Shadow Force Dragomir - A Raven Guard Army

[Vassakov]

OK, so I was thinking about my last post and what I could do to make my test-bed Rhino a bit fancier and I had a minor stroke of genius. I asked myself a simple question - What Would Brother Argos Do? - and the answer was plain to see - he'd add superdetail :)

 

This made me chuckle, I'll admit! :P

 

On the subject of the transfers, personally I don't think it looks unbalanced at all. I think the green would be a nice touch, but it would have to be a muted green which is what you have - I'd say go for it, it wouldn't be too hard to rectify if it doesn't work.

 

I'm having trouble visualising what you have in mind for the roof hatch though - it sounds interesting but I can't quite pull a mental image together for it. Perhaps try a mock up first to see what it looks like?

 

The eagle strips are a nice touch though - the only comment I have is that at the moment the strip looks too thick, and too much like runners on a car or something. Perhaps a thinner piece of plasticard?

[Brother Argos]

Vassakov is right ... its too thick at the moment.

 

I would go for something .5mm roughly ... spray it black and paint the eagle in white perhaps ? That keeps with the theme sufficiently

 

Also between the "blocks" rather than in front of them perhaps, I would need to see it in real life to help beyond this point.

[chaplain mortis]

nice to see the decals on the rhino!

 

adds that touch that makes the vehicle "pop" :P

 

the decal choices and placement look fine (and they are great decals)..maybe drop the tactical arrows to touch the bottom of the "depressions"?

 

and personally i think you should just keep to detailing the sides and fronts of the vehicles..

 

maybe just to keep your painting/modelling time down so you dont start falling back into the trap of spending to much time on each model :P

 

and less white on the model keeps them to the theme of "shadow force" ^_^

[SCC]

Quick update for the Rhino and my, new and much thinner, 'aquila bar' additions:

So you can see the intent here, I don't think the white detracts from the grimdark look of the vehicle but it does help break up the otherwise flat roof a little. I'll finish up the bar for the other side, blu-tac them in place and see what it looks like on the morrow I think...

@Chaplain Mortis: Yeah, the FW RG decals are just flat out excellent, I wouldn't have attempted the force without them and I can't imagine it working as well as it has without them either.

@Argos: Thanks for taking a look David, appreciate that eye of yours confirming Vassakov's suspicion.

@Vassakov: Thanks for the advice, the thinner strip is much more the go. I'm going to try green panels tomorrow, though I haven't decided if I'm going to try the front or side yet. I'll also try and finish up the other little details so I can 'sign off' on this guy, it's heading towards my 7.5 hour limit rapidly. Then I just need to sort out a storm bolter...

[Cyrox]

Looking good mate, nice subtle markings

 

Cool

[Vassakov]

:) Looking really good, the top panels look really nice now. Could just be the camera shot, by the way, but whats up with the top hatch? Looks very shiny from here.

 

Still, its a really nice model, and even if you don't like painting tanks so much you certainly have no problems with it.

[Tyrannicide]

The Rhino is coming together very nicely, SCC! I really like that Aquila strip that you've got there; it adds some flavor while not being detractive.

[Till]

Amazing looking. Some of my favorite black.

[Meatman]

@Meatman: You can always try calling FW, emails aren't much good but phone calls are supposed to get a good response. I'm debating whether I can be bothered over my cracked RG door or whether I'll warm it, warp it straight and putty it up...

 

 

After a little bit of filing gap filling it looked like it's supposed to. Resin is easy enough to file down. Didn't think to email/phone them, just went straight into fixing mode :tu:

 

 

That rhino looks really top notch. I'm really considering the decals but always struggle with them. I'll keep practising until I get it right.

 

Like the look of your army list for them too. Damn why do I have exams? I would love to keep working on my models to the level you do, but that silly thing called real life keeps calling :)

[SCC]

OK, so I'm looking to create a replacement for the ML I dropped from Brother Goran last week and this is my leading candidate, he's to join the second combat squad of Tactical Squad Rhuarc who are dashing for cover whilst Atanas and his team provide cover. And I've got two options to choose between here:

Running w/ bolt pistol out and scanning:

or

Running for cover/to reload:

I'm leaning towards the latter to tell the truth, I need to get the arm angles right so it looks like he's dashing more than jogging and maybe tilt the head down a bit more to give that impression too but I like the look of it better than the BP.

