Dr_Boomstick Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 So possibly my topic description is being a tad blunt :teehee: Essentially, I'm using the Blood Angels codex for a new chapter, and I would like to use the baal, but I know that the BA guard the plans ferociously. I Had already planned on restyling the turret, and so I was wondering if it would be viable to say that my chapter had developed their own pattern of predator. I have to say, the fluff fanatic in me cringes at this a little bit, and I'm wondering if I'll just have to leave the baals out of my list. They are one of my favorite vehicles, but I would like a way of them fitting nicely. Any ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Why are you using the BA rules without being a BA successor, out of curiousity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Not really no. Basically, the Blood Angels were a bunch of jerks who decided to selfishly take the only known STC for making Baal Class Predators. However. There may be a couple ways to sort of swing around this. Perhaps your chapter has a Land Raider Crusader that is a horribly damaged. They take the surviving assault cannons, the same twin-linked ones on the Baal, and mount them on a Predator who's main gun has been damaged. Voila, instant Baal. Let rest for 30 mins, then Heat and Serve. That's just me though. I dunno how to actually make it work. Maybe someone more versed in the mechanics of vehicles in the 41st millennium can be more help? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Boomstick Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 I'm using it for the POWAHGAMING!!! Actually, I'm using it because of the CC stuff. I have decent fluff floating around in my head for what the red thirst rule counts as. EDIT: Having thought about it, I might change to using the normal marine codex. Just a shame about no troop assault marines, no furiosos, no intervening vanguard, and no cheap devastators. It will make me a sad puppy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 The other trick is the (stupid evil Matt Ward drek) Lucifer Engines. I mean, overcharged was explicable. Those...are trickier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Boomstick Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Yes, true. I'm rapidly (I only opened this thread less than an hour ago)starting to think that all of these counts as explanations are actually going to end up hurting the character of the chapter and making it too fanboyish. I may need to tone back the CC aspect of the chapter and go with the vanilla dex, and then put more of an emphasis on Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemeers. The furiosos really are a shame, but I may just have to do them as part of a small BA force at some point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Yes, true. I'm rapidly (I only opened this thread less than an hour ago)starting to think that all of these counts as explanations are actually going to end up hurting the character of the chapter and making it too fanboyish. I may need to tone back the CC aspect of the chapter and go with the vanilla dex, and then put more of an emphasis on Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemeers. The furiosos really are a shame, but I may just have to do them as part of a small BA force at some point. We call this the Octavulg Effect. Basically, it's a recurring phenomenon in which ideas that were once considered cool and amazing are slowly reduced to rubble before an onslaught of facts and pointed observations. Side effects of the Octavulg include enlightenment, regret, and a general feeling of accomplishment. Consult your Doctor before determining if Octavulg is for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Boomstick Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 His name conjures images of an octopus vulva (this will surely be deleted). That's not an insult btw, I'm just bizzare. To be honest, I was a bit iffy about it before, but seeing it in a post kind of solidified it for me along with the posts from you guys. How comptetitive are standard marines atm anyway? I guess the answer to that will vary by person. I just wanted to bust open the BA toybox, WAAAH! Maybe I'll have to *GASP* play something with its intended fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 This is the DIY forums :P If you have playlist questions, list questions, or gaming questions, I think you need a new forum :woot: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Boomstick Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Derailing my own thread would have been fun. I doubt how playable they are will make much of a difference to me anyway. Unless they are like Necrons. I think that pretty much wraps this thread up anyway! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argon Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 If your chapter is renegade, this becomes much, much easier. You "borrow" one. Not from the Blood Angels themselves, obviously. Successor chapters work well for this, especially if you make one up yourself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Shinzaren: We call this the Octavulg Effect. Basically, it's a recurring phenomenon in which ideas that were once considered cool and amazing are slowly reduced to rubble before an onslaught of facts and pointed observations. Side effects of the Octavulg include enlightenment, regret, and a general feeling of accomplishment. Consult your Doctor before determining if Octavulg is for you. Octavulg is for everyone. Dosages will be applied forcibly if necessary. :lol: Dr_Boomstick: His name conjures images of an octopus vulva (this will surely be deleted). That's not an insult btw, I'm just bizzare. It has nothing to do with that, but I thank you for disturbing me on several levels. If it consoles you any, Dr_Boomstick is downright Freudian. I just wanted to bust open the BA toybox, WAAAH! Maybe I'll have to *GASP* play something with its intended fluff. Hell, if you want CC, play Black Templars. All you lose is the Whirlwinds, and all you have to explain is why your Scouts are in with your Tacticals (hint: for better training). Vows are easy, and plenty of Dorn Chapters already use the Emperor's Champion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I have a Chapter that uses the BA dex but isn't a BA successor... (I do not like the BA and their whole "vampires" bleh - nor the "all BA successors are off to Baal to defend it" bleh!). This Chapter's first Baal Predators were "recovered" from a long forgotten battlefield (land stand of some BA successor), they just copied the design from the wrecks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 You don't really need to justify it. What you do on the tabletop and what you do in the fluff are two different kettles of power-armoured fish. That said, the Baal Predator is a particularly prickly issue and has been discussed back and forth many times before. Honestly I don't know what to tell you, it's not an easy thing to pull off, but I think it's doable as most anything is if the writing is good enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2538358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eryx_UK Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Or you could do what I've done for my Salamanders, which is use the Baal model but use it as TL-assault cannon razorback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2539414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekim_Trub Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Because i have to have the Baal model, i'm planning on just using it as a "copy". All the glory of the assault cannons, just no Lucifer engines. But i like my forces fluffy and sod winning, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2539558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 But i like my forces fluffy and sod winning, lol. Man after my own heart! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2539666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Or your chapter just took it by force. I don't see why Chaos wouldn't have any problem in stealing things from loyalist chapters. Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2539855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aggrippa Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 These are space marines we are talking about, i bet theres dozens of loyalist chapters that would take on by force, or just simply nick one when theres no one looking Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2544153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Honestly, in an IA or any history of a DIY chapter I just wouldn't mention it. Struggling to explain why your tanks are faster than mine wouldn't be fun or interesting - and if you've got a black rage/red thirst stand-in, people are already going to konw what codex you're looking to play. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2544481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 They stole it. The BA can have it back if they can prove it was theirs. Of course, admitting it is theirs will mean having to admit to being jerks and hogging the STC. Which will put great strain on their relationship with the AdMech. and by this your chapter is sticking two fingers up at the BA and bro-fisting the cog-boys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2546092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 They dont have to prove it was theirs - you have to prove it isnt. And since they're the only ones who have any, that becomes a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2546133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 The conversation would be something like this That's ours. Give it back. Nope its ours. Look, its got our heraldry painted on it. Don't touch it, the paint has not yet dries. I can prove that it's ours. Really? Yes. No other chapter has Baal Pattern equipment. Really? Damn right. Then it is made from unsanctioned techno-blasphemy. I will destroy this one if you destroy all the abominations in your chapter. It is not Blasphemy. It is from a sacred STC file. Surely not, if it were then the Mechanicus would know how to build it. Do the Cog-Heads know how to build it? No they do not, so either you have been using unsanctioned technology, and that's heretical, or you have stolen a sacred device from the Mechanicus which is Blasphemous. SO WHICH SIN DO YOU WANT TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED FOR YOU EMO SCUM?! YOU TRAITOROUS PRETTY BOY HERETICS! Whole chapter does the troll face and moon-walks away whilst giving the two finger salute. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2546782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I think Ace has made an important note here - you don't need to justify everything in an IA just to be allowed to take it on the tabletop. For example, if the Death Hounds use the Space Wolf codex, I don't need to explain every little piece of wargear or unit upgrade, but I do need to explain the broad organisational differences etc. Even further, if I want to have a White Scar dreadnought, it doesn't overly matter because the background and TT are different. In this case, either just play with the Baal if you wish to use it but you don't need to explain it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2546894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 SO WHICH SIN DO YOU WANT TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED FOR YOU EMO SCUM?! YOU TRAITOROUS PRETTY BOY HERETICS! Amusing as this is, I don't think threatening a first-founding chapter is the best course of action, frankly and seems more like asking to get your arse handed to you rather painfully. Then again, the implication is that this conversation would never take place, to my mind. Either the newer chapter wouldn't have the tank or the Blood Angels wouldn't ask anhy questions, but then they may never even meet on the field of battle, apart from larger crisis events like a Black Crusade or Hive Fleet. In such cases I think the younger chapter may use their heads and not have their captured/stolen technology on the same field as the ones they salvaged it from unless the battle was utterly desperate to the highest degree. In any case I am on the same page as Ace, and always have been. Leave the Tabletop and the Fluff seperate if you can. Having the fluff influence the wargame itself is fine, but having tabletop rules influence the fluff is nearly always a terrible idea. It's simply too hard to justify stratified rulesets within the shades of grey that are present in storytelling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213322-chapters-designing-new-vehicles/#findComment-2547255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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