+Blazing Sons+

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Blazing Sons

 

"They care nothing for your reasons, for what you think the universe has done to you. They have no time for priests preying upon the fear of the masses to induce worship and turn their faces from those who deem it necessary. To them you are responsible for your own fate, for your own soul. To blame the universe for your problems is a failure of spirit, to rely on others to save your soul is a weakness of will. They think we are a weakness, that we pollute the soul with lies and fallacy. They are heretics most foul!"

-Confessor Creznak

 

Deep Philosophical Quote

 

Introduction

 

Origins

 

Home World

Saxon/Anglo-Saxon inspired culture. Small, cold world. Harsh climate a knock on effect of climate changing tech being abandoned during the Heresy. Cold but also sunburned, metal poor and rocky. Was part of the Imperium Pre heresy but was not important enough strategically to fight over and when the war moved past it dropped out of record. Rediscovered by the Sons (somehow), who then rescue them from an invasion by the forces of Nurgle.

 

(( Would it work to have their homeworld be the world they refused to cleanse by order of the Iron Hands? Maybe they saw what the embittered, older cadre could not in the people who fought so valiantly against the incursion. or something. ))

 

Recent History

 

Beliefs

Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

 

Combat Doctrine

 

The Blazing Sons bring their uncompromising attitude to the battlefield with the cold fury their parent chapter is infamous for. The Sons are similar to many of the Astartes in that they believe the best defense is a good offense and as such are rarely found on the redoubts when aiding other Imperial forces and in fact will launch counter offensive operations almost constantly until a forward momentum is established to drive the fight forward to the enemy.

 

Their battle tactics reflect their wider strategic mindset. Once committed to the field the Sons are rarely found in stand off engagements or exchanging heavy weapons fire with enemy emplacements. The advance is constant, brutal and rarely ceases. Overall pressure is preferred to pinpoint strikes and as such the Sons are commonly seen across the length and breadth of a campaign front, each force a handful of squads that support each other when needed.

 

Each man's loyalty is owed to the Emperor before any other and as such the Sons have no sympathy for those rebels and traitors who claim only to have been following their superiors orders. They had a choice and whether they knew it was wrong is irrelevant. Their choice was made and the Sons arrival, the consequence.

 

Organisation

 

The Sons are mostly Codex adherent bar a few minor quirks. They field ten companies of roughly one hundred marines in each. However where the codex advises the presence of reserve and support companies, the Sons have replaced with full battle companies. They believe that their presence is required on far too many worlds for them to ever allow more than only those marines too wounded to carry on to leave the fight.

 

Other than the replacement of the dedicated support groups, the chapter has inherited a few terms and smaller quirks from their homeworld. Each company has one 'Shield Captain' and is supported by his own household veterans who are permanently sworn to that company and that companies captain. When one captain is elected Chapter Master, the previous masters veterans elect a new captain for their company from their ranks.

 

 

Gene-seed

They do not obsess over the weakness of the flesh, but instead focus on a weakness of spirit and lack of will. They may endeavor to afford you the choice as an individual but they will have no mercy upon you if you make what they consider to be the wrong choice. Their uncompromising nature makes this a bit of a gamble for anyone who is forced to deal with them, the only right way is that envisioned by the Sons.

 

Battle-cry

 

Notes:

 

Character: Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Though what I was going for was a more Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves/Death Guard feel. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now I know that this is about the dozenth time I've posted the Blazing Sons in the Liber but honestly, I don't want to give up on them.

My old thread still exists and is linked in my sig, it's still relevant in some aspects and the images I posted there for character reference are indeed still relevant and I don't think I should repost them here. However if you're curious knock yourself out.

this is the first time I've managed to get even a couple of paragraphs in on the Origins section for the Sons as I've been finding it the hardest part to write, though the ideas I'm running with this time round as explained in the orange text seem to be evocative enough to keep my creative juices flowing.

Any suggestions on how to better get the idea across are welcome, but there is more to follow.

Finally, the reason I haven't posted a rough outline first is because I have one in my old thread and it's still mostly the same.

[Dosjetka]

Hello there GHY :) Nice seeing you're not giving up on these chaps!

 

Eventually the urging of their Cadre to massacre the entire population of a rebellious world was too much for the nascent Sons. The lead captain of the first company flatly refused to carry out the order, claiming that they were not all traitors and it was unjust for them to be choosing their fate for them. Any that stood against them would die, but they must be given the choice rather than being killed out of hand. The majority of the Sons united behind their insubordinate captain and threw off the reigns of their teachers.[/left]

I see what you're trying to show here, but I don't really like this part. The problem is, I don't really know why. I guess they seem almost "childish" but I'm not sure. Maybe it's just that I'm not used to this sort of thing.

I'll keep an eye on this and see what others think of it.

 

The rest of it is great and very well written: you get straight to the point and keep it nice and short, though not as short as to leave out detail. (I'm rambling on again :blush:)

 

I hope that you do finish by completing these! :)

 

Ludovic

[Shinzaren]

The Blazing Sons, created during the wonderous seventh founding have made quite a name for themselves over the past milennia

Wondrous doesn't really seem to fit the GRIMDARKNESSOFTHEFARFUTUREWHERETHEREISONLYWAR! to me. Seems too...happy? I dunno.