Of course having a running ML carrier instead of a static one does make the division of the squad into combat squads more difficult as he's now going to be squadded with the Sergeant and his PW. Or at least he will be thematically, there's nothing stopping me from having a mix of running and static Marines in a combat squad in game except for aesthetic neatness I guess. Still, aesthetics matter in an army...

@Vassakov: I've hand painted some varnish on the areas I handle most as I turn and hold the model for painting, that's what the shiny areas are. Just saves me from having to repaint those areas and the Dull Cote will kill the shine at the end. The decals are also varnished but that's the protect them from the spray component of the Dull Cote in their case.

@DP, Till: Thanks guys :woot:

@Meatman: Glad to hear it was repairable. The FW decals are really soft and easy to work with, I can't recommend them highly enough.

[kapturowski]

If you want to convey a sense of him sprinting you could trry to twist the torso a bit so he has his Missile Launcher sort of trailing behind him. I think it would make a more dynaimc mini.

[Brother Argos]

Yes the missile as the leading arm doesn't work for the running figure pose ... it should trail to make the posture more realistic. The other thing is the running pose has the marines left leg forward, to make that believable you need the right arm forward (not the missile one). You can see here that opposing limbs counterbalance while running. At the moment the figure looks "wrong" because you innately understand what a runner should look like and it fails that test.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/ih/running.jpg

 

If you go with the pistol pose you would do better with a "straight out" arm as though he is firing it also dont forget to add the holster for the bolt pistol to complete the look. Obviously this thrusting pistol pose would counterbalance the rear swing "weight" of the missile launcher and give a much more dynamic movement to the figure. Finally I would advice against the missile in the hand, it lacks believability somehow and leaves him "unready" for combat while moving.

 

Sorry to sound critical chris ... the idea is great and was one I had considered for my missile launcher marine also, but had bumped into the same moving vs static aesthetic problem as yourself.

[SCC]

OK, so the ML guy needs some work (and Argos and I are discussing some solutions already) but here's something that I think I can safely say doesn't need any more work before it hits the tabletop:

Tactical Squad Khalid & Dedicated Transport:

Looks pretty good all kitted up and raring to go, right?

And some more shots of the Rhino:

It's no means perfect but I learnt (or re-learnt) a lot and I think it'll suffice for the tabletop for now. I know it still needs a storm bolter but that will come when I dig up a spare.

[Brother Argos]

Lovely looking group pictures Chris :D

[Cyrox]

Thats one mighty fine looking tactical squad Chris - bravo

[Firepower]

I'm quite jealous of the rhino in particular. I can't ever get highlights on my BT tanks that thin and crispy. I also find myself wishing all those FW armor variants were available when I stockpiled for my Crusaders.

 

An excellent army you've got going.

[Vulkan454]

Great looking RG you have. Even though they each have their own individuality they still seem to fit as a squad.

Keep up the good work.

 

Vulkan

[SCC]

@Cyrox, Vulkan: Thanks guys

@Firepower: careful drybrushing and some very patient edge highlighting were the keys to the Rhino highlighting. I haven't got the drybrushing down just yet, there are still 'dusty' areas I'd like to eliminate but tidying up and re-highlighting can be frustrating, it's so easy to get a 'dusty' finish again and have to re-do it that eventually I just accepted that this tank was as good as it was going to get and moved on :D

OK, I think this pose is a little closer to what Argos & Kapturowski were talking about:

The BP arm, a metal one (from the MkI Veterans or possibly a DA sergeant, I can't remember) box slipped down on its tac, it should be pretty much parallel to the ground when finished. The ML arm I'm still not sure about, it seems too far back to me here but what do others think? I also switched torso simply so I could show off all that lovely detail rather than have it hidden behind arms & a bolter.

[Brother Argos]

The missile arm is attached too far back on the shoulder ... it should be forward another 3-4mm once thats done put on the shoulderpad ... and then look again .. When you place the shoulderpad on, it is important to fool the eye line and align it with the lower arm to make the arm look extended rather than kinked (you may need to shave some off the top of the arm to make that work right).

 

Hmm 2am in the morning ... time for bed :D

 

It should all work if you do that Chris.

[Vassakov]

Firstly: The Rhino and the squad look fantastic. Top notch work, and the mix of the armour styles, poses and equipment gives a real sense of battle hardened veterans who have seen centuries of war together. The Rhino is beautiful, the transfers break up the black without being overpowering and the strips work nicely.

