BFG

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

simple question, i've always preferred to go the mosquito fleet route with most any 'naval' sort of game.

i already have some imperial firestorms and regular cruisers (it's been a while so i for get what class they are) just ordered some cobras and a BB(just because...i mean c'mon everyone has to have a BB)

 

but any way i just like the idea of more smaller ships that still pack a punch (love WWI and WWII destroyers and light cruisers)

[Viray]

My fleet is going the same route (mostly because of fluff and a tiny, tiny bit of monetary issues ;) ). My 500 pts list consists of a Strike Cruiser, 4 Hunter Class Destroyers, and 3 Novas. My reasoning is that, during games, the Strike Cruiser and its 3 Nova escorts arrive to aid the Hunter patrol against a threat a little over their heads. It works, right? ;)

[Captain Idaho]

To be honest, BFG should have a minimum requirement of Escort vessels in each fleet, to encourage more fluffy fleets and most importantly, game balance and variety. Or make Escorts disproportionately cheaper game wide (like a 10pts discount if you have a certain amount of escort vessels. Obviously Tyranid Escorts can't include the Drones in this, as they can be 10pts any (or was it 5pts?).

 

My Imperial fleet (Bastion Fleet) has is a Cruiser fleet (contradicting everything I said above), with 4 Dauntless light cruisers, 6 Cruisers and an Apocolypse Battleship (bought before I realised it only had a movement value of 15cm and therefore was almost useless!).

 

This fleet represents the Ultramar fleet, whilst I intend to get an Ultramarines fleet consisting of quite a lot of escorts (about 4 Hunters, 8-10 Gladius and 4-6 Nova), 4 Strike Cruisers and probable 2 Battle Barges.

 

I think that list is very fluffy and will give me a good few options on the table top.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

...so i got bored at work tonight/this morning, and named all my ships (that means even the cobras) and named the commanding officers of each ship...9 ships, 9 officers 18 names, and two short 2-3 paragraph stories for fluff.

[Vaaish]

I go all heavy route with my IN fleet taking two grand cruiser and a battleship. I also take two dauntless to use as escorts for the the bigger ships since they provide effectively the same function but are a bit more durable than escorts most of the time. TBH, I disagree completely with Idaho, making escorts mandatory would be detrimental to game balance since some races like eldar are most powerful when fielding large numbers of escorts and other races, like chaos, work best with few or no escorts under most circumstances. It's also creates problems against ordnance heavy fleets since mandatory escorts provide easy VP against races like the SG Tau with their resilient bombers and guided torpedoes.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

personally i think you should have at least 5 escorts per capital squadron. more fluffy in my opinion. big old battleships running around all over everywhere with rare classes of battlecruisers escorting them just doesn't pan out for me...

 

 

then again i play in this universe for the fluffy aspect of it.

[Viray]

I go all heavy route with my IN fleet taking two grand cruiser and a battleship. I also take two dauntless to use as escorts for the the bigger ships since they provide effectively the same function but are a bit more durable than escorts most of the time. TBH, I disagree completely with Idaho, making escorts mandatory would be detrimental to game balance since some races like eldar are most powerful when fielding large numbers of escorts and other races, like chaos, work best with few or no escorts under most circumstances. It's also creates problems against ordnance heavy fleets since mandatory escorts provide easy VP against races like the SG Tau with their resilient bombers and guided torpedoes.

I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't a comprimise somwhere in between be best? Maybe something like 40k's FOC. I mean, the fluff is what we play for really.

 

...so i got bored at work tonight/this morning, and named all my ships (that means even the cobras) and named the commanding officers of each ship...9 ships, 9 officers 18 names, and two short 2-3 paragraph stories for fluff.

