Black Templar WIP

[CKO]

I am making a Black Templar army and I would like to create a DIY chapter and write about it, but I have some initial questions.

 

Black Templars do not have any successor chapters, so how do I get around that?

What are the do's and dont's when it comes to Black Templar?

What characteristics do you think are a must have for a Black Templar successor chapter?

What excuse can I use for using the same insignias(models)?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Black Templars do not have any successor chapters, so how do I get around that?

 

You don't.

 

If you want a DIY chapter, the Black Templars are really a no-no. Any new offshoots of their chapter would simply be a new crusade and go off just like the rest of them.

 

If you want a DIY chapter, that's great. However, the BT are not a great choice. You could create a chapter that has a similar world-view and character to the Black Templars, which would be one hell of a lot easier than making more BT's. You can use Imperial Fists geneseed, just like the Templars. Look at the Iron Knights. Very knight-ey but not quite so bat-shiz-insane that the Templars are.

 

If there are any character traits you didn't want or wanted to adjust in the vanilla Templars it becomes much easier to do that with a DIY.

 

Also, if you want a DIY, why do you want a DIY which is basically the Templars? People usually do DIY's because they want something different, something that isn't so blatantly over the top as a GW chapter, of which all significantly and in many cases break the readers suspension of disbelief, which is a bad thing.

 

What you want out of this is really the main question I'm going for.

 

So, what do you want for this DIY?

[ChaplainMathreyn]

I'd also go to your local Library and bone up on Crusades, etc. Pilgramages of the faithful of the Christian church wuld be a good idea as well...

[CKO]

So, what do you want for this DIY?

 

I want to make a really good DIY chapter that is believable. I also want to be able to write a story about the chapter's founding father. I wanted the hero to be a Black Templar that was sent to train a new chapter made from Rogal Dorn's geneseed, but I dont know if I can create the scenario.

[Octavulg]

Black Templars do not have any successor chapters, so how do I get around that?

 

You basically can't. Sorry. You might be able to justify a crusade with slightly different heraldry, but even that seems like it's pushing it, IMO.

 

How much difference are you looking for, modelwise? If you still want them to look like Black Templars, just make up your own Crusade.

 

What are the do's and dont's when it comes to Black Templar?

 

Don't do them. From the Octaguide:

 

"Many DIYers like to have the Black Templars be their training cadre. However, there are a number of both in-universe and out-of-universe problems with this. Why would the High Lords choose the Black Templars? They're headstrong, violate the Codex, and are completely outside Imperial control, even moreso than the usual Astartes independence. The High Lords would not trust them. Nor would they be a good choice for a training cadre, precisely because of their particular quirks – they'd pass them on to the new Chapter, which would provide the High Lords with another problem chapter. Added to this, there's the fact that most people seem to simply take the opportunity to recreate the Black Templars, thus raising the issue of why the exercise was undertaken in the first place. The Black Templars as a Chapter cadre raise far, far more problems than they solve. "

 

What characteristics do you think are a must have for a Black Templar successor chapter?

 

Nonexistence.

 

That said, making a good successor Chapter usually involves taking an aspect you like about the Chapter and putting an interesting twist on it.

 

So I ask you: What do you like about the Black Templars and want to duplicate in a successor Chapter? And what makes this Chapter different from the Black Templars?

 

What excuse can I use for using the same insignias(models)?

 

You mean using the templar cross? That's easy. Similar heraldry is common as dirt.

 

I want to make a really good DIY chapter that is believable. I also want to be able to write a story about the chapter's founding father. I wanted the hero to be a Black Templar that was sent to train a new chapter made from Rogal Dorn's geneseed, but I dont know if I can create the scenario.

 

Why? Why not just have an Imperial Fist create a Chapter that ends up functioning a lot like the Black Templars (while still being unique and interesting in their own right). Hell, it's not like the Black Templars have that many unique formations - it'd be pretty easy to duplicate the functioning of their army even within a Codex Chapter. Have the Scouts fight with Tactical Squads to better learn. Boom, done. And less divergent than a lot of other Chapters, too.

