Shadow Force Dragomir - A Raven Guard Army

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Is your dreadnought supposed to whack people with the sphere while running around like a headless chicken? :)

 

And thanks for the tutorial, I think I'll try and totally fail it.

[d@n]

how did you remove the insignia and other detail of those SW legs BA so smoothly.

[SCC]

Is your dreadnought supposed to whack people with the sphere while running around like a headless chicken? :)

 

And thanks for the tutorial, I think I'll try and totally fail it.

Patience and a nice, relaxed grip on the brush are the keys my friend, try it on a mini with some nice sharp edges first time out - use some Mk.VI legs and a Mk.VII helm, they're probably the easiest ones to get the balance right on when you're experimenting with this recipe.

 

@d@n: I carefully shaved the majority of the detail I wanted to remove off with a brand spanking new hobby blade and then I used a variety of sand paper grades to smooth the remains and ensure I kept the normal curve of the armour intact. I get my sandpaper from the local hardware store, I've got some 400 grit paper for working with metal but mostly I use 800 adn 1200 grip wet/dry paper. It can take a while to sand off detail but you get excellent control - you can fold, bend and roll it to reach hard to get to areas, particularly using damp paper, and it's pretty easy to keep the detail and shapes you want with the really fine stuff too.

 

I also have two minor tricks, one for plastic models - a dab of plastic glue - it 'melts' plastic and can be used to reshape plastic in limited amounts. If you leave a score mark or scratch where you want a smooth finish you can dab on some glue, give it a few moments then smear it (I use a damp finger) to smooth the plastic a little. Once you've got a consistent base let it cure then come back with your fine sandpaper and smooth it off. Judging the amount of glue to use, the finger-smoothing and just how far the technique goes takes a little practice - I recommend you trial the technique with some sprue rather than a figure.

 

The second trick works for any model - easy fill wall filler, again, you can pick it up in a hardware store dirt cheap. Basically you're looking for a nice soft putty that you can work dry or wet, it's great for filling in tiny gaps or divots - don't use it to gap fill joins between arms or to sculpt or support anything, but it can be used to give a nice solid and smooth surface to sand. I use it on resins a lot, it's much easier to slap it onto tiny imperfections in resin, damp it down with some water and smooth it with a finger than it is to mix up some green-stuff and then smooth that out with vaseline, tools and all that nonsense.

 

Always let it cure for at least 12 and preferably 24 hours before sanding, I usually also seal any wall puttied areas with an enamel varnish before undercoating just to make sure there will be no peeling issues down the track.

 

Finally a good quality undercoat (read: spray) is essential for any smooth paint job. GW primers are decent, if pricey, but again, the hardware store often yields good quality primer for much less than a hobby store.

 

As always experiment of sprue with the wall putty and any non-hobby primer before risking your models!

[d@n]

thats awesome thanks, i will give that a try thanks.

[SCC]

Is your dreadnought supposed to whack people with the sphere while running around like a headless chicken? ;)

Just to calm CMID down here's an update on the weekend's work on Pallas:

The torso is now mostly done, though technically he's still headless I suppose. I still need to work on the exhausts a little more, they're a touch flat right now, and there's some minor touch ups required to make sure my black areas are properly black but I'm pretty happy with the work I've done to this point.

I'm currently facing a number of dilemmas for the remainder of the model:

1. What colour to paint the head?
   
2. How/what colour to paint the DCCW?
   
3. What colours to paint the banner?
   

Currently I'm leaning towards keeping the helm/head (not in place) black, although white is also a possibility. White would help it serve as a focal point but I think attention is already drawn by the chest detail and I don't want to have the two competing as such. Black would also ensure the mini is black, Black, BLACK. Fluff-wise white seems more likely, Dreadnought are mostly piloted by veteran sergeants, captains and so forth who would likely have earned a white helm before their incapacitation.

The second question is equally vexing. I've not yet painted a PW for this army, I've been avoiding it as I can't make up my mind which way to go. I could go with something bright like blue or green to add some colour to the army, but that of course violates the rule of three B's ( black, Black, BLACK ). Metallic silver is a possibility of course and would be 'functional' and thus in keeping with that side of the army.

A third option is actually to paint them black - gloss black, possibly with super fine silver or white highlights on the highest points in stead of grey. I'd probably aim for something like obsidian black - glossy with just a hint of purple for the main body. Each DCCW blade on this mini has skulls and parchment atop it which would help separate the blade from the wrist and by keeping everything black or bone it'd tie the claw into the rest of the figure quite well I think.

The last item is the banner. Normally I wouldn't add a banner to a Dread but the FW one is really nice. I'm trying to decide what colour to do the cloth - black with a white raven, white with a black raven or possibly the Company colour (green) which could have either a white or a black raven I suppose.

