destroy my rhino before ive moved the rhino where i wanted it

0_o against what kind of armies do you play , because if they cant pop rhinos how do they deal with other mecha [which is how almost all armies are played] or IG ?

Yeah, this. Mine only ever seem to survive when they are hiding out of sight/obscured behind my Raider/Cover. Dreading it when my opponent finally gets his MM/HF Landspeeders...

[Corby]

you may as well say magic . am asking how.

I do! It all depends on your play skill, your opponent's play skill, both of your army's make up, terrain, game type, and lastly the dice. I can't possibly write something short with all of those random variables, so all I can say is it's magic. I use them, it beats all those things you've said, I can't explain it just does.

 

why wouldnt anyone need set ups for an army that crushes bad builds only

Never said that. This is twice you've put words in my mouth; please stop. It's simple logic that good builds crush bad builds in some cases. Good builds vs good builds just balances out and who knows who will win.

 

I wouldn't agree with that. It comes down to the ability of the General. A Good general with a bad build can still beat a good build with a bad general.

[the jeske]

A Good general with a bad build can still beat a good build with a bad general.

how many good gamers do you know that like to play against bad players ?

[Corby]

A Good general with a bad build can still beat a good build with a bad general.

how many good gamers do you know that like to play against bad players ?

 

Thats not what I said.

 

I was saying that in the event a bad general with a good build plays a Good general with a bad build ( can happen in tournament , pick up play etc.)

I mean , if you've never played against a particular individual before, you have no idea of their ability as a genereal , they could be using a good build , but they have no idea how to maximise its potential. In that case the good general with the bad build vs the bad general with good build applys.

[minigun762]

Has anyone had any luck running large squads of Terminators as tarpit units?

 

I keep thinking back to the advantages of Chaos Terminators over Loyalist and the cheaper pricetag seems like the biggest selling point.

 

10 naked Terminators is 300 points, add on some basic weapons and you could get the squad to 350 points. Thats 2 heavy slots or 1.5 troops worth of points which is substantial but its also 10 2+/5++ wounds with 20 Power Weapon attacks a minimum.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Has anyone had any luck running large squads of Terminators as tarpit units?

 

I keep thinking back to the advantages of Chaos Terminators over Loyalist and the cheaper pricetag seems like the biggest selling point.

 

10 naked Terminators is 300 points, add on some basic weapons and you could get the squad to 350 points. Thats 2 heavy slots or 1.5 troops worth of points which is substantial but its also 10 2+/5++ wounds with 20 Power Weapon attacks a minimum.

The only problem I have with this is I have nowhere to put them. DSing will give my opponent a turn of Plasma Fire, and the Raider isn't large enough...

 

Chaos Termies would kick serious Loyalist Butt, if it weren't for outdated rules and equipment (namely no Relentless, No Fearless and Land Raider size)

[the jeske]

how do you get those in to hth range , so they can tar pit something . and even if you do run this single squad the points for it have to come from somewhere. we cant cut troops . So what we are left is either the second DP or the oblits . A single DP is not enough to buy this unit , even if we cut 2 oblits it is still not enough . so lets say we cut a DP 2 oblits and drop one of our troops to 5 man naked plasma PMs . sudenly we have a 10 man termi unit with lots of power weapon attacks ... that cant get in to hth because we cut our anti tank by half[DP and oblits out , not counting the melta on the pms here] . So what do we do we put combis on the whole unit and fists [because before MC and walkers were tar piting/killing us] .now we cost 360+ pts. more then 1/5 of all points in a single unit that we took to tar pit stuff[that can run if 3 termis die from shoting]. Because we dont have relentless[cant realy use plasma combis] and slogging makes to many of the termis dead we make another list , so this time we deep strike . well we deep strike and we A encounter the beauty of imperial inq with mystics and the fact that while 3 termi bases are easy to place 10 termi bases are not , and we are still killing the same number of units with our combis as a 3 man squad. So we play some more games and decide to split . 2x5 same load out [well we cut one fist ] bigger chance of seeing them drop and now are possible to counter 2 units with the same points[technicly] unlike before . and what happens ? when before counter units were avoiding our 10 man termi unit unless those were realy death stars[like 4 guards swarmlords and a prime in same unit] , suddenly we are getting charged and wiped :) we go sad panda , but still 5 combis are poping those transports/tanks. more testing makes us rethink the 5 man units . we know that if we go the "4 man or start droping fists etc" way we will end up with termicid . So we go for one squad but bigger then normal [and our pms are suddenly normal sized again] . what do we find out ? counter units still kill us , we still have problems with catching stuff in hth so being tar pit aint viable , we still are not cheap [6 dudes 2 fists 6 combis or 5 dudes and a reaper] and we still make our anti tank suck .