 

Also, be careful - an IA is the story of a Chapter, not the story of the guy who founded it. He should play an important role, much like a story about your life should include your childhood. But it shouldn't be about him.

[CKO]

I will make an Imperial Fist successor chapter that have Black Templar characterstics.

[Octavulg]

I ask you again:

What do you like about the Black Templars and want to duplicate in a successor Chapter? And what makes this Chapter different from the Black Templars?

[CKO]

I like their unmatched passion and zeal, preference for close quarters combat, and ignoring the codex astartes. I am not sure how I am going to differentiate my DIY from the Black Templar, I am thinking making them more extreme on the non-humans and psykers, they will have a homeworld, and a strange religion with war as its center.

[Octavulg]

I like their unmatched passion and zeal,

 

Workable.

 

preference for close quarters combat,

 

Workable.

 

and ignoring the codex astartes.

 

Not workable. At least not with the IF. They're the second-most dedicated Codex Chapter. Or third. It depends on which bit of contradictory fluff you're following.

 

Look, the Codex Astartes is a massive guidebook to How to Fight With Space Marines. It's huge. It covers almost everything you could think of. It's the Art of War, On War, various army tactical manuals, a complete history of warfare, and analyses of a hundred thousand battles. And an organizational guide. And a medical manual. The thing is massive and comprehensive.

 

Why would you want to throw it all away?

 

I am thinking making them more extreme on the non-humans and psykers, they will have a homeworld, and a strange religion with war as its center.

 

The hating psykers bit actually doesn't make much sense for the BT. Think about it - Navigators are necessary to travel between worlds and Astropaths are necessary to send messages. The Imperium would literally collapse without psykers. Completely eschewing them is kind of...odd.

 

I am not sure how I am going to differentiate my DIY from the Black Templar,

 

Then why do it? Not to be crabby, but if you like the BT that much, play BT. There's nothing wrong with playing an official Chapter.

 

Seriously. If you don't know what you want to do differently, you need to ask yourself, well, why you're doing this.

[Leonaides]

to the above i'd also want to add- more xenophobic than the templars? You'll struggle there... But seriously, nothing you've written looks like you want anything other than templars anyway.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, in fairness, it's easier to come up with things that you like in a chapter than come up with things you don't like.

At least, that's the case for me.

 

It might be an idea to, instead of killing all the psykers, you could have a very limited number, and have them kept on a very tight leash.

Aside from the astropaths and whatnot, who you'd need anyway, I mean.

 

I'd also reccomend keeping the codex in - maybe even keeping the organisation. I mean, unless you're used to fielding truckloads of templars at once, it doesn't matter how big the companies are.

And it'd be nice to see someone making codex-adherent templar clones for a change. ;)

 

Incidentally, what colours were you thinking of using for this chapter? :)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Incidentally, what colours were you thinking of using for this chapter? :)

 

You're obsessed I swear! :lol:

[Nilsson]

If you really do like to go down this route, then I'd recomend to listen to Ace Debonair here, a Codex-Adherent version of the Templars would acually be a nice idea, might be the "same" but still not. Purtians (You) Redical (BT) could work out rather well.

 

Ofcourse there will and must be diffrences though the idea could work out if done well. I recomend you if you want this, keep working on it!

[CKO]

I'd also reccomend keeping the codex in - maybe even keeping the organisation. I mean, unless you're used to fielding truckloads of templars at once, it doesn't matter how big the companies are.

And it'd be nice to see someone making codex-adherent templar clones for a change. :lol:

 

I think I will try making a Chapter that uses the Codex Astartes but has a significant divergence that makes them Black Templar like. Are there any cliches I should try to avoid before I start writing the IA? Or any ideas of how I can avoid making Black Templar version 2.0?

[Ace Debonair]

I'll start you off with one way of making them different and answer GHY at the same time. :lol:

 

Incidentally, what colours were you thinking of using for this chapter? :P

 

You're obsessed I swear! :lol:

 

I meant, don't make them predominantly black, or there'll really be no point in having a DIY chapter. ;)

 

Since nobody else has recommended it to you yet, I definitely advise taking a looksie through the DIY guide at the top of the forum - it's a heck of a read, and should help you conjure up an idea or two. ;)