 

Burning their way through the galaxy, moving like a force of nature, annihilating any and all who stand against them. Their forceful and uncompromising character has won them many great victories against humanities greatest foes

Maybe combine these into one sentence? Both seem to end rather abruptly, and might work better as a single sentence.

 

"Burning their way through the galaxy, moving like a force of nature, annihilating any and all who stand against them, the Sons forceful and uncompromising character has won them a great many victories over humanity's greatest foes."

 

Like that perhaps? That could just be me though.

 

Their history is not studded only with victories however, many tragedies lie within their long history. The near total destruction of the 5th Company on Daevun and the slaying of Shield Captain Paran of the 3rd Company by the order of the mad cleric of St.Marsonis Rest are black marks on the chapters records, but recorded they are nonetheless for their tragedy reminds the newly inducted of their duty and why they can not fail.

This could be rewritten for clarity a bit I think, and I hope you are going to explain these, since you list them with enough gravitas to make me think they are important events.

 

"Their history is not studded only with victories however, and many tragedies lie within their past.(double use of the word history seems clunky) The near total destruction of the Fifth Company on Daevun, and the slaying of Shield Captain Paran of the Third Company by the order of the mad cleric of St. Marsonis Rest are two such black marks on the Chapter's records. They are recorded nonetheless, for their tragedies remind the newly inducted both of their duty, and the price of failure."

 

Again, this is just personal opinion. Feel free to throw it or leave it :teehee:

 

Onwards they march, their ships touching every corner of the Imperium as they persue their never ending campaign against the enemies of Humanity.

Pursue. Not persue. Also, they are all over the galaxy? Seems they would be spread dangerously thin...? Which is maybe the point? Hoping more to follow.

 

A rare convergence of the Sons battle companies upon the region known as the Shroud Stars has drawn the eye of enemies and friends alike in recent years. Whether this bodes ill for the human worlds surrounding the region or will be their salvation is yet to be seen. For now the people wait and pray.

Could also be rewritten a bit. Perhaps?

 

"In recent years, a rare convergence of the Sons Battle Companies upon the region of space known as the Shroud Stars has drawn the eye of enemies and allies. Whether the Sons bring ill tidings, or salvation has yet to be seen by the human worlds of the area, and for now the people wait and pray."

 

The Blazing Sons were given life as a result of the seventh great founding of the Adeptus Astartes. Their original mandate was simple; to prevent the spread of heresy and succession within the Galactic North.

Maybe capitalize Seventh Great Founding? It seems like a title or a proper Noun. I think after mandate a colon would be better than a semicolon, as you are stating what their mandate was.

 

A training Cadre was chosen from the Iron Hands chapter for the two shared the gene-seed of Ferrus Manus and were deemed to be appropriate teachers to the new chapter. Their first campaigns were characteristic of the cold fury of the Iron Hands, though not taken to the extremes seen in the parent chapter.

Iron Hands. I like! Though perhaps explain why they didn't take the campaigns to extremes? Seems odd that the Iron Hands wouldn't wanna train the newbies to be mad haters of all the enemies of the Imperium.

 

The lead captain of the first company flatly refused to carry out the order, claiming that they were not all traitors and it was unjust for them to be choosing their fate for them.

Double use of them at the end could be confusing. Perhaps say,

 

"...claiming that they were not all traitors, and it was unjust for the Sons to be choosing their fate for them."

 

Any that stood against them would die, but they must be given the choice rather than being killed out of hand. The majority of the Sons united behind their insubordinate captain and threw off the reigns of their teachers.

"Any that stood against them would die, but the people must be given the choice rather than be killed out of hand."

 

Cool. Definitely like the idea of the upstarts staring down the notorious cold-hearted veterans. Awesome dynamic.

 

Subsequently the Sons unceremoniously dumped their former mentors on the nearest Imperial held world before gathering their fleet and heading off to forge their own fate. The two chapters have not so much as even exchanged pleasantries since and the Iron Hands barely even acknowledge the Sons existence. The Sons have since become increasingly intolerant of outside interference and reliant upon only themselves.

Awesome, cool tension here, and a really solid image.

 

 

Great start to the Blazing Sons Grey! Noticed some issues with spelling, and sentence structure, but those are all opinion based. No qualms at all with the ideas though. Solid beginning, looking forward to more on these dudes. Nice work :)

[Octavulg]

You, dear boy, need an outline. So desperately it must hurt.

 

Make an outline. Trust me. With the sections and everything. It will help you immensely, by getting your ideas in order, and help us by giving us more than disjointed parts to respond to.

 

Without roots, the tree cannot grow. And that is only the first of the platitudes I will spout if you don't make a damn outline! :teehee:

 

"They care nothing for your reasons, for what you think the universe has done to you. They have no time for priests preying upon the fear of the masses to induce worship and turn their faces from those who deem it necessary. To them you are responsible for your own fate, for your own soul. To blame the universe for your problems is a failure of spirit, to rely on others to save your soul is a weakness of will."

-Confessor Creznak

 

Creznak seems a little closer to Czevak than is necessary. Not a big deal though.

 

Furthermore, if a Confessor is talking about this, he should sound far more negative about them being a bunch of atheists.

 

"I understand your fear perfectly well Governor, but you are not allowed to give in. Your people need you and if you cower here within your fortress while better men than you fight and die in His name I will end you myself!"

-Shield Captain Coenwalh

 

Weak, I'm afraid. Especially without being tied to any particular section or event.