Thoughts and advice welcome dear readers...

[Generating Random Name...]

I'm currently facing a number of dilemmas for the remainder of the model:

1. What colour to paint the head?
   
2. How/what colour to paint the DCCW?
   
3. What colours to paint the banner?
   

 

....

 

Thoughts and advice welcome dear readers...

 

1. I would say white, mainly because I just can't see a black helm. If you really don't want a white helm to be distracting, say he was a normal marine interred for being so awsome that the world nearly imploded.

2. Dunno???

3. I think it would look nice in black with a white raven, and green (Company colour) trim.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Ah, so now he's a headless chicken with something bigger to whack people with.

 

1. Paint the head white. It might get lost in the Black Sea otherwise.

2. Paint the CCW black, with weathering and chips. Surely you don't expect the chapter to trust a headless chicken with an activated fist? But seriously, paint it black.

[Ace Debonair]

Dude, awesome dreadnought. It's not even finished, and it's still awesome. :wacko:

 

[*]What colour to paint the head?

[*]How/what colour to paint the DCCW?

[*]What colours to paint the banner?

 

1. Black. Definitely. But, you could always consider a central white stripe if denoting veterancy is an issue?

2. I'd lean towards silver, but the obsidian/black thing sounds good. You could always go with very very dark green rather than purple, just because it's the company colour. :ph34r:

3. Black with white raven. Maybe some company green on the shields at the bottom?

[tagsta]

Is your dreadnought supposed to whack people with the sphere while running around like a headless chicken? :wacko:

Just to calm CMID down here's an update on the weekend's work on Pallas:

The torso is now mostly done, though technically he's still headless I suppose. I still need to work on the exhausts a little more, they're a touch flat right now, and there's some minor touch ups required to make sure my black areas are properly black but I'm pretty happy with the work I've done to this point.

I'm currently facing a number of dilemmas for the remainder of the model:

1. What colour to paint the head?
   
2. How/what colour to paint the DCCW?
   
3. What colours to paint the banner?
   

Currently I'm leaning towards keeping the helm/head (not in place) black, although white is also a possibility. White would help it serve as a focal point but I think attention is already drawn by the chest detail and I don't want to have the two competing as such. Black would also ensure the mini is black, Black, BLACK. Fluff-wise white seems more likely, Dreadnought are mostly piloted by veteran sergeants, captains and so forth who would likely have earned a white helm before their incapacitation.

The second question is equally vexing. I've not yet painted a PW for this army, I've been avoiding it as I can't make up my mind which way to go. I could go with something bright like blue or green to add some colour to the army, but that of course violates the rule of three B's ( black, Black, BLACK ). Metallic silver is a possibility of course and would be 'functional' and thus in keeping with that side of the army.

A third option is actually to paint them black - gloss black, possibly with super fine silver or white highlights on the highest points in stead of grey. I'd probably aim for something like obsidian black - glossy with just a hint of purple for the main body. Each DCCW blade on this mini has skulls and parchment atop it which would help separate the blade from the wrist and by keeping everything black or bone it'd tie the claw into the rest of the figure quite well I think.

The last item is the banner. Normally I wouldn't add a banner to a Dread but the FW one is really nice. I'm trying to decide what colour to do the cloth - black with a white raven, white with a black raven or possibly the Company colour (green) which could have either a white or a black raven I suppose.

Thoughts and advice welcome dear readers...

I would suggest a white head, green banner and black DCCW :ph34r:

[Olis]

I would suggest a white head, green banner and black DCCW ;)

 

I'd second that. Or perhaps a more traditional blue for the DCCW. Splash of colour. :)

[One-eye]

I'd probably go with a white head also, because it has to focus attention on such a model imho. For the banner, a white raven to go with the one on the left leg. For PW and DCCW, I'd choose probably silver or dark green, to stay within the "3 color max" (black, white, green). Black is a possibility, but it will be very difficult to achieve an obsidian look. But with your talent, everything's possible :P

 

Really fond of your models btw.

[d@n]

i would go with white head and arms, as dreads are blocky and need some contrast

[Pulse]

White head. :D

[SCC]

Thanks for the replies guys, I quickly knocked over the head in a black version - I kind of over-compensated with the highlights here, they need to be toned down but the idea is viable:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/img-300/uploads/1305497049/gallery_385_5278_71222.jpg

It's certainly not hard to see, but it's not exactly super-awesome-cool-errific looking either. It does fit with the black theme. I'll consider the white helm some more...

And the in-progress banner:

It looks much better in this pic than in real life, I'm not particularly happy with either the black or the white really. Still, I'm not required to add it to the mini if I'm not happy with the end result, am I?