So share. :lol:

 

I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I go all heavy route with my IN fleet taking two grand cruiser and a battleship. I also take two dauntless to use as escorts for the the bigger ships since they provide effectively the same function but are a bit more durable than escorts most of the time. TBH, I disagree completely with Idaho, making escorts mandatory would be detrimental to game balance since some races like eldar are most powerful when fielding large numbers of escorts and other races, like chaos, work best with few or no escorts under most circumstances. It's also creates problems against ordnance heavy fleets since mandatory escorts provide easy VP against races like the SG Tau with their resilient bombers and guided torpedoes.

I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't a comprimise somwhere in between be best? Maybe something like 40k's FOC. I mean, the fluff is what we play for really.

 

...so i got bored at work tonight/this morning, and named all my ships (that means even the cobras) and named the commanding officers of each ship...9 ships, 9 officers 18 names, and two short 2-3 paragraph stories for fluff.

So share. :lol:

 

I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

alright.

Battle Fleet Thenarse roster

 

Admiral Pelini- Emperor's Passion, Retribution Class Battleship

Captain Mahrtinez- Blade of Heaven, Mars Class Battlecruiser

Captain Lee- Divine Right (when i named it i didn't realize there was already a fluffy cruiser with that name) Armageddon Class Battlecruiser

Lieutenant Amukamura- True Light, Firestorm Frigate

Lieutenant Steinkuhler- Bliss of Ignorance, Firestorm Frigate

Captain Suh- Pride of Heaven, Firestorm Frigate (squadron commander)

Lieutenant Pahul- Swift Vengeance, Cobra Class Destroyer

Lieutenant Johnston- Pride of Thenarse, Cobra Class Destroyer

Lieutenant LaCombe- Vengeance of Thenarse, Cobra Class Destroyer

 

(all but the last two officers are named after members ((past and present)) of the nebraska cornhuskers)

 

 

The Thenarse Sector is a new addition to Imperial space (relatively speaking) pushing into the Tau Empire, and as such for the first few centuries of it's existence had nothing more than a handful of monitor and system defense boats to call upon. During the initial push into what is now the Thenarse Sector, the Battleship Emperor's Passion was crippled and boarded by the Tau. The ship was left as the rest of the fleet chased their xenos enemy away, and after 1,500 years was finally recovered and brought to port in the sector's only forgeworld for repair and refit, and that is how Battlefleet Thenarse began. The fleet as it stands today could be considered a scrap fleet, because not only was it's flagship a refurbished ship, but so were all of the escorts ships currently patrolling it's shipping lanes. It's two battlecruisers were built on the planet of Corinthinan under contract and are the only ships that were built for the sector.

 

The Emperor's Passion was given a chance to redeem herself, when she sortied out against a Tau flotilla alongside the Blade of Heaven. The Blade accounted for the destruction of two escort ships, while the Emperor's Passion crippled three escorts a cruiser and destroyed the flotilla's flag ship. The Blade of Heaven was severely damaged during the fight and had to make it's way back to port in real space requiring Admiral Pelini to escort the vessel back.

[Vaaish]

I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't a comprimise somwhere in between be best? Maybe something like 40k's FOC. I mean, the fluff is what we play for really.

 

On this issue, not particularly. You would be hurting some fleets and benefiting others with any mandatory inclusion of escorts which would require some fairly significant adjustments to ensure balance. Changes of that magnitude just aren't going to be happening to the BFG rules at this point. If your group can settle on bringing only fluffy fleets, then by all means have fun, but I don't see mandatory escorts being warranted or needed in BFG with the issues it would cause.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

i don't really buy the whole 'some fleets aren't good with escorts' thing, sounds like operator error to me. granted i don't have much room to talk yet, since atm i'm only collecting (but from reading game rules and ship rules i don't see why any single race would be at a disadvantage)

[Vaaish]

i don't really buy the whole 'some fleets aren't good with escorts' thing, sounds like operator error to me. granted i don't have much room to talk yet, since atm i'm only collecting (but from reading game rules and ship rules i don't see why any single race would be at a disadvantage)

 

