Blood Wolves

[Wolfy1322]

Blood Wolves

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5896/bloodwolves.png

The Blood Wolves are a young and largely unknown chapter. Little remains of they're founding, despite being the most recent. No records of they're progenator chapter, or geneseed exists, and even the original members of the chapter, only 2 of which have survived can't remember where they are from. Regardless they fight with the same ferocity and bloodlust as the Space Wolves, and have come to call them brothers in arms.

Origins: Created as part of the 26th founding. Geneseed record has been lost, as has chapter progeny. Has been presumed that they are of Russ' Geneseed.

History: Wolf and Paws became stranded after an apparent battle, only to somehow find themselves on fenris. With no memory of how they got there. During a battle with a traitor chapter Wolf was killed. He returned later to continue leading the chapter as a dreadnaught. During a battle with chaos forces and traitor guard Paws was mortally wounded. His body could not be found after the battle and he is now presumed MIA.

Home World: None. Battle barge generally remains in Fenris territory. Training is done on Fenris itself. Recruitment is from an agri-planet nearby. The reason for recruiting from the agri planet is for the intelligence the populace posses. Constantly adapting, and able to anticipate coming danger, before it arrives. This has enabled the Blood wolves to adopt they're current combat doctrine, which is a modified form of the Space Wolves.

Beliefs: Same as Space wolf.

Gene-seed: Unknown, records have been lost. Some have speculated that they have the Geneseed of Russ.

Combat Doctrine: Suppression and Close combat style fighting. Typically 1 squad suppresses the enemy, while another engages closecombat while they are pinned down. They prefer to fight in urban environments, as it allows for them to gain the advantage more easily. Due to they'rer preference for close combat. The reason for this method of fighting is twofold, the first is that it allows them to control the enemy. the second and most important, is because they have an innate lust for close combat, only those with a great willpower are chosen as devestator marines. The rerst try to avoid contact with the enemy until they are litterally on top of them, at that point, they're blood boils, and they lash out with extreme prejudice. Due to being stationed predominantly around Fenris, the Blood Wolves typically encounter traitor guard and Chaos.

Organization: Smaller squads than normal, 3-7 in a squad.. This is due to being able to get around an urban landscape easier with fewer people. The exception to this squad size is the devestators, which only have 3 in a squad, 2 heavy weapons, and a sergant. this is due to the willpower required to avoid running head first into a fight. Very few seem able to do this.

Battle-cry: Genereally the Blood Wolves recite a personal oath to Russ and the Emperor before battle. During battle, they simply remain silent, or roar with such ferocity that enemies arn't sure what's actually happening until it's too late.

Special Rules: Squad sizes are limited. Headstrong (As described in Space Wolves 5th) This applies to all units. Counter attack.

[Myxx]

Paint scheme almost seems Flesh Tearers or some other BA successor, rather than a SW-esque army. Sounds interesting. I'll be following this to see what the other brothers (particularly the SW's) think. I know it's considered taboo to use (even by implication) Russ' gene-seed as a basis for new foundings, it usually doesn't turn out well.

[Nilsson]

Tone down their connection to Space Wolves and you might pull this off, remove the Special Rules i'd say. It's an IA. Evaluate belifs, don't just write "Same as Space Wolves", don't do your trainning on Fenris etc.

 

If you want a SW-diffrent colours chapter why not do a lost company? Several occations when they leave the fang when they don't like the new Chapter Master.

[Shinzaren]

The Blood Wolves are a young and largely unknown chapter. Little remains of they're founding, despite being the most recent. No records of they're progenator chapter, or geneseed exists, and even the original members of the chapter, only 2 of which have survived can't remember where they are from. Regardless they fight with the same ferocity and bloodlust as the Space Wolves, and have come to call them brothers in arms.

Ok, but why do the Wolves call you brothers? It's an established fact that the Space Wolves have no successors, and worming around it with amnesia, and unknown gene-seed doesn't make it any better.

 

Origins: Created as part of the 26th founding. Geneseed record has been lost, as has chapter progeny. Has been presumed that they are of Russ' Geneseed.

Why is this assumed? As stated, Russ has no successors. It is much more likely that they are assumed to be Ultramarines stock, as that is what the majority of new chapters use. You can't say your Space Wolves gene-seed just because you fight like them, and you want to be.