 

The Blazing Sons, created during the wonderous seventh founding have made quite a name for themselves over the past milennia. Burning their way through the galaxy, moving like a force of nature, annihilating any and all who stand against them. Their forceful and uncompromising character has won them many great victories against humanities greatest foes. Defeating the Daemon invasion on Phyra IV, crushing the rebellion in the Scarus sector and harrying the Eldar Craftworld Val'thanar out of the Virtuous subsector are but a small list of their achievements.

 

Why would the seventh founding be wondrous?

 

You're trying a little too hard with all the burningness and stuff. Tone it down. Remember - neutralish Imperial historian.

 

A rare convergence of the Sons battle companies upon the region known as the Shroud Stars has drawn the eye of enemies and friends alike in recent years. Whether this bodes ill for the human worlds surrounding the region or will be their salvation is yet to be seen. For now the people wait and pray.

 

This all feels too specific. The introductory part gives a quick encapsulation of the Chapter's character more than what they do. Traits, not events. Or at least more traits than events.

 

The Blazing Sons were given life as a result of the seventh great founding of the Adeptus Astartes. Their original mandate was simple; to prevent the spread of heresy and succession within the Galactic North. A training Cadre was chosen from the Iron Hands chapter for the two shared the gene-seed of Ferrus Manus and were deemed to be appropriate teachers to the new chapter. Their first campaigns were characteristic of the cold fury of the Iron Hands, though not taken to the extremes seen in the parent chapter.

 

This bit is redundant with the initial paragraph of the introduction (to be clear, it's the introduction that should change).

 

Eventually the urging of their Cadre to massacre the entire population of a rebellious world was too much for the nascent Sons. The lead captain of the first company flatly refused to carry out the order, claiming that they were not all traitors and it was unjust for them to be choosing their fate for them. Any that stood against them would die, but they must be given the choice rather than being killed out of hand. The majority of the Sons united behind their insubordinate captain and threw off the reigns of their teachers.

 

Subsequently the Sons unceremoniously dumped their former mentors on the nearest Imperial held world before gathering their fleet and heading off to forge their own fate. The two chapters have not so much as even exchanged pleasantries since and the Iron Hands barely even acknowledge the Sons existence. The Sons have since become increasingly intolerant of outside interference and reliant upon only themselves.

 

I actually kind of like this. I honestly don't think I've seen a cadre blatantly rebel against its mentors.

 

Now I know that this is about the dozenth time I've posted the Blazing Sons in the Liber but honestly, I don't want to give up on them.

 

Good.

 

Because if you give up on them after all this, I might have to hurt you.

 

My old thread still exists and is linked in my sig, it's still relevant in some aspects and the images I posted there for character reference are indeed still relevant and I don't think I should repost them here. However if you're curious knock yourself out.

 

Concepts should be portrayed, IMO. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

 

this is the first time I've managed to get even a couple of paragraphs in on the Origins section for the Sons as I've been finding it the hardest part to write, though the ideas I'm running with this time round as explained in the orange text seem to be evocative enough to keep my creative juices flowing.

 

You know which part of the Steel Dogs I ended up writing first? Combat Doctrine.

 

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't know where the Chapter came from. But the hard details are less necessary. Create an outline, write sections. Then use the information in those sections to start filling in the other sections.

 

Finally, the reason I haven't posted a rough outline first is because I have one in my old thread and it's still mostly the same.

 

First, that's no excuse. Second, I looked, and your outline could be bigger. And updated since the past three months

[Ecritter]

Only concern I have is (and its the best part of your writeup), the Sons turning against their Mentors.

 

I assumed by what followed that the chapter was complete, or at least mostly complete. So why were the Mentors still there to begin with. I understand that some stay with the new chapter, and some return to the parent chapter. Just not sure here.

 

If the chapter was still being built, I don't see this type of action surviving ... and I mean the marines surviving after the first shot to the head. Why would the mentors allow it ... they were the ones in charge after all.

 

Just a bit of my concern on this.

 

I do have to say, I really like the IA so far.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

You know I think this is the first time, pretty much ever that recieving criticism on my work has made me grin like a madman and laugh. I think it's a good sign. ;)

 

Ok first let's start with Ludovic.

 

I see what you're trying to show here, but I don't really like this part. The problem is, I don't really know why. I guess they seem almost "childish" but I'm not sure. Maybe it's just that I'm not used to this sort of thing.

I'll keep an eye on this and see what others think of it.

 

Well, I suppose in some ways it is a little childish, you are disobeying your elders, your betters. That doesn't mean a child cannot be right despite their disobedience. That said, I'd rather it not come across that way and is something I'm going to be looking to improving.

 

I hope that you do finish by completing these!

 

Thanks! You and me both brother. ;)

 

 

Now for Shinzaren.

 

Everything you've touched on is absolutely right. This is a first draft situation, admitedly and it was about 6am when I wrote most of this so I think I lost a lot of focus in between. I also think that I got the point across of what I was trying to do, rather than just having a rather large mess like I usually do, which is good.

 

I'll edit in the changes right now I think, rather than waiting till later and forgetting about it or procrastinating too much and then forgetting about it. ;)

 

Iron Hands. I like! Though perhaps explain why they didn't take the campaigns to extremes? Seems odd that the Iron Hands wouldn't wanna train the newbies to be mad haters of all the enemies of the Imperium.