Whether or not you buy it doesn't change how things work. For example, chaos is a fleet that typically forgoes using escorts and usually takes 6 cruisers and a battleship in a 1500 point game. The reason for this is their cruisers are just about as fast as escorts and provide far longer range weapons that the typical escort while avoiding many of problems associated with escorts. Chaos also has easy access to attack craft which provides them a replenishable alternative to escorts and grants them access to assault boats which excel at hunting enemy escorts. These assault boats are partly the issue because they ignore armor value and, so long as they survive the escorts turrets, will kill the escort on a roll of a 2+. This is changing a bit soon to make it a 4+ rather than the 2+, but you can still see how escorts can be wiped out fairly easily to a wave of AB. Even if the AB fail, it's no real loss because you are able to launch more the following turn. Cruisers, on the other hand, don't suffer from the instakill on a critical like escorts do making them more desirable than escorts since they aren't as easily neutralized. Basically, with the capabilities of assault craft and the durability of cruisers there isn't any reason to take escorts in the chaos fleet because the role they perform is already filled by more capable options.

 

This changes drastically if you are playing as eldar because of their special rules. Holofield saves are 2+ against anything except weapons batteries making their escorts much more difficult to take down. Combined with their excessive firepower (pulse lances, always closing batteries, re-rolling torpedoes), expensive cruisers, and high speed, it makes more sense for the eldar to take more escorts so that a few losses don't severely impact the fleet. That's where you get into fleets of 25 escorts and a VS with eldar. For Eldar, mandatory escorts make would push them toward some of the most powerful fleet builds.

[Grey Mage]

I play Eldar Corsairs, and personally I find I prefer a build of 3 escort squadrons to 2 cruisers/light cruisers. Alot of fun, though a bit fragile.

 

Imperial I prefer 2 Cruisers or battlecruisers per escort squadron, to keep my flanks covered.

 

Chaos, I tend to take few escorts- usually the torpedo boats, though the Idolator is very effective in my experiance. Though I admit that theyre less needed in a chaos fleet than any of the imperial fleets.

 

Still, outside of Necrons, most people will take them.

 

Why? Because frankly theres alot of attack craft in my area.... imperial and chaos players love to take alot of the lil buggers, and that translates into them cancelling each other out alot of the time. The ability to up turrets by being in base to base helps alot too, and torpedo boats often do this anyways.

 

Escorts help them kill the armies that IN, SM and Chaos fleets will often have the worst times with- Eldar, and to a lesser extent Orks. I fear a squadron of 3 Swords more than I do a Tyrant.

[Captain Idaho]

You’re probably right Vaaish, as you have much more experience than me regarding actually playing the game. But of course the principle I spoke of would surely be sound if game balance was paramount (but I’m now talking about bigger changes to the game, so it becomes a moot point really)?

 

Of course, the current state of the game, like you said Vaaish, is not going to be changing soon, so barring house rules there is little point in making such changes to escorts.

 

I personally will be getting a few Escorts for my Space Marines (in the far future only. Money is tight) as their speed and massed firepower are awesome. Seriously, Gladius moves 30cm and a squadron of 5 has 20 firepower!

 

Escorts help them kill the armies that IN, SM and Chaos fleets will often have the worst times with- Eldar, and to a lesser extent Orks. I fear a squadron of 3 Swords more than I do a Tyrant.

 

Hmm, it is always interesting to see a different opinion. I'm gona get some escorts and damn the torpedos! And if all else fails, I just wont play Eldar :(

[Vaaish]

Marines are considered a bit underpowered, but they are one of the fleets where escorts can be used effectivly. This is due to the enemy hit and run attacks succeeding on a 3+ rather than a 2+ due to the marine special rules (this will be changing soon to attacks against marine ships succeeding on a 5+) and the high speed of their escorts.

 

TBH, if you want to have more fun with escorts and more fluffy fleets, just make a house rule limiting the amount of carriers you can take to keep AC from overwhelming them or replacing their function.

[Viray]

Marines are considered a bit underpowered, but they are one of the fleets where escorts can be used effectivly. This is due to the enemy hit and run attacks succeeding on a 3+ rather than a 2+ due to the marine special rules (this will be changing soon to attacks against marine ships succeeding on a 5+) and the high speed of their escorts.