 

History: Wolf and Paws became stranded after an apparent battle, only to somehow find themselves on fenris. With no memory of how they got there. During a battle with a traitor chapter Wolf was killed. He returned later to continue leading the chapter as a dreadnaught. During a battle with chaos forces and traitor guard Paws was mortally wounded. His body could not be found after the battle and he is now presumed MIA.

Are Wolf and Paws people? How did they end up on Fenris? Why didn't the Space Wolves kill them? Dreadnoughts aren't marines that are reincarnated, they are the former bodies of marines that suffered extensive injuries, and would die, if not for internment in the dreadnought shell. Dreadnoughts don't lead chapters. If he was mortally wounded while fighting traitors, why is he considered MIA and not KIA?

 

Home World: None. Battle barge generally remains in Fenris territory. Training is done on Fenris itself. Recruitment is from an agri-planet nearby. The reason for recruiting from the agri planet is for the intelligence the populace posses. Constantly adapting, and able to anticipate coming danger, before it arrives. This has enabled the Blood wolves to adopt they're current combat doctrine, which is a modified form of the Space Wolves.

The Space Wolves don't like people looking over their shoulder. They wouldn't let you train on Fenris, and even if they did, it would probably be documented in their Codex. Agri-planet in the Fenris system would be under Space Wolf control, and it would be very unlikely that they would let another Astartes Chapter recruit from there. They have the Spider Sense? Able to anticipate incoming danger? Agri-worlds generally aren't that dangerous.

 

Beliefs: Same as Space wolf.

Then what purpose does this IA serve? Do you want to be unique and cool, and kinda like the Wolves? Or do you want to be the Space Wolves? It seems to me that you just want to be the Space Wolves.

 

Gene-seed: Unknown, records have been lost. Some have speculated that they have the Geneseed of Russ.

Who suggested this? The Wolves have no known successors.

 

They prefer to fight in urban environments, as it allows for them to gain the advantage more easily. Due to they'rer preference for close combat.

This doesn't make sense. Space Marines are required to fight on planets and environments all over the galaxy. From the ash wastes of Armageddon, to Space Hulks, to Hive Worlds. Handicapping your guys by making them urban combat specialists is silly, especially if you are going to continue to have them train in the Frozen Wastes of Fenris, which I recommend against.

 

The reason for this method of fighting is twofold, the first is that it allows them to control the enemy. the second and most important, is because they have an innate lust for close combat, only those with a great willpower are chosen as devestator marines.

This just seems to be a direct copy of the Blood Angels Flaw. No self-control, have to be in CC at all times.

 

The rerst try to avoid contact with the enemy until they are litterally on top of them, at that point, they're blood boils, and they lash out with extreme prejudice. Due to being stationed predominantly around Fenris, the Blood Wolves typically encounter traitor guard and Chaos

.

Why are they stationed around Fenris? That world is already claimed by the Wolves. Your chapter would most likely not be welcome there, and would definitely not be allowed to have a Battle Barge just hanging out there.

 

Organization: Smaller squads than normal, 3-7 in a squad.. This is due to being able to get around an urban landscape easier with fewer people. The exception to this squad size is the devestators, which only have 3 in a squad, 2 heavy weapons, and a sergant. this is due to the willpower required to avoid running head first into a fight. Very few seem able to do this.

Again, Urban Warfare is a silly thing to specialize in, especially for "Space Wolves". Come up with a better reason for smaller squads.

 

Battle-cry: Genereally the Blood Wolves recite a personal oath to Russ and the Emperor before battle. During battle, they simply remain silent, or roar with such ferocity that enemies arn't sure what's actually happening until it's too late.

Why are they swearing Oaths to a Primarch not their own? If their own Primarch is a mystery, why are they calling on Russ to witness their deeds and judge the dead? This seems to be a direct copy of the Space Wolves.

 

Sorry if this seemed harsh, or to critical. It just seems to me that you want to play different color Space Wolves. There is literally not one unique idea in this whole thing, aside from the Color Scheme. Again, that probably seems harsh, sorry. I just feel like you need to distance yourself from the Space Wolves, and make your own chapter, with your own world, and your own ideas. Don't use Fenris, don't be Space Wolf successors, and please don't try and say that you are best buddies with the Wolves and recruit from inside their domain.

 

These are two invaluable resources for making an IA:

Guide to DIYing.

The Octaguide: Octavulg's Guide to Creating an excellent DIY chapter that will make even beautiful women go, "Hey, that's pretty cool!"

[Wolfy1322]

Myxx you are sooo close you wouldn't believe.