 

That's the main bit that I didn't expand properly I think. It relates to where they threw off the Iron Hands. It's more about the focus of individual choice, but only for humanity. Xenos make their choices too, but since they are not human and are not under the aegis of the Blazing Sons and the Astartes as a whole, that they are the enemy is enough to hate them simply because they are choosing their fate. To die at the hands of the Sons. ;)

 

Great start to the Blazing Sons Grey! Noticed some issues with spelling, and sentence structure, but those are all opinion based. No qualms at all with the ideas though. Solid beginning, looking forward to more on these dudes. Nice work :)

 

Cheers! Grammar has always been a bit of a nemesis for me. It's usually pretty good and I can easily say that it's better than most, it's just not good enough for any real professional writing that an IA, while fan made definitely is. I really appreciate the help here though.

 

Again, this is just personal opinion. Feel free to throw it or leave it

 

Yes it is your personal opinion, but yours is one of a few that I trust and value without having to get into a discussion about what your criticizing, it's all good my friend!

 

Pursue. Not persue. Also, they are all over the galaxy? Seems they would be spread dangerously thin...? Which is maybe the point? Hoping more to follow.

 

Whoops. Fixed. Dangerously thin? Yes that's one of the original points I had for them, that they push themselves a little harder than is advisable, though perhaps a bit less than I am implying here. Most chapters are gallivanting around the Imperium even at the most peaceful of times, what I mean for the Sons is that even when a mission is completed, they don't return home, they don't celebrate in a great feast, they just keep moving.

 

The individual marines themselves are free to do what they please once they are underway and many small ceremonies between squads and companies are probably common, just nothing ostentatious and absolutely nothing that delays their proceeding to the next war zone.

 

 

 

Now for Octavulg.

 

 

Creznak seems a little closer to Czevak than is necessary. Not a big deal though.

 

Furthermore, if a Confessor is talking about this, he should sound far more negative about them being a bunch of atheists.

 

Well, that's true, but it's less about them being athiests and more about them dismissing the entire Imperial church as fallacious and shallow. That and not being diplomatic about it, or even keeping it to themselves. I could add a line or two here, though I'd rather the implication of the confessors religion being criticised by these marines be implicit rather than having to have it totally spelled out. I think I need to rewrite it.

 

Weak, I'm afraid. Especially without being tied to any particular section or event.

 

I'm inclined to agree. It's a holdover from the last draft and was supposed to be indicative of the Blazing Sons disregard for procedure and to a great extent, rank. The Governor called for help and unfortunately, didn't get the kind that he wanted. I'll remove it for now but I might be able to salvage it at some point.

 

Why would the seventh founding be wondrous?

 

You're trying a little too hard with all the burningness and stuff. Tone it down. Remember - neutralish Imperial historian.

 

Why wouldn't an Imperial Historian think that an Astartes Founding wasn't wondrous? Ok I digress, you're right and I will tone it down a bit.

 

This all feels too specific. The introductory part gives a quick encapsulation of the Chapter's character more than what they do. Traits, not events. Or at least more traits than events.

 

Damnit, caught in my own trap. You're absolutely right and though events express character, I obviously haven't written expressive enough events. Time to take a second look.

 

This bit is redundant with the initial paragraph of the introduction (to be clear, it's the introduction that should change)

 

Unfortunately I wrote both pieces at two different times, they did bleed into each other in terms of what needs to go where. I'll need to do a bit of separation.

 

I actually kind of like this. I honestly don't think I've seen a cadre blatantly rebel against its mentors.

 

Thanks, it's something I'd been thinking of in reference to the Sons to try to find a way that explains their non-Iron Hands-ey nature and I think that this way expresses more character than other, circumstantial methods may have achieved. That said, it needs to be written a lot better than it is now to get away with it.

 

Good.

 

Because if you give up on them after all this, I might have to hurt you.

 

I can believe that and is something I will be trying extra hard to avoid. Pain is something I wish to avoid at the moment, and in the future! ;)

 

You know which part of the Steel Dogs I ended up writing first? Combat Doctrine.

 

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't know where the Chapter came from. But the hard details are less necessary. Create an outline, write sections. Then use the information in those sections to start filling in the other sections.

 

Ok I'll admit, I'm a little obsessive with build order in IA's. If I can't do the Origins I feel like I'm skipping ahead too fast and not having enough background for what are essentially the smaller details of the chapter.

 

First, that's no excuse. Second, I looked, and your outline could be bigger. And updated since the past three months

 

It's an excuse, just not a good one. Yeah my outline could be bigger and updated but I don't particularly want to draw on that for this draft since some things have evolved and been adjusted. I often have trouble going back to old work and using it for newer stuff and would honestly rather redo the thing if I must.

 

Thanks for the quick replies. :D

 

Edit: You posted while I was posting Ecritter! I didn't mean to miss you.

 

I assumed by what followed that the chapter was complete, or at least mostly complete. So why were the Mentors still there to begin with. I understand that some stay with the new chapter, and some return to the parent chapter. Just not sure here.

 

If the chapter was still being built, I don't see this type of action surviving ... and I mean the marines surviving after the first shot to the head. Why would the mentors allow it ... they were the ones in charge after all.

 

Well in my mind they were somewhere between being over half strength but not being quite fully developed yet. Their teaching Cadre were in the process of indoctrinating them with the Iron Hands ideals, philosophies and methods of war. Indoctrination in this manner takes a rather long time with a lot of reinforcement. I also don't think a training Cadre is a fly by night, fleeting exchange of information. They stay on so long as they deem it necessary to be there I think.