 

On the missile launcher pose - I just tried to hold something heavy in that sort of pose. It wasn't comfy, and I suspect if I tried to run with it I'd dislocate my arm with the momentum changes. It works a bit better if it's perhaps at about 30o from the body, and the other suggestion I'd make is reposing the wrist so that the back of the missile launcher is behind the Marine. If you were running with something that heavy and that thin (relatively!), you'd shift it so the weight was as close to you as possible to make it easier to run and keep your balance.

 

The Bolt Pistol looks great though!

[Brother Argos]

Hmm don't forget we are dealing with effectively super-humans here ... that kind of weight with power assisted armour might be trivial?

[SCC]

Firstly: The Rhino and the squad look fantastic. Top notch work, and the mix of the armour styles, poses and equipment gives a real sense of battle hardened veterans who have seen centuries of war together. The Rhino is beautiful, the transfers break up the black without being overpowering and the strips work nicely.

Thanks Vassakov, I'm pretty happy with how it all turned out in the end.

On the ML pose, I'm still struggling to find one that I'm happy with. I've been trotting up and down the corridor (I tore a calf muscle a few weeks ago so a brisk walk is all I can manage) at home with a big bag of kitty litter in my left hand and the right out with an imaginary BP to see what it should look like. With that bulk hanging down and behind me I find that I lock my left shoulder and arm as much as possible when moving to concentrate on steadying my right arm to aim and I pivot at the hips and adjust the size of my paces to keep my balance rather than use my arms.

And no matter what I do the bag eventually picks up it's own rhythm, its own syncopation that doesn't sync up with the movement of my legs the same way the arms of a jogger do, especially with my right arm out with the 'BP'.

That said I'm not sure the ML is all that heavy anyway and whether it'd act in that manner in 'real life'. It's mostly hollow and as Argos says - he's a Marine in PA so the ML weight probably isn't a huge issue, he probably barely notices he's lugging it around and it's the size/awkwardness of it rather than the mass that's the issue.

And all any of this has done is confuse me more to be honest. I think I'm just having one of those days...or two, as yesterday wasn't much better. I've somehow over-thought the pose for this guy and now his Sergeant too. I spent three or fours hours moving arms a millimetre here or there or, in the case of the Sgt, trying more than a dozen different arm/weapon combos to get the pose right and just spinning my wheels in general.

That said I snapped some of the less obviously anatomically impossible poses to try and get some opinions. If things are still as clear as mud I'll move on to painting some plain old Marines and let things un-muddy themselves for a bit for these two guys. So, the pics below are ordered in 'speed' order, that is how fast the Marine here is moving in my mind, first up is a run, not a sprint but a good run. Second is a steady jog, maybe a fraction faster and third is a trot like I was doing at home.

The front on shots look much the same, I think the torso could come around to his left a little more but I think I've got the forward angle about right, this shot is from the third shot above, the arm is tucked in closer to the body and his movement should be more rigid - focussed on accuracy for the BP rather than speed right now:

For the Sarge my problem is actually the legs, they remind me of the Berserker legs that stick out at crazy angles, nowhere near that bad of course but the balance just doesn't seem right for them somehow, but I'm more comfortable with this guy than the ML Marine:

I'm going to go to bed and try not to dream about moving Marine arms in tiny increments now I think :devil:

[SCC]

Firstly: The Rhino and the squad look fantastic. Top notch work, and the mix of the armour styles, poses and equipment gives a real sense of battle hardened veterans who have seen centuries of war together. The Rhino is beautiful, the transfers break up the black without being overpowering and the strips work nicely.

Thanks Vassakov, I'm pretty happy with how it all turned out in the end.

On the ML pose, I'm still struggling to find one that I'm happy with. I've been trotting up and down the corridor (I tore a calf muscle a few weeks ago so a brisk walk is all I can manage) at home with a big bag of kitty litter in my left hand and the right out with an imaginary BP to see what it should look like. With that bulk hanging down and behind me I find that I lock my left shoulder and arm as much as possible when moving to concentrate on steadying my right arm to aim and I pivot at the hips and adjust the size of my paces to keep my balance rather than use my arms.

And no matter what I do the bag eventually picks up it's own rhythm, its own syncopation that doesn't sync up with the movement of my legs the same way the arms of a jogger do, especially with my right arm out with the 'BP'.

That said I'm not sure the ML is all that heavy anyway and whether it'd act in that manner in 'real life'. It's mostly hollow and as Argos says - he's a Marine in PA so the ML weight probably isn't a huge issue, he probably barely notices he's lugging it around and it's the size/awkwardness of it rather than the mass that's the issue.