 

They don't have SW geneseed. I do actually have the geneseed they use marked out, and the why as well. But the general effect that I was going for, is that they fight with the wolves, train with the wolves, and even resemble them at times as well. Everyone thinks that they are wolves. But they're not wolves. (Storywise)

 

I don't really want to make a "lost company" mostly because it's already been done, and there's no reason to do it again. The only reason I have them training on Fenris is because I do want them to be around that area, but I have no idea if I can just pluck a planet from my *ahem* and say it's next door to Fenris. I know Fenris is the planet, but it could also be the name for the system as well.

 

As far as the beliefs go, I know I need to work on that, I'm just not sure what to include there. Besides the obvious "The Emperor will return, and smite all that is against the imperium, along with some stuff that isn't"

 

I'm unsure whether or not to put in which geneseed and why though. As it is a large part of the story behind them, and "hopefully" what'll actually capture someones interest.

[Wolfy1322]

Ok, but why do the Wolves call you brothers? It's an established fact that the Space Wolves have no successors, and worming around it with amnesia, and unknown gene-seed doesn't make it any better.

 

They call them brothers after having proven they're worth. From surviving the battles they have shared and from being like minded. I'm by no means claiming that they have saved Fenris from a chaos assault or anything remotely close to it, simply that they have aided them in battle, and stood side by side.

 

Why is this assumed? As stated, Russ has no successors. It is much more likely that they are assumed to be Ultramarines stock, as that is what the majority of new chapters use. You can't say your Space Wolves gene-seed just because you fight like them, and you want to be.

 

Never said they had space wolf geneseed. The reason people assume they are wolves is because of the iconography, and they're mannerisms. There's no record to state which chapter they are succesor to. Fangs and a lust for battle are very space wolf esque. Put 2 and 2 together and most people would think they are wolves.

 

Are Wolf and Paws people? How did they end up on Fenris? Why didn't the Space Wolves kill them? Dreadnoughts aren't marines that are reincarnated, they are the former bodies of marines that suffered extensive injuries, and would die, if not for internment in the dreadnought shell. Dreadnoughts don't lead chapters. If he was mortally wounded while fighting traitors, why is he considered MIA and not KIA?

 

How they ended up on Fenris is again backstory as to why they don't know they're geneseed etc... Why would the wolves kill them? They are a legit chapter (Albeit severly weakend at that point) Only where they came from is unknown, not the chapter itself. My apologies, as I had read and understood it, Dreadnaughts where housing fallen soldiers, by that I took it to mean dead. Dreadnaughts haven't led chapters before, granted, but why can't they lead them? A good point, I'll change that.

 

The Space Wolves don't like people looking over their shoulder. They wouldn't let you train on Fenris, and even if they did, it would probably be documented in their Codex. Agri-planet in the Fenris system would be under Space Wolf control, and it would be very unlikely that they would let another Astartes Chapter recruit from there. They have the Spider Sense? Able to anticipate incoming danger? Agri-worlds generally aren't that dangerous.

 

No, not spider sense, and even agri-worlds have harsh weather. By danger, I mean storms, tornados etc... They have adapted to deal with those kinds of dangers, and thrive inspite of it. As I have said, I wasn't sure exactly how the planet stuff would be taken.

 

Then what purpose does this IA serve? Do you want to be unique and cool, and kinda like the Wolves? Or do you want to be the Space Wolves? It seems to me that you just want to be the Space Wolves.

 

As stated earlier, I am aware that this section needs worked on.

 

Who suggested this? The Wolves have no known successors.

 

See above

 

This doesn't make sense. Space Marines are required to fight on planets and environments all over the galaxy. From the ash wastes of Armageddon, to Space Hulks, to Hive Worlds. Handicapping your guys by making them urban combat specialists is silly, especially if you are going to continue to have them train in the Frozen Wastes of Fenris, which I recommend against.

 

Is it silly for Blood angels to be close combat specialists, or white scars to be fast attack specialists, or the iron hand to be pretty much heavy support specialists? Admittedly training on Fenris is not the best of ideas for that type of training. Something I'll need to think on to rectify.

 

This just seems to be a direct copy of the Blood Angels Flaw. No self-control, have to be in CC at all times.

 

Your right, and there is a reason for it.

 

Why are they stationed around Fenris? That world is already claimed by the Wolves. Your chapter would most likely not be welcome there, and would definitely not be allowed to have a Battle Barge just hanging out there.

 

Granted, this goes hand in hand with earlier issues you've brought up.