But you dont have to trust me , just go and play those 6 games with each termi variation in a chaos list.

[minigun762]

Shas and Jeske, you both have completely valid points. I'll be the first to admit I'm grasping at straws here and trying hard to see the silver lining.

 

I guess I had imagined it working in larger games where we deploy them away from our main army to contest a flank by themselves.

I have heard of it being done somewhat successfully with TH/SS and I'm trying to mimic that approach relying more on the cheaper cost of our Terminators to compensate for the better gear of Loyalist ones.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Has anyone had any luck running large squads of Terminators as tarpit units?

 

I used to try that, using squads of six Termies with Icon of Nurgle to try and tie up enemy units; didn't work as well as hoped. Then I tried using Possessed for that role, usually a gang of seven or eight of them, and they did okay until the IG Codex came out. Now I almost exclusively use Lesser Daemons for that job, just because a mob of 10 of them can make life a nightmare for someone's ultra-expensive Elites if you lock them in CC. The problem is that if the LDs win, they tend to wither to hails of gunfire in the same fashion Possessed did, only faster because of no Armor save, and without the sweeping/consolidate/assault like the previous edition had, well. . .at least it's just 13 point Lessers, right? :D

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Shas and Jeske, you both have completely valid points. I'll be the first to admit I'm grasping at straws here and trying hard to see the silver lining.

 

I guess I had imagined it working in larger games where we deploy them away from our main army to contest a flank by themselves.

I have heard of it being done somewhat successfully with TH/SS and I'm trying to mimic that approach relying more on the cheaper cost of our Terminators to compensate for the better gear of Loyalist ones.

Doesn't work in normal 40k, although this could work en-masse with Apocalypse

 

*goes away to mathhammer an Apocalypse army entirely using Terminators... Lead by Abbaddon and Typhus... :D*

[Seahawk]

I wouldn't agree with that.

That's why I said only in some cases does that happen, not most or all :lol:.

 

Oh, and the silly terminator formation in Apocalypse is great fun. I never play as chaos without it.

[TheGerman]

I didnt read anything really but I think their alright since I dont have any other elite choices so I just deep strike them wherever and so far they do alright I use them to pop weak vehicles and their decent. I mena I don't rely on them BUT I got them for free so I can't complain I throw them out there to troll them enemy and so far I haven't really been let down by them I just run bread and butter ones and one auto cannon oh and chain fists. and the champion has lightning claws

[tommytsv30]

The way i use my terminators is just a plain unit of 5 no upgrades 150 points they will draw firepower. they go alright but the trick is to use them as 3rd party support not a game winning unit. they have always gotten equal or more of there points back you just have to be smart.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Thread rezzing must be en vogue during Capricorn. :tu:

[Brother Nihm]

I do sense a trend. :tu:

[Madcap]

Sorry to add further thread necromancy to this unholy golem of death... or maybe that is fluffy for this forum. ;)

 

Anyway, I had a couple of odd-ball ideas based around termi-cide... the Termi-nought.

 

Consider this for an Elite choice:

 

Chaos Dreadnought

Twin-linked Autocannon

110 pts.

 

vs.

 

3 Chaos Terminators

a-Reaper Autocannon, b-Chainfist, c-Icon of Chaos Glory

140 pts.

 

OR

 

Chaos Dreadnought

Extra DCCW, Heavy Flamer

105 pts.

 

vs.

 

3 Chaos Terminators

a-Heavy Flamer, b-Chainfist, c-Chainfist + Icon of Chaos Glory

135 pts.

 

Terminators:

* cost more.

* can flee (though Icon mitigates this somewhat).

* can be brought down by loads of small arms fire (eventually).

* has 1 fewer A than Dreadnought, at I 1, vs. vehicles.

* don't have smoke launchers.

but:

* can deep strike (or put in a Land Raider, I suppose).

* can't be killed by a single lascannon (meltaguns still an issue, but they are an issue with dreadnoughts anyway).

* can pop Rhinos or equiv. at range w/ autocannon.

* can shoot and assault more MEQ than dreadnought (though some attacks will be at I 1).

* for a few more points, could have some bonus weapons added, like combi-melta/flamers or more fists.

* easier to hide and get cover.

* don't GO CRAZY!!!

 

Okay, so 2 Obliterators are still more cost effective. But these are just some alternative ideas for when your HS slots are full for higher point games.

[nurglez]

I have actually been toying with the idea of a chaos termie wing just for fun.

 

Abaddon

25 termies (215 points for upgrades)

2x5 man squads, melta gun icon chaos in rhinos.

1500 points.

 

Now I'm sure this wont do as well as my renegade logan wing will, but I think it would be fun :unsure:

 

give it a few weeks I might even get a game :cuss