 

The Training Cadre would also only be one officer and his chosen selection of marines, not enough to stand against a united few companies of marines.

 

Edit2:

 

Hey look at that I actually did all the edits I said I was going to do without procrastinating or forgetting. Now to add another section before I go back and take a proper look at the first stuff, I don't want to get hung up too much on the early draft, I'd just rather have the starting sections exist first as a leg up for the rest.

[Lysimachus]

Excellent work GHY, never give up on these guys! I like these first sections and I can't see any issues that the others haven't already mentioned, only other thing I did spot is being really nitpick-y over capitalizing, e.g. Captain, Chapter, Founding, etc. but that's not important right now anyway!

 

Really looking forward to the next bit! (I'll have to try and get in first so I can offer something more constructive without just repeating what everyone else has already said ;) )

[Brother Argent]

Yes. Write more. Captain Coenwahl demands it.

 

 

I haven't had a chance to read this properly yet. I hope to get a good look soon. But yeah, an outline would be great. Anyway, back to the Schemeatorium.

[Dosjetka]

Well, I suppose in some ways it is a little childish, you are disobeying your elders, your betters. That doesn't mean a child cannot be right despite their disobedience. That said, I'd rather it not come across that way and is something I'm going to be looking to improving.

I agree with the part I put in bold, but, as you said, if you could re-write it, that would be better, IMO.

 

Thanks! You and me both brother.

Yep :)

 

Am looking forward to the next update!

 

Ludovic

 

Edit: Sent you a PM last night, just wanted to know if you got it or not. Cheers ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Now I know that this is about the dozenth time I've posted the Blazing Sons in the Liber but honestly, I don't want to give up on them.

 

Wait , you think you're allowed to give up on them?

I mean, you could, but think of all the constant, unending nagging you'd avoid by finishing the IA. :pirate:

 

I'll take a better look after the weekend rolls past, and see if I can conjure up anything useful to say. :thanks:

[Octavulg]

Well, that's true, but it's less about them being athiests and more about them dismissing the entire Imperial church as fallacious and shallow. That and not being diplomatic about it, or even keeping it to themselves.

 

These days, that's usually implicit in the term atheist. :) :P

 

I could add a line or two here, though I'd rather the implication of the confessors religion being criticised by these marines be implicit rather than having to have it totally spelled out. I think I need to rewrite it.

 

The point is that the Confessor's insufficinetly upset and hostile about it. The implication was clear enough (or close to it), it's just that the Confessor seemed to be taking it in stride. Imperial Church authorities do not take things in stride.

 

I'm inclined to agree. It's a holdover from the last draft and was supposed to be indicative of the Blazing Sons disregard for procedure and to a great extent, rank. The Governor called for help and unfortunately, didn't get the kind that he wanted. I'll remove it for now but I might be able to salvage it at some point.

 

Sadly, it does not convey it.

 

"You called us Governor, and we came. And now you will do as we ask of you. Come. The battlefield awaits."

 

Damnit, caught in my own trap. You're absolutely right and though events express character, I obviously haven't written expressive enough events. Time to take a second look.

 

Careful - look at the introductory paragraphs of GW IAs:

 

"Since the founding of their Legion at the birth of the Imperium, the Space Marines of Dark Angels have been feared by their enemies and held in awe by those they protect. Stubborn and relentless in battle, ever vigilant and zealous in pursuit of their duties, the Dark Angels are among the Emperor's most faithful servants. Yet it was not always so. For ten millennia, the Dark Angels have harboured a sinister secret, an act so terribie and shameful it threatens everything the Dark Angels hold most dear - and may yet bring them eternal damnation." - IA: DA

 

"The Iron Warriors were the battering ram of the Great Crusade, hurled at every unbreakable wall or inaccessible citadel that stood between the Emperor and the establishment of the Imperium of Man. The blood and sweat shed during those distant times was wasted when the Iron Warriors turned on their brother Space Marines on Istvaan V and ensured that their once-proud name would be forever synonymous with treachery and heresy." - IA:IW

 

"Since the ancient times of the Great Crusade, the Ultramarines have fought at the forefront of the Emperor's armies. Highly disciplined and courageous warriors, the Ultramarines have remained true to the teachings of the holy Codex Astartes, the greatest work of their Primarch, Roboute Guilliman, for ten thousand years. Tales of their victories are told from their home world, Macragge, to the sacred halls of Terra. Whenever the enemies of Mankind threaten the Imperium, the Ultramarines stand ready to fight them." - IA: UM

 

It's not events. It's a synopsis of the Chapter's character and the important events which shaped it, with some hyperbole thrown in to fill space.

 

Thanks, it's something I'd been thinking of in reference to the Sons to try to find a way that explains their non-Iron Hands-ey nature and I think that this way expresses more character than other, circumstantial methods may have achieved. That said, it needs to be written a lot better than it is now to get away with it.

 

It needs some further explanation, but the motivation was decent. Not sufficiently explained, but decent. And I liked the reaction.

 

Ok I'll admit, I'm a little obsessive with build order in IA's. If I can't do the Origins I feel like I'm skipping ahead too fast and not having enough background for what are essentially the smaller details of the chapter.