 

Again, Urban Warfare is a silly thing to specialize in, especially for "Space Wolves". Come up with a better reason for smaller squads.

 

You really dislike urban warfare don't you? Given how I play my army resembles this type of fighting, I'm not likely to change on the urban warfare part.

 

Why are they swearing Oaths to a Primarch not their own? If their own Primarch is a mystery, why are they calling on Russ to witness their deeds and judge the dead? This seems to be a direct copy of the Space Wolves.

 

They recite an oath to Russ as they consider the wolves the reason for thier current strength. They have a great respect for them, and wish to honour that respect. Given some of the issues that you've mentioned, this will have to be dealt with also.

 

Sorry if this seemed harsh, or to critical. It just seems to me that you want to play different color Space Wolves. There is literally not one unique idea in this whole thing, aside from the Color Scheme. Again, that probably seems harsh, sorry. I just feel like you need to distance yourself from the Space Wolves, and make your own chapter, with your own world, and your own ideas. Don't use Fenris, don't be Space Wolf successors, and please don't try and say that you are best buddies with the Wolves and recruit from inside their domain.

 

Not at all, it's the reason I posted this. I don't mind critiscim when it's constructive.

[Shinzaren]

I don't hate Urban Warfare. That is not what I meant. I am just trying to point out that urban warfare is a small part of what Space Marines do. The examples you listed as a rebuttal, Iron Hands, Blood Angels, and White Scars are not a type of warfare, but a style.

 

For example. You can use CC, Fast Attack, and Heavy Firepower in almost every different type of warfare, be it a frozen plain, a hive world, a desert, or even in space. This is the difference between types of warfare, which I view as the environment being fought in, and styles of warfare, which is how the opposing forces fight.

 

That was what I meant by that. In addition, you seem to have D.A.T. Syndrome.Don't worry, it's not contagious, and it's not all that bad. DAT Syndrome is the writing style of giving very vague clues, and ideas, and defending them by saying you haven't explained it yet, or it will be explained in the future, or the idea in your head makes sense. It is so named because Dark Apostle Thirst, who is easily one of the most creative people on this forum, has a habit of doing this same thing. Ideas in your head don't translate easily to other people unless you are clear and concise about them. The way this reads to me is that you are just hanging out on Fenris, being of Space Wolf gene-seed, and rocking out as Sons of Russ. You might not mean it that way, but that is how I read it.

[Ace Debonair]

As far as the Fenris thing - it'd be easy to make another, similar world, nowhere near the space wolves. And it'd cut down on the amount of hassle you'll get for shoehorning your lads into the space occupied by an official chapter.

 

I mean, you don't need to train with the wolves to be like the wolves, right?

And those who suspect a Russ successor can always point to the similarity as (somewhat flimsy) evidence.

 

And yes, spill the beans on whose geneseed it is.

It won't so much interest people as make them go 'not another space wolf successor!' :P And the full story is always more interesting than snippets. :D

 

EDIT: Shinzaren beat me to it - but I'll still recommend the DIY guide, which is at the top of this forum, for a great and enlightening read!

[Myxx]

So they come from Sanguinius' gene-seed, and somehow crash landed on Fenris and lost there memories and were raised by Space Wolves? Makes for a good story. Explains the CC and the 'bloodlust' aspects.

 

Instead of the prayer and oath to Russ, perhaps some kind of prayer to their forgotten/unknown/lost primarch and that glory in battle will draw his atttention and he will reveal himself kind of thing.

 

And I kinda like the urban combat idea, particularly if they have somekind of "partnership" with the wolves. Sort of filling an urban combat niche that the wolves aren't particularly known for.

[Ecritter]

THEY might have crash landed and forgot who they were by the IMPERIUM does not forget. They have records!

[Wolfy1322]

This is just a quick addendum to the first post, just to fill in some of the backstory. Hopefully fill in some blanks, and make some things make more sense. I will change the initial post at a later date after thinking through the advice so far, and coming up with alternatives, but this is just to add to what's already running on in my mind. Apprieciate the responses so far, thanks alot guys.