[Olis]

It looks much better in this pic than in real life, I'm not particularly happy with either the black or the white really. Still, I'm not required to add it to the mini if I'm not happy with the end result, am I?

 

Well, no, not really (if you don't want to). It'd be nice to see it attached though - blu-tac is your friend for that (doubtless you already know - but hey). The black head looks alright. Is it going to be worth it painting the damned thing white, now it has a paintjob?

 

Brief idea: How about freehanding a white raven on the helmet (over the face a la Black Templars and maltese crosses)?

[Foehammer888]

Helmet

I like the black. The only thing that might work better to make it look like the "stalking black predator in the dark" is to make the eyes brighter. A really bright, sinister red or green.

 

DCCW

Not sure if you're familiar with it at all, but in the Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon, episode 3.12, there is a point in the end where a warrior fights with a "dark sabre", essentially a black light saber. They used some interesting coloring techniques to give it an energy/lighting feel to the edges while keeping it looking black. Might be something to look into. Probably find it on the internet.

 

The other idea might be to paint the cables going too the fist with a bright color/sense of energy rather than the fist itself.

 

Banner

I've found white and black to not work particularly well on cloth. Highlighting is either too subtle and not noticeable, or too stark and looks bad. Maybe make this a focal point of the miniature and reverse some of your colors. Green cloth, white raven, black trim, or Black Raven and white trim (based upon how light/dark your green is).

Edited May 16, 2011 by Foehammer888

[SCC]

It looks much better in this pic than in real life, I'm not particularly happy with either the black or the white really. Still, I'm not required to add it to the mini if I'm not happy with the end result, am I?

Well, no, not really (if you don't want to). It'd be nice to see it attached though - blu-tac is your friend for that (doubtless you already know - but hey). The black head looks alright. Is it going to be worth it painting the damned thing white, now it has a paintjob?

Brief idea: How about freehanding a white raven on the helmet (over the face a la Black Templars and maltese crosses)?

Honestly Olis the black recipe I use is dead easy, the helmet took less than 10 min all up so it's no major loss to go white.

@Foehammer: Hmm, the eyes have to be yellow, like the rest of the army, I like the 'birdy' quality to it. I am familiar with SW TCW but I'm only half way through Season 2. I might jump ahead to look at 3.12 though, that black lightsaber sounds interesting...

In the meantime I've been considering all the advice offered here and looking over my army and trying to decide what would fit best and it occurred to me that, for the helmet at least, that compromise might be the solution:

Half black, half white, a bit like Olisredan suggested but without me having to freehand anything :lol:

In this configuration Pallas' helm matches a couple of other white 'beaked' Battle Brothers and the white draws the eye whilst the black ensure it isn't too bright. I think it ties in nicely with the wings (both sets) but still maintains the dark RG look I'm fashioning with the rest of the army.

As for the banner, well, the last time I actually painted a Marine with a back banner was back in the very earliest days of 3rd Ed - a DA sergeant with a dead simple back banner. I've never been a huge fan of Marines with back banners, but I can see the attraction of Marines holding standards and even Dreadnoughts with banners - they are, after all, mighty heroes and symbols of inspiration. Plus, it's not like they can really hide on too many battlefields so why not pronounce your awesome-ness to everyone with a banner?

And with the banner in place I quite like the look of Pallas here. I'm happy with the black/white/green scheme and the prominence of each too. The issue remains however painting black and white cloth, I know I can paint green cloth but I just don't think it'd work, plus that still leaves the white cloth. I wonder if silver is a possibility? I think I could manage silver.

As for the black, I had tried to use a black-green highlight but I don't think it's really working so I may just with a grey-black look. I'll keep trying I think but if I can't pull it off soon the banner may have to wait for another day - play, not display!

[celes]

Perfect.

[commander alexander]

I think it looks really good without the banner TBO. Edited May 17, 2011 by commander alexander

[snorkle]

Awesome stuff. I've been following this thread since it started and lo and behold I forget for a month and there's already more RG for me to enjoy :)

 

The dread is looking great. I was gonna suggest the half and half scheme, but it looks like you beat me to it. ^_^

As for the banner I really like it, but I'm just not a fan of back banners, especially on dreads. And from a logistical standpoint how would he fit in the droppod? :P

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Definitely the right choice with the head. Are you sure you want the banner on the dread? Maybe you could use it to spruce up your bikers.

[Seva]

Is your dreadnought supposed to whack people with the sphere while running around like a headless chicken? ^_^

Just to calm CMID down here's an update on the weekend's work on Pallas:

The torso is now mostly done, though technically he's still headless I suppose. I still need to work on the exhausts a little more, they're a touch flat right now, and there's some minor touch ups required to make sure my black areas are properly black but I'm pretty happy with the work I've done to this point.