 

Ah, but small details don't necessarily come in the later sections. You can have big ones there, too.

 

Furthermore, think of it this way: do you know how you want the Chapter to become what you want? Or do you know what you want the Chapter to be?

 

I think you know what you want the Chapter to be, but aren't sure how to get there. And that suggests you should write the other parts, then write the Origins in order to get the Chapter there.

 

Almost all my IAs were conceived of in that order, even if I usually end up writing the Origins first or second. You know what you want in a Chapter, and see how they must get there. The trick is making it seem like it happened the other way around.

 

It's an excuse, just not a good one. Yeah my outline could be bigger and updated but I don't particularly want to draw on that for this draft since some things have evolved and been adjusted. I often have trouble going back to old work and using it for newer stuff and would honestly rather redo the thing if I must.

 

You must. Go. Now. Fly, little monkey!

 

Come back with an outline.

 

You can't cook well without the recipe.*

 

I meant it with the platitudes...

 

Well in my mind they were somewhere between being over half strength but not being quite fully developed yet. Their teaching Cadre were in the process of indoctrinating them with the Iron Hands ideals, philosophies and methods of war. Indoctrination in this manner takes a rather long time with a lot of reinforcement. I also don't think a training Cadre is a fly by night, fleeting exchange of information. They stay on so long as they deem it necessary to be there I think.

 

It makes sense. However, since Space Marine indoctrination is generally pretty effective, you need to explain why they go against it.

 

The obvious explanation to me would be a tendency toward chivalry on their home world that the Iron Hands hadn't noticed.

 

*Yes, children, Octavulg knows you can cook without a recipe. But you still work it out in your head, if you have any sense.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

You must. Go. Now. Fly, little monkey!

 

Come back with an outline.

 

You can't cook well without the recipe.*

 

I meant it with the platitudes...

 

Well I'm stupidly tired because it's stupid o clock right now where I am so here's something terribly basic just to get you to stop with the damn platitudes.

 

Character:

 

Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Though what I was going for was a more Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves/Death Guard feel. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

 

Homeworld:

 

Saxon/Anglo-Saxon inspired culture. Small, cold world. Harsh climate a knock on effect of climate changing tech being abandoned during the Heresy. Cold but also sunburned, metal poor and rocky. Was part of the Imperium Pre heresy but was not important enough strategically to fight over and when the war moved past it dropped out of record. Rediscovered by the Sons (somehow), who then rescue them from an invasion by the forces of Nurgle.

 

(( Would it work to have their homeworld be the world they refused to cleanse by order of the Iron Hands? Maybe they saw what the embittered, older cadre could not in the people who fought so valiantly against the incursion. or something. ))

 

Aesthetics and visual character:

 

For the Sons the key piece of readily identifiable wargear that a lot of the marines carry would have to be a round shield. Various other Saxon imagery abound as you'd expect but that round shield is relatively iconic. That and axes over swords and maybe the odd pelt here and there. I want to get across 'northern European' without crushing Space Wolf toes in the process. Minor details in all, really.

 

Combat Doctrine is similar to Codex warfare bar a move away from static long ranged warfare. They are balanced but if given the choice will prefer to get in the enemies face and rip them apart with bolters and blades.

 

Geneseed and parent:

 

Iron Hands, but not like the Iron hands. Too simple? :lol:

 

They do not obsess over the weakness of the flesh, but instead focus on a weakness of spirit and lack of will. They may endeavor to afford you the choice as an individual but they will have no mercy upon you if you make what they consider to be the wrong choice. Their uncompromising nature makes this a bit of a game of Russian Roulette for anyone who is forced to deal with them.

 

 

 

Eh I'm rapidly losing focus here and I think I'm beginning to ramble so I'll stop and see if I can clean any of this up when I wake up. I think I've made some parts too personal in how I've described them. I'm also starting to confuse myself so I'd better get some shut eye.

 

I think I did what I was meant to do, didn't I?

[elohimalpha]

I like how they focus on weakness of spirit rather than weakness of flesh - their Chaplains must be a lot of fun. What's their relationship with the Emperor and the Primarchs like? As atheists, how do they deal with daemons (asking because the Grey Knights blast em with their piety...)?

 

Good stuff so far, and your outline looks solid! I especially liked that they would allow a population to prove they aren't traitors - it makes them heroic without making them Mary Sue. Nice work

[Octavulg]

Well I'm stupidly tired because it's stupid o clock right now where I am so here's something terribly basic just to get you to stop with the damn platitudes. laugh.gif

 

A watched pot never boils. But an annoyed one does.

 

(( Would it work to have their homeworld be the world they refused to cleanse by order of the Iron Hands? Maybe they saw what the embittered, older cadre could not in the people who fought so valiantly against the incursion. or something. ))

 

Could do.

 

I think I did what I was meant to do, didn't I?

 

Not quite sexy enough. Try this:

 

[skullheader=XXXXXX]SOMETHING CLEVER AND INSIGHTFUL: THE BLAZING SONS[/skullheader]

[i]Deep Philosophical Quote[/i]

Introduction

[b]Origins[/b]

[b]Home World[/b]
Saxon/Anglo-Saxon inspired culture. Small, cold world. Harsh climate a knock on effect of climate changing tech being abandoned during the Heresy. Cold but also sunburned, metal poor and rocky. Was part of the Imperium Pre heresy but was not important enough strategically to fight over and when the war moved past it dropped out of record. Rediscovered by the Sons (somehow), who then rescue them from an invasion by the forces of Nurgle.