 

 

 

Geneseed: Sanginus

Successor chapter of: Blood Angels

 

The High Lords have been wanting to remove the taint and mutations of various geneseed over the millenia, with vary degrees of success and failure, though never truly solving the issue. Recently they have turned they're attention once more to the Blood Angel geneseed. As has been commonplace, all chapters are aware of who they are the successor to, and as Blood Angels suffer from the red thirst and black rage, this trickles down into any chapter spawned from Sanguinus' geneseed. The thought occured to create a chapter from the Blood Angels, and study how they work, without knowing whose geneseed they had. This was a study sanctioned to see if the black rage, or the red thirst truly were problems of the geneseed, or if they were simply all in the mind. Records of the geneseed and any reference to the Blood Angels were removed deliberately from prying eyes.

[Ecritter]

Well that works better, use one geneseed but tell the chapter its another. See what the results are ... interesting (read as good and original) idea.

 

The only problem with saying no one knows is that there are tests to determine the source, but tell them its someone elses ... they'd never ask.

[Myxx]

I like it. Take the perfect human killing machine and use them for a psycological experiment. I think it has some very interesting fluff potential, as well as some gaming ideas. Although I am not certain that taking a group of marines descended from a gene-seed with a history of accidental mental breakdown, and putting them with a group of marines witha a history of intentional mental breakdown. (Read: Red Thirst and Black Rage vs. well, wolfiness)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

In addition, you seem to have D.A.T. Syndrome.Don't worry, it's not contagious, and it's not all that bad.

 

Shinzaren, you've made my night! :D

 

For example. You can use CC, Fast Attack, and Heavy Firepower in almost every different type of warfare, be it a frozen plain, a hive world, a desert, or even in space. This is the difference between types of warfare, which I view as the environment being fought in, and styles of warfare, which is how the opposing forces fight.

Go read Sun Tsu's the Art of War. Then get back to me.

 

 

In the end, Shinzaren is right. Urban warfare is only one part of what the Astartes do, since they wage war in all environments and circumstances imaginable. To focus on one thing or another is fine, so long as it's not unreasonable. Urban Warfare isn't one of these things.

 

Guerilla Warfare is (Raven Guard), Armoured Warfare is (Aurora Chapter), Combined Arms is (All Codex Chapters).

 

You have some chapters that vary the degrees to which they focus on certain types of warfare. Close Quarter Combat type focus have two halves to my mind, the Salamanders style close range firefight 'set them on fire' focus or the Space Wolves 'rush in and shoot them and punch them in the face simultaneously' method.

 

Mind you all space marines are very CQC focussed, but I digress, that's not the point.

 

I feel a bit silly for going on a rant (and probably making myself look a bit ridiculous for throwing around technical terms for things that I don't know intimately) but hopefully you can see what I was trying to get across.

[Wolfy1322]

Taken from Wikipedia

Although there is considerable overlap, CQC is not synonymous with urban warfare, now sometimes known by the military acronyms MOUT (military operations on urban terrain), FIBUA (fighting in built-up areas) or OBUA (Operations in Built Up Areas) in the West. Urban warfare is a much larger field, including logistics and the role of crew-served weapons like heavy machine guns, mortars, and mounted grenade launchers, as well as artillery, armor, and air support. In CQC, the emphasis is on small infantry units using light, compact weapons that one man can carry and use easily in tight spaces, such as carbines, submachine guns, shotguns, pistols, and knives. As such, CQC is a tactical concept that forms a part of the strategic concept of urban warfare, but not every instance of CQC is necessarily enveloped by urban warfare—for example, jungle and guerrilla warfare are potential stages for CQC.

 

From what I can gather, and please correct me if I'm wrong, essentially, your expecting a defenition of how the troops fight, as opposed to how the army fights. CQC or even Close combat (read melee) are included as part of how individual units fight. Not how the army fights as a whole. Where as Urban combat defines how the army fights. I'm not sure I see a reason for focusing all the units to fight in one way, when it would be an extremely silly thing to do in various environments. Urban combat works in a multitude of environments for various reasons. Specifically hive worlds, cities, hulks, any building. If there was no space marine chapter who could specialise in such environments, then alot more property/information could be lost when attempting to defend or retake such a place. Urban warfare dictates what should be used in a built up area, it could also be used for caves/tunnels I'd be surprised if the White Scars were going to be as effective in a hulk as they are in the open feilds, very few bikes are gonna make it round those corners.

