Reliance on overkill

[Brother Biskit]

Has anyone noticed that while other armies tend to focus their assault builds on leaving one or two opposing models intact on the first round of assault we almost depend on hitting everything with overkill thanks to our heavy reliance on expensive characters like Sang Priests and Librarians, both of which are low on wounds and struggle to get a decent invulnerable save in CC. How do you deal with the fact that you have to choose between a round of rapid fire or a dead Priest / Libby because of a left over fist?

 

Also how do you dish out the overkill without over-costing your units?

[biglou666]

I partially agree with what you say. techincally, our units are exactly the same as the vanilla marines, our assault, vanguard and tacticals etc all have the same stat lines, so how can we expect them to be better? as you say, our benefits almost always come from independent characters, which can sometimes be vulnerable. the solution is simple, dont rely on the ic's, treat them as a bonus. only use a ten man squad as you would use it on its own, even if they are riding with a librarian. dont send them into a monstrous creaure, hoping to kill it outright with a force weapon, or a preists powerfist. just use the squad what it was originally meant for, dont let a mediocre ic change the squads role.

 

personally, if you want a good ic with durability, i would reccomend a reclusiarch, beacause they genuienly increase a sqauds killing power, especially when hes riding with assault troops. his decent invun will keep him alive longer, than say, an epistolary, or even a termie priest. he is a bit more expensive, but those liturgies on their own are worth the points! :lol:

[Redfinger]

I think you bring up a valid point...The best aproach to use to answer your question is a balanced build, I rarely take named ic's, I find them to be a bit gimmiky...sure it is possible to build some rediculous killing combinations, but to what end? Having a uber unit that draws all off the fire of your opponent? Instead I think building in duality and balance will yeild the best results with any list. We do have untis that do have decent survivability. VV's w/ SS's is a hard shell to crack. Combat squading is another way to increase unit survivability, using a some combat squads as a bubble wrap and jumping into the fray w/ your marines is always fun. FNP alows you to live llonger in the assault. Being in assault with your opponent is a good thing for BA, it means your not getting shot at or templated, and if you have matched unis up correctly, you should be fine.

 

Ashton

[Red Fury]

How do you deal with the fact that you have to choose between a round of rapid fire or a dead Priest / Libby because of a left over fist?

It really isn't very hard to keep an IC (libby/priest/chappy) out of BtB with a fist (on the charge that is). So if you wipe the squad out down to the fist, he has to attack what he is in btb with, ie. the squad not your IC.

 

In the case of charging and totally wiping out the unit and being rapid fired, well it happens. But rapid fire vs power armor isn't such a bad bet. Really, you need to take some action if you are charging a squad you think you will wipe out. Either multi-charge or target saturation or the bigger impending threat are all ways of keeping a squad from being shot up by an entire army.

 

Also how do you dish out the overkill without over-costing your units?

I don't run one big hammer unit that costs half of my points. Instead I run several smaller hard hitting units that are supported be a couple RAS squads. Specifically, I run a small DC plus a chappy, a DC dread, a Libby plus a honor guard that is followed closely by a 10 man ras, and another 10 man ras to go wherever is needed. The DC and HG squads are about 300-350 points each, so not too bad. Actually, just add a few Baal preds and that is pretty much my go to army list right there.

 

-Fury

[Arkio]

against MEQ i like a 3-5 man JP dc w/ lemaryes and all power weapons no fists. against GEQ i drop the power weapons adn just roll w/ chainswords. they are a small enough unit that i can screen with vehicles easialy and use the rage rule to my advantage. but blocking LOS to targets that i'd rather not my dc attack.

[River Black]

against MEQ i like a 3-5 man JP dc w/ lemaryes and all power weapons no fists. against GEQ i drop the power weapons adn just roll w/ chainswords. they are a small enough unit that i can screen with vehicles easialy and use the rage rule to my advantage. but blocking LOS to targets that i'd rather not my dc attack.

 

I wish I could tailor my lists to fight against a specific opponent before a game.

[Dingareth]

I wish I could tailor my lists to fight against a specific opponent before a game.

 

No you don't. It doesn't help you learn to be a better player at all.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I think whenever you take Death Co. with jump packs, you're making a bad decision.

 

I don't have a problem with receiving rapid fire after wiping out a unit. What I *do* have a problem with is getting nailed by a s8 ap3 (or higher) pie plate after doing the aforementioned wiping out. It sucks, and you need to keep an eye on it... pick and choose targets.

 

It seems like Blood Angels have a higher number of full-on wipeouts, but we don't have a tremendously stronger assault force than C:SM. Furious Charge is a factor, but it's more up to the player than the army (and of course the dice get a say).

[Arkio]

against MEQ i like a 3-5 man JP dc w/ lemaryes and all power weapons no fists. against GEQ i drop the power weapons adn just roll w/ chainswords. they are a small enough unit that i can screen with vehicles easialy and use the rage rule to my advantage. but blocking LOS to targets that i'd rather not my dc attack.

 

I wish I could tailor my lists to fight against a specific opponent before a game.

 

 

i dont see how that makesme tailor my lists. i have friends that normally play GEQ and MEQ and i make an educated choice based on the armies that individual plays. but thanks for the flame.

[Zeller]

Our army needs to obliterate any squad it touches in one turn so it can consolidate away from enemy units waiting to charge it next turn. At least, that's my experience from the Orks. When my forces get tied down without the ability to either leave with a USR or slaughter their enemy wholesale then we simply wither over the turns. Of course, I've had plenty of games where over the course of a few turns my marines destroy the squad but it is as such a great cost numerically that with each assault my squads are less and less capable of handling the enemy.

 

Against my friend's wolves I'm okay sending in a single unit to kill a single unit. It works with the FC.

 

I think it just comes down to that even with the priests, our relatively lower numbers and the requirement of a very specific application of our forces necessitates that we must be able to garuntee that a unit will die if we attack it. Especially in assault. Strike hard or not at all; of all the power armor armies we absolutely cannot afford to suffer from attrition.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

against MEQ i like a 3-5 man JP dc w/ lemaryes and all power weapons no fists. against GEQ i drop the power weapons adn just roll w/ chainswords. they are a small enough unit that i can screen with vehicles easialy and use the rage rule to my advantage. but blocking LOS to targets that i'd rather not my dc attack.

 

I wish I could tailor my lists to fight against a specific opponent before a game.

 

 

i dont see how that makesme tailor my lists. i have friends that normally play GEQ and MEQ and i make an educated choice based on the armies that individual plays. but thanks for the flame.

 

What he means to say, in a rather flamey way, is that in many situations you can't just say: I now play with 60 more points to get powerweapons, and now I play with 60 less on this squad because against this enemy I don't need them.

 

It indeed makes you a better player if you build a list not tailor made to fight a specific enemy, but give that squad.. say.. 2 power weapons so they are not overcost when fighting Guard and still slaughter a MEQ 10 man squad on the charge together with Lemmy.

 

It's like the choice between Flamer and Meltagun: 1 is better against MECH, the other against Hordes. You have a chance to fight both, so you take a balance of flamers and meltaguns. In many games, especially in tournaments but also if you play in a large gaming group and you are never 100% sure what you fight when you head off to your FLGS, you can't tailor your army to the enemy you know you will be facing. You need to be prepared for both.

 

It might be worth a shot to try and improve your game by making those tough decisions of making an army and each squad multi-purpose and not focused on what you know you will face that day.

 

Sorry for going off-topic there..