(( Would it work to have their homeworld be the world they refused to cleanse by order of the Iron Hands? Maybe they saw what the embittered, older cadre could not in the people who fought so valiantly against the incursion. or something. ))

[b]Recent History[/b]

[b]Beliefs[/b]
Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

[b]Combat Doctrine[/b]
Similar to Codex warfare bar a move away from static long ranged warfare. They are balanced but if given the choice will prefer to get in the enemies face and rip them apart with bolters and blades.

[b]Organisation[/b]

[b]Gene-seed[/b]
They do not obsess over the weakness of the flesh, but instead focus on a weakness of spirit and lack of will. They may endeavor to afford you the choice as an individual but they will have no mercy upon you if you make what they consider to be the wrong choice. Their uncompromising nature makes this a bit of a game of Russian Roulette for anyone who is forced to deal with them.

[b]Battle-cry[/b]

[b]Notes: [/b]

Character: Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Though what I was going for was a more Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves/Death Guard feel. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

 

What you'll want to do (IMO), is take a good close look at IA: IH. Then set up some parallels - and explain some differences.

[Shinzaren]

Rough, unrefined, uncompromising and intolerant of others failures and on the surface this makes them similar to the Iron Hands. Though what I was going for was a more Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves/Death Guard feel. Collectively sombre, honour bound and driven by duty. Their respect is earned and constantly reinforced by your actions though a single miss step can bring you back to square one very easily.

Fits the popular saying in most business: "One 'Aww Sh**' makes up for 20 'Atta boys'." Good, though you may want to delve deeper into what separates them from Iron Hands on this point, especially in their uncompromising attitude.

 

 

Saxon/Anglo-Saxon inspired culture. Small, cold world. Harsh climate a knock on effect of climate changing tech being abandoned during the Heresy. Cold but also sunburned, metal poor and rocky. Was part of the Imperium Pre heresy but was not important enough strategically to fight over and when the war moved past it dropped out of record. Rediscovered by the Sons (somehow), who then rescue them from an invasion by the forces of Nurgle.

The problem with this is that the conditions necessary to support the majority of life are rather exacting. Perhaps the Terra-forming tech works just enough to make it livable, but not comfortable? As opposed to allowing the atmosphere be stripped away entirely or something. Also, Nurgle worries me. His invasions are so pestilent and virulent that cleansing them completely without wiping everything out is a challenge. Which could be the point I guess. They systematically exterminated Nurgle while doing a very Un-Iron Hands thing and spared the populace. That would definitely set up the tension you need between the two.

 

(( Would it work to have their homeworld be the world they refused to cleanse by order of the Iron Hands? Maybe they saw what the embittered, older cadre could not in the people who fought so valiantly against the incursion. or something.))

Perhaps, especially with the point I raised earlier about Nurgle being so hard to eradicate. I can definitely see the Iron Hands wanting to cleanse it completely.

 

Aesthetics and visual character:

 

For the Sons the key piece of readily identifiable wargear that a lot of the marines carry would have to be a round shield. Various other Saxon imagery abound as you'd expect but that round shield is relatively iconic. That and axes over swords and maybe the odd pelt here and there. I want to get across 'northern European' without crushing Space Wolf toes in the process. Minor details in all, really.

The problem with shields is that they don't mesh well with Guns. They throw off your balance, make it hard to aim, and generally get in the way. Perhaps each marine gets one but keeps it strapped on his back until he needs it? Which would be even cooler if they came with a blade? Sheathed inside? I think face paint is a big step in the right direction. War paint/tattoos that each marine gets? Perhaps campaign/accomplishment based?

 

Combat Doctrine is similar to Codex warfare bar a move away from static long ranged warfare. They are balanced but if given the choice will prefer to get in the enemies face and rip them apart with bolters and blades.

This works fine. Lots of chapters prefer CC, mine included. It's just cooler to picture them face to face and duking it out.

 

They do not obsess over the weakness of the flesh, but instead focus on a weakness of spirit and lack of will. They may endeavor to afford you the choice as an individual but they will have no mercy upon you if you make what they consider to be the wrong choice. Their uncompromising nature makes this a bit of a game of Russian Roulette for anyone who is forced to deal with them.

This is good, perhaps with an example or two of how the wrong choice can lead to conflict, both subtle and overt? I would also like to see a bit more on why they favor flamers and burning? Cleansing the spirit through fire? Love the smell of roasting meat?

[Ecritter]

I still can't get my head around the 'refusing to follow orders part.' Firstly, that's the deepest part of marine training, do as you're told even if it means walking straight into death. Perhaps if you gave a reason why they refused the order. I mean we all know killing innocents is wrong, even marines may know that .. but orders are orders. They follow orders to advance the greater good (sounds kinda Tau like, but it fits here too).

 

I really do like the idea, please don't get me wrong. I just think it needs some explanation to make it more believeable. I look forward to seeing more.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Firstly, that's the deepest part of marine training, do as you're told even if it means walking straight into death.

 

Arguably that is the job of most front-line soldiers no matter what the time period. You walk into situations that may well end in your death just because you are told to. The difference between carrying out an order that you believe in and one you don't is down to the individual soldier. Whether you can in good conscience do what is being asked of you if you object to it on some deep personal level is down to your own individual measure of integrity and dealing with your own conscience.