 

I'm not trying to dismiss your thoughts out of hand, I'm just not seeing this issue. It seems like it's being critiscised for not being the same as everything else. All space marines are trained in the same things, as we all know. Some take a preference to certain things, White Scars love their bikes, Blood Angels love melee and jump packs, Ultramarines love having a stick shoved up them. I'm unsure why a chapter can't have a preference/specialisation for fighting in urban environments. Hell Salamanders probably wouldn't be all that great fighting in a large forest, or in a munitions factory, or anywhere else where things have a chance of igniting and causing unintended harm. (Admittedly the forest catching fire likely wouldn't bother them as much.) As much as Marines are warriors first, they are also protectors, and simply laying waste to everything, just because you can is a waste of resources, and has branded at least a legion as traiors.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Go read Sun Tsu's the Art of War. Then get back to me.

 

Seconded.

 

If you specialize in fighting in built up areas (Urban Warfare) then you are having an environmental specialization that is not the majority of environments you will be called upon to fight in. The majority of Imperial worlds are not Hive Worlds. If they were the entire empire would collapse due to unfeasible supply and demand issues.

 

The reason chapters can focus on much more tightly defined types of warfare due to in part, a chapter itself being incredibly small and specialized. Remember, these are the ultimate special forces of an empire with unimaginable military resources at it's disposal.

 

From what I can gather, and please correct me if I'm wrong, essentially, your expecting a defenition of how the troops fight, as opposed to how the army fights.CQC or even Close combat (read melee) are included as part of how individual units fight. Not how the army fights as a whole. Where as Urban combat defines how the army fights.

 

Because essentially your troops are your army. There are only 1000 of these marines in one chapter. They can afford to be specialized. Urban combat doesn't dictate how the army fights, it dictates where they are fighting. A chapter that prefers melee combat will deploy lots of assault squads and fast-movers into the city, but they will adapt their particular battle-doctrine for their environment.

 

They deploy in very low numbers into whatever place they are required to fight. The largest amount of marines you will find, generally, in a fight will be an entire company, and that's a huge deployment. That comes to only around 100-120 marines in total. That's less than half of the smallest US Ranger battalion and significantly less than are deployed in a single regional command in Afghanistan or Iraq and their theatres of war often consist of entire sectors of space, let alone single worlds.

 

lets take an example here. Lets say a single company is deployed to a warzone. A typical operation will be between say ten and thirty marines tops, given that the company has more than one operation in progress at any one time. These marines will fight in small numbers using the tactics and weaponry that they have trained in the most and feel the most confidant with.

 

A force such as the Salamanders, if deployed into a more open warzone will adapt their strategy to their environment and how to maximize their effectiveness in their chosen method of warfare.

 

I'm not arguing against strategic or tactical specialization, I'm arguing against environmental specialization.

 

Specializing in a certain method of how your troops fight is easier to get away with than specializing the environment since the tactics can be adapted to your environment. In the end I think it's just a different way of expressing how the chapter fights.

 

This is what it comes down to.

 

An Index Astartes is an article about your chapter. An IA hinges upon the character of the chapter and how it is expressed in the article, which come across through aesthetics and the way they prosecute their campaigns.

 

The methods used by their troops are an expression of the character of the chapter, rather than having them adapt to whatever environment they find themselves in.

 

The former is interesting as character is everything for a DIY chapter. The latter is less interesting. Unless you have that their fighting within a certain environment is a key part of how the chapter evolves to be the way it is now, it is terribly uninteresting.

 

 

As much as Marines are warriors first, they are also protectors, and simply laying waste to everything, just because you can is a waste of resources, and has branded at least a legion as traiors.

 

I'm sorry but that's a bit rubbish. Them being protectors is your interpretation of their role. They defend the Imperium, yes that's true, but if you're talking about the actual people of the Imperium then the majority of the time they aren't. Laying waste to everything, maybe, but I never said they did and I'm not sure where you got that from.

 

Also look in your 3rd Ed Space Marine codex and there will be a small colour piece based on an Inquisitors testimony of the unleashing of a Space Marine chapter upon a rebellious world. He likens the result to being "second only to exterminatus", to paraphrase.

 

The Salamanders and to a lesser degree the Space Wolves are two of the only chapters on record that appear to care at all about the citizenry of the Imperium and so far as I know are an extreme minority.

 

Also keep in mind that this is 40k, not the modern military.

[CKO]

Wolfy I think you just need to settle down and figure out what you want from your chapter. Once you know what you want ask the community what they think so they can help you before you write an entire IA. If you decided to just start writing you will find yourself constantly justifying/explaining why something is the way it is, which makes the process alot harder. The goal of IA is to try to get the reader to understand why your chapter is the way it is and for them to believe it.