I'm currently facing a number of dilemmas for the remainder of the model:

1. What colour to paint the head?
   
2. How/what colour to paint the DCCW?
   
3. What colours to paint the banner?
   

Currently I'm leaning towards keeping the helm/head (not in place) black, although white is also a possibility. White would help it serve as a focal point but I think attention is already drawn by the chest detail and I don't want to have the two competing as such. Black would also ensure the mini is black, Black, BLACK. Fluff-wise white seems more likely, Dreadnought are mostly piloted by veteran sergeants, captains and so forth who would likely have earned a white helm before their incapacitation.

The second question is equally vexing. I've not yet painted a PW for this army, I've been avoiding it as I can't make up my mind which way to go. I could go with something bright like blue or green to add some colour to the army, but that of course violates the rule of three B's ( black, Black, BLACK ). Metallic silver is a possibility of course and would be 'functional' and thus in keeping with that side of the army.

A third option is actually to paint them black - gloss black, possibly with super fine silver or white highlights on the highest points in stead of grey. I'd probably aim for something like obsidian black - glossy with just a hint of purple for the main body. Each DCCW blade on this mini has skulls and parchment atop it which would help separate the blade from the wrist and by keeping everything black or bone it'd tie the claw into the rest of the figure quite well I think.

The last item is the banner. Normally I wouldn't add a banner to a Dread but the FW one is really nice. I'm trying to decide what colour to do the cloth - black with a white raven, white with a black raven or possibly the Company colour (green) which could have either a white or a black raven I suppose.

Thoughts and advice welcome dear readers...

Awesome thread! The black on these guys is great and the army goes together nicely. About the dread, I think the head looks good black but have you thought about giving the eyes some source lighting? Making them and the area around them all glowy? I would love to see obsidian looking claws. With all the black I think it will be difficult to pull off but I am confident that you can do it. I await your results and good luck! I can't wait to see it.

[Psy-Crow]

Just a quick thankyou for the tutorial, really helped with my black.

[SCC]

Definitely the right choice with the head. Are you sure you want the banner on the dread? Maybe you could use it to spruce up your bikers.

I'm actually thinking of doing an Armies on Parade style display base for the army, if I do that I could mount the banner on top of the battlements or similar. The more I struggle with the banner the closer I get to 'play, not display'ing and leaving it off.

@Snorkle & Alexander: I could never figure out banners either, even on Sergeants and Captains they seem impractical to say the least and my RG are the epitome of practical which only strengthens the case for leaving it off at this point...

@Seva: OSL eyes are a bit too showy for my version of the RG I think.

@Psy-Crow: You're welcome, be sure to come back and show us how your minis turned out (assuming they're board appropriate of course!).

This is a model I've been working on as a side project - Librarian Dienekes, he's a Vengeance Hawk (Brother Tyler's DIY) and will eventually make his way to Tyler for use in official B&C Arena of Death events at Games Days and the like. The pic is mostly to show the progress I've been making trying to work on an 'obsidian' recipe for my Dread's power claws:

Black undercoat, highlighted as per my RG recipe and then washed many, many times with Leviathan Purple wash and the occasional wash of Black Ink for shininess. I'll have to get some really glossy varnish from somewhere, probably an enamel, they tend to be shiniest, if this is to work on Pallas.

On the left side I've highlighted the edge white and then washed it a bunch of times with Leviathan Purple. On the right I've got just a straight white highlight, but I think the purple works better in conveying 'obsidian'. I think it needs more washes and the gloss finish but it seems to be heading in the right direction.

[Foehammer888]

While I see the "practicality" point on the sergeant back banners, my only arguing point is there isn't anything "practical" about a dreadnought. If the RG have committed a dreadnought to battle, its no longer a stealthy, covert operation. Its application of supreme force and terror at a given point.

 

What I always thought 40k rules never represented correctly was, for SM, a dreadnought is as much a psychological weapon as a physical one. For the enemy, its a 15+ ft tall walking steel juggernaught, something no mere mortal can stand against. For its allies, the dreadnought is one of the chapters greatest warriors and heroes walking to battle beside them. Adorned in centuries, if not millenia, of battle honors. It would be like going to battle beside joan of arc, william wallace, attila the hun, Julius Ceasar, or any number of other great historical warriors/leaders. That's why I agree with banners on dreadnoughts. They are there to be seen, be it to instill terror or to inspire.

 

That's why I don't think the use of more white than is typical, and also the use of more color than you've been using in other models, is inappropriate in this case.