And all any of this has done is confuse me more to be honest. I think I'm just having one of those days...or two, as yesterday wasn't much better. I've somehow over-thought the pose for this guy and now his Sergeant too. I spent three or fours hours moving arms a millimetre here or there or, in the case of the Sgt, trying more than a dozen different arm/weapon combos to get the pose right and just spinning my wheels in general.

That said I snapped some of the less obviously anatomically impossible poses to try and get some opinions. If things are still as clear as mud I'll move on to painting some plain old Marines and let things un-muddy themselves for a bit for these two guys. So, the pics below are ordered in 'speed' order, that is how fast the Marine here is moving in my mind, first up is a run, not a sprint but a good run. Second is a steady jog, maybe a fraction faster and third is a trot like I was doing at home.

The front on shots look much the same, I think the torso could come around to his left a little more but I think I've got the forward angle about right, this shot is from the third shot above, the arm is tucked in closer to the body and his movement should be more rigid - focussed on accuracy for the BP rather than speed right now:

I'm going to go to bed and try not to dream about moving Marine arms in tiny increments now I think :wacko:

[SCC]

Firstly: The Rhino and the squad look fantastic. Top notch work, and the mix of the armour styles, poses and equipment gives a real sense of battle hardened veterans who have seen centuries of war together. The Rhino is beautiful, the transfers break up the black without being overpowering and the strips work nicely.

Thanks Vassakov, I'm pretty happy with how it all turned out in the end.

On the ML pose, I'm still struggling to find one that I'm happy with. I've been trotting up and down the corridor (I tore a calf muscle a few weeks ago so a brisk walk is all I can manage) at home with a big bag of kitty litter in my left hand and the right out with an imaginary BP to see what it should look like. With that bulk hanging down and behind me I find that I lock my left shoulder and arm as much as possible when moving to concentrate on steadying my right arm to aim and I pivot at the hips and adjust the size of my paces to keep my balance rather than use my arms.

And no matter what I do the bag eventually picks up it's own rhythm, its own syncopation that doesn't sync up with the movement of my legs the same way the arms of a jogger do, especially with my right arm out with the 'BP'.

That said I'm not sure the ML is all that heavy anyway and whether it'd act in that manner in 'real life'. It's mostly hollow and as Argos says - he's a Marine in PA so the ML weight probably isn't a huge issue, he probably barely notices he's lugging it around and it's the size/awkwardness of it rather than the mass that's the issue.

And all any of this has done is confuse me more to be honest. I think I'm just having one of those days...or two, as yesterday wasn't much better. I've somehow over-thought the pose for this guy and now his Sergeant too. I spent three or fours hours moving arms a millimetre here or there or, in the case of the Sgt, trying more than a dozen different arm/weapon combos to get the pose right and just spinning my wheels in general.

That said I snapped some of the less obviously anatomically impossible poses to try and get some opinions. If things are still as clear as mud I'll move on to painting some plain old Marines and let things un-muddy themselves for a bit for these two guys. So, the pics below are ordered in 'speed' order, that is how fast the Marine here is moving in my mind, first up is a run, not a sprint but a good run. Second is a steady jog, maybe a fraction faster and third is a trot like I was doing at home.

The front on shots look much the same, I think the torso could come around to his left a little more but I think I've got the forward angle about right, this shot is from the third shot above, the arm is tucked in closer to the body and his movement should be more rigid - focussed on accuracy for the BP rather than speed right now:

For the Sarge my problem is that now I look at the picture I'm so turned around I'm not sure which hand should be leading anymore :wacko:

EDIT: Argos and I are now thinking that the problem really is with the ML arm left elbow, the bend is just throwing everything else out, so I'm going to have to straighten it out before the eye will accept the pose.

Edited January 24, 2011 by SCC

[chaplain mortis]

nice to see a pic of the finished tactical squad and rhino together, very very nice

 

all came together very well, glad to see you kept the rhino very understated ;) and the aquila strip is a nice touch, be good to see some of those forgeworld doors you have soon

 

once again, great looking stuff

 

on to the missile launcher marine, its good to see your going for something different with the pose of him, but dont linger to long on how correct the pose is, remembering your capturing a marine in a "snapshot" of time. i think you will end up doing your own head in trying to get it perfect

 

slap a shoulder pad on him and crack out some more of those ravenguard! and try and think of when that m.launcher is on the tabletop you wont be seeing the pose all that much :)