[Shinzaren]

I second everything GHY has brought up, and I say it with an additional warning. You are displaying classic symptoms of D.A.T. Syndrome again. You are latching on to an idea, once which multiple people are warning against. Not saying is impossible, but warning that it will cause issues, and you are defending it to death. It is your IA, and we are just trying to point out issues that sprang out at us as readers. But like Grey pointed out. There is a difference between tactics and environments.

 

That said, I also second CKO. What is the goal of this chapter? Psyche experiment? Angel Wolves? You're not displaying a whole lot of ingenuity yet. Now, perhaps that is the DAT Syndrome at work and you have tons of crazy ideas that haven't been externalized or explained yet, which is fine. On the other hand, as a reader, we're left wondering what exactly is going on, and how this story is both unique and engaging. Right now I am pulled out of the suspension of disbelief by some of th ideas here.

 

I think instead of latching on to Urban Combat and clinging to that idea for dear life, you give a slightly more concise idea of what your goals for the chapter are. Maybe try answering these questions:

 

1.) What is the theme of this chapter? The central idea that they are built around?

2.) Where is this chapter? Do they have a unique planet or system that they care about and defend or sally forth from?

3.) Who does this chapter primarily fight? Their central antagonist can be a big driving force in the development of a chapter.

4.) How do they see the Emperor, the Imperium, and the common man of the galaxy?

5.) What gets them out of bed in the morning? What is their motivation? Do they want to protect the galaxy? Destroy Man's enemies? Make a name for themselves?

6.) What makes your chapter unique? What is/are the main thing(s) that separates your chapter from the other 999 out there?

 

Answering these questions, and getting a very clear picture will make future drafts much easier. However, before anything else, it is YOUR IA, and it is YOUR chapter. You should always remain free to do things however you want. Just be aware that if you post for criticism and comments, you are going to get just that. Do whatever you please, but always make sure you are enjoying it. That's the bottom line. Make it fun and enjoyable for you. I hope this helps, and I look forward to seeing more of the Blood Wolves, however they turn out.

[Wolfy1322]

Combat Doctrine: Suppression and Close combat style fighting. Typically 1 squad suppresses the enemy, while another engages closecombat while they are pinned down. They prefer to fight in urban environments, as it allows for them to gain the advantage more easily. Due to they'rer preference for close combat. The reason for this method of fighting is twofold, the first is that it allows them to control the enemy. the second and most important, is because they have an innate lust for close combat, only those with a great willpower are chosen as devestator marines. The rerst try to avoid contact with the enemy until they are litterally on top of them, at that point, they're blood boils, and they lash out with extreme prejudice. Due to being stationed predominantly around Fenris, the Blood Wolves typically encounter traitor guard and Chaos.

 

Is that what your wanting? Cause that's been there since I first posted.

[Shinzaren]

Open palm. Insert face. That isn't the part of the paragraph we are focusing on.

 

Combat Doctrine: Suppression and Close combat style fighting. Typically 1 squad suppresses the enemy, while another engages closecombat while they are pinned down. They prefer to fight in urban environments, as it allows for them to gain the advantage more easily. Due to they'rer preference for close combat. The reason for this method of fighting is twofold, the first is that it allows them to control the enemy. the second and most important, is because they have an innate lust for close combat, only those with a great willpower are chosen as devestator marines. The rerst try to avoid contact with the enemy until they are litterally on top of them, at that point, they're blood boils, and they lash out with extreme prejudice. Due to being stationed predominantly around Fenris, the Blood Wolves typically encounter traitor guard and Chaos.

This sentence in bold is what we were talking about. Preference for Close Combat is both cool and realistic. That's fine. It's the preference for Urban Combat that makes less sense, and that is what we were railing against. Space Marines fight all over the place, and Urban Environments are a tiny part of that.

[Token]

Hm, they should still be able to speciallise in one enviroment, dont get whats wrong with that.. In my country we have alot of diffirent enviroments that we have specialists for, sure, wer not 7feet warriors clad in power armor, but still, diffirent chapters could specialise in different things.

Sorry for my bad spelling.

[Wolfy1322]

Shinzaren, I'll answer those questions soon, just trying to word them appropriately. I'm still not sure on why Urban combat preference is a no-no. I'd imagine that Space Wolves would have a preference to fighting in a frozen ice region, with lots of snow an' stuff for example, but, I'll tone down the reference to it for the time being, and see how it turns out.