 

Why they disobeyed their orders? Because one of their officers did not believe in it and his personal stand on the matter drew others to him. Sometimes all you need is one person to take a stand against something you know is wrong in order for you to yourself be able to do follow suit. Not everyone is able to take the first stand.

 

Anyway I've been far too absent working with pen and paper recently instead of the B&C Digital medium. :P

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Combat Doctrine:

 

The Blazing Sons bring their uncompromising attitude to the battlefield with the cold fury their parent chapter is infamous for. The Sons are similar to many of the Astartes in that they believe the best defense is a good offense and as such are rarely found on the redoubts when aiding other Imperial forces and in fact will launch counter offensive operations almost constantly until a forward momentum is established to drive the fight forward to the enemy.

 

Their battle tactics reflect their wider strategic mindset. Once committed to the field the Sons are rarely found in stand off engagements or exchanging heavy weapons fire with enemy emplacements. The advance is constant, brutal and rarely ceases. Overall pressure is preferred to pinpoint strikes and as such the Sons are commonly seen across the length and breadth of a campaign front, each force a handful of squads that support each other when needed.

 

Each man's loyalty is owed to the Emperor before any other and as such the Sons have no sympathy for those rebels and traitors who claim only to have been following their superiors orders. They had a choice and whether they knew it was wrong is irrelevant. Their choice was made and the Sons arrival, the consequence.

 

 

Organization:

 

The Sons are mostly Codex adherent bar a few minor quirks. They field ten companies of roughly one hundred marines in each. However where the codex advises the presence of reserve and support companies, the Sons have replaced with full battle companies. They believe that their presence is required on far too many worlds for them to ever allow more than only those marines too wounded to carry on to leave the fight.

 

Other than the replacement of the dedicated support groups, the chapter has inherited a few terms and smaller quirks from their homeworld. Each company has one 'Shield Captain' and is supported by his own household veterans who are permanently sworn to that company and that companies captain. When one captain is elected Chapter Master, the previous masters veterans elect a new captain for their company from their ranks.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

I was considering having the Sons be raiders like a lot of Saxon heritage has them as given that they are a part of viking culture, but I'd rather move away from anything that harks a bit too much of Space Wolves, given the fairly similar cultural material used.

 

I want them to be seen as more of an overwhelming tide that simply chews through the enemy army, applying typical Astartes tactics whenever give the opportunity, but on a smaller scale than the usual drop-pod assault into the melee type deal. That said, I'm not looking towards wars of attrition, simply the fact that the Sons are supposed to enter a conflict and simply roll over the enemy, never losing momentum.

 

If they are being slowed down they commit more forces to the sticking point until the pace picks up once more, rather than kicking down the kings door and killing him, then leaving the Sons kick down everyones door and then move onto the next house, so to speak.

 

Make sense?

[Ace Debonair]

Make sense?

 

Yep, pretty much. Not so much 'cut off the head and the body will die' as 'cut off everything and be extra-certain'.

I'd keep with the saxon thing, though, even if it's only with subtle flavours.

 

Otherwise you'll be taking personality quirks out and replacing them with battlefield doctrine. Square pegs, round holes and all that jazz.

[Lysimachus]

Yep, I like it. Gets that Iron-Hands-but-not feel across very well. If you had to sum their doctrine up in one word, it'd be 'relentless'.

 

Got something to show you/get your opinion on but need to get my camera out! Will post again in a couple of days. (Oooh, mysterious! :tu: )

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

(Oooh, mysterious! :eek )

 

I like mystery, as long as it's a good end result, not death by Cthulu, as it were. :huh:

 

I'm still working rather slowly on this but still, at least it's moving forwards. Thanks for the input guys.

[Ace Debonair]

I'm still working rather slowly on this but still, at least it's moving forwards. Thanks for the input guys.

Not if this whip I have here has anything to say about it. Mush boy mush!

Aha! A chance to spring your own snappy remark on you! :D

Ahem.

 

I mean, take your time if you have to. :P

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Oh you are a wit Ace, a real wit. :)

 

I must admit though, I set myself up beautifully for that one.

[Ace Debonair]

Oh you are a wit Ace, a real wit. :o

 

I must admit though, I set myself up beautifully for that one.

 

I try my humble best. :D

[Lysimachus]

Any updates GHY? Here's something to (hopefully) motivate you:

 

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/simoncherylm/Iron%20Gods/bsmelta.jpg

 

Managed to put together my (Iron Gods) Blazing Sons melta gunner, tried to use bits to get the slightly celtic/saxon feel across and posed to show off that 'always pushing forward' m.o, walking forwards relentlessly, weapon firing.

 

Hope you like, and that you don't mind one of your brave men having become a dastardly renegade! ;)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Any updates GHY? Here's something to (hopefully) motivate you:

 

That is just awesome Lysimachus! Thank you, that has made my day. :P

 

On updates, I know there haven't been many (read: any) lately, but that's because I only seem to get the urge to write, the inspiration to write or the free bloody time to do it when I have nothing but a pen and a piece of paper handy. This makes translating it to the computer a fair pain in the rear.

 

That said I'm working on the Beliefs section at the moment because they are the strongest of the core concepts within the chapter. They also link to parts of the Homeworld section too, which will all get uploaded eventually.

 

No, just like the Blazing Sons, I haven't given up. :)