 

 

Blood Wolves

 

The Blood Wolves are a young and largely unknown chapter. Little remains of they're founding, despite being the most recent. No records of they're progenator chapter, or geneseed exists, and even the original members of the chapter can't remember where they are from.

 

Origins: Created as part of the 26th founding. Geneseed record has been lost, as has chapter progeny.

 

History: Unknown to themselves, the Blood Wolves are of Blood Angel geenseed. This has been hidden to them by the High Lords of Terra as an experiment to identify whether the red thirst and black rage are genetic mutations of the geneseed, or simply the insanity passed from blood angel to blood angel by tales of Sanguinus. Records of there origin are kept from prying eyes, and little is revealed of them, outside of when they were founded. Two supposed survivors were charged with training the chapter, one has fallen, and the other mortally wounded to the point that he now lives on in the steel tomb of a Dreadnaught.

 

Home World: Kurt. Hive World, a little beyond Avignor in Segmentus Obscurus.

 

 

Beliefs: TBA

 

Gene-seed: Unknown, records have been lost. (Blood Angel)

 

Combat Doctrine: Suppression and Close combat style fighting. Typically 1 squad suppresses the enemy, while another engages closecombat while they are pinned down. A use of as few explosive weapons as possible allow the Blood Wolves to act as a resecure and retrival force. Tasked with recovering sensitive equipment, vehicles, people and information.

 

Organization: TBA

 

Battle-cry: TBA

[Leonaides]

A use of as few explosive weapons as possible allow the Blood Wolves to act as a resecure and retrival force. Tasked with recovering sensitive equipment, vehicles, people and information

So they dont use boltguns then, do they? Or Frag grenades (kind of useful in those built-up cover-rich environments you were fond of earlier...). Or Meltaguns, or Plasma guns, or storm bolters, assault cannons, or krak grenades, or meltabombs...

 

In fact, that pretty much leaves them with knives, CCWs and harsh language (although thats probably not much of a problem for marines). All marines make excellent re-secure/retrieval troops simply by the fact that they are incredilbly accurate shots, totally dedicated to the mission (willing to die for it without a moments pause) and capable of surviving just about anything the enemy throws at them short of anti-tank weaponry (and they'll still not go down easily to that!).

 

Urban combat specialism is a problem if you spend 20 years fighting NOT in urban areas. You fight where you are sent/where the enemy is and if the enemy arent in urban areas, what are you going to do? Close quarter specialism would cover urban settings, but also cover jungle/wilderness terrain, night operations (where darkness limits the range of the fight), or surprise attacks (typically ambush or drop-pod assault into enemy HQ and kill everything nearby). Its like saying every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. You are trying to be a square, when what you should be is a rectangle (that could be a square).

 

All that nicely sidesteps the small problem in your basic theory in that the Black Rage IS a genetic issue, and the moment one of their guys goes off the deep end and starts telling people he's sanguinius, and wanting to know where the Emperor is so he can asist him during the Siege of Terra or the assault on Horus' ship, that might just be taken as a clue to who they are descended from.

 

More background reading required. More thought applied, and much less 'cool sauce'.

[Octavulg]

Urban combat's fine. The Imperial Fists specialize in it, among others. It shouldn't be their only specialization, but it's a perfectly reasonable one in a universe with hive worlds.

[Wolfy1322]

Don't remember saying that they don't use explosive weapons, only that they use as little as possible.

 

Yes, all marines are great at retrieval, as are all marines great at close combat, and heavy weapons, and so on.

 

Urban warfare, as I have stated in the post that your responding to has been scaled back, and in fact the word urban doesn't even feature in the revision. As such, I'm not even gonna respond to that little rant.

 

Point to the section that states the black rage is not a genetic issue. Oh yea, there isn't a part that says that. A bit of fluff to say that the High Lords are studying it, does not mean that it's not. I haven't retconned anything in Blood Angel history, I haven't said that it's not a genetic issue.

What I've said is

This has been hidden to them by the High Lords of Terra as an experiment to identify whether the red thirst and black rage are genetic mutations of the geneseed, or simply the insanity passed from blood angel to blood angel by tales of Sanguinus.

 

Next time you supply critiscim, try to make it constructive, instead of just saying this is all crap, your rubbish, perhaps, like Shinzaren has done, give examples as to why, and examples of what could possibly be better. And maybe read up on the term "few" you seem to understand it as none, when it simply means not many.

 

 

Edit: Thank you Octavulg for supplying an example. Much apprieciated. I wasn't sure if anyone had such a preference/specialisation.