 

TBH, if you want to have more fun with escorts and more fluffy fleets, just make a house rule limiting the amount of carriers you can take to keep AC from overwhelming them or replacing their function.

Woah, wait, what? BFG still gets updates? ;)

[Vaaish]

Actually, quite a major one in the works. Obviously the core rules won't be changing that much, but there is a new 2010 faq that's in the final draft stages as well as some new fleet lists for Marines, Tau and Rogue traders mainly to bring in some of the FW models that don't have rules or can't normally be used in games and rewriting the rules for the abomination known as the Sedditio Optimare.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

my retribution class BB and my cobra squadron are here now :)

 

any way, something i had brought on the portmaw forums, in regards to the IN how well do you think the classifications compare to WWII ships of the same class. i believe some one from portmaw compared Cobras more to PTs than to DDs while frigates were still frigates, and IN BBs being in a class beyond anything that would be possible to compare to WWII in regards of relative firepower and size.

 

just curious, how you guys see.

 

(didn't realize how tiny cobras were though...oh well.)

[Techmarine Data007]

Tiny being a relative term. Look up the comparison between a Cobra and a Star Destroyer.

[Captain Idaho]

Actually, quite a major one in the works. Obviously the core rules won't be changing that much, but there is a new 2010 faq that's in the final draft stages as well as some new fleet lists for Marines, Tau and Rogue traders mainly to bring in some of the FW models that don't have rules or can't normally be used in games and rewriting the rules for the abomination known as the Sedditio Optimare.

 

What is the deal with this update? Is it fan based because I can't find it on the GW website anywhere?

[Vaaish]

The update is being done by the HA group which are the three people GW entrusted the rules to after active development ended. Once it's finalized it'll show up on the GW site. It's not finished, so not up there yet.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Tiny being a relative term. Look up the comparison between a Cobra and a Star Destroyer.

i saw something like a comparison between an imperial battleship and a star destroyer once, i haven't seen exactly how big a SD is supposed to be according to Mr. Lucas, then again i've also never seen much fluff that gives sizes for ships in the warhammer 'verse, and what i have seen all seems contradictory.

[Techmarine Data007]

Cruisers are around 5 km, and battleships are between 7 and 8, though there are unique vessels that are bigger.

[mughi3]

I lean more towards cruiser fleets. escorts have thier place but some fleets do escorts better than others.

chaos does not really need escorts while the IN/marines relies on them in great variety. and eldar or necron escorts are extremely durable.

 

The other problem i have is that aside from my necrons i tend to go carrier heavy with my marines and chaos because it is quite simple that AC are a better option than escorts.

 

I can reload fighters and bombers to times infinite so long as my carriers survive. the ordinance gets to move twice and is thus faster than an escort. escorts only take one hit to destroy and they never come back.

[Techmarine Data007]

As for the actual topic at hand, I use a cruiser line backed up by a Retribution, in my Navy. The Marines take 5 Strike Cruisers backed by a Battle Barge. I want more escorts for both fleets though.

[Iron Lord]

Tiny being a relative term. Look up the comparison between a Cobra and a Star Destroyer.

i saw something like a comparison between an imperial battleship and a star destroyer once, i haven't seen exactly how big a SD is supposed to be according to Mr. Lucas, then again i've also never seen much fluff that gives sizes for ships in the warhammer 'verse, and what i have seen all seems contradictory.

 

Most figures I've seen for the standard Imperial I Star Destroyer (A New Hope) and Imperial II Star Destroyer (The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi) place it at 1600 metres long (1.6 km).

 

The new Rogue Trader game, and the expansion Into The Storm, provide length figures for several cruisers and escorts.

 

The Cobra is 1.5 km, the Sword 1.6 km, the Firestorm 1.8 km, the Dauntless light cruiser is I think 3km or so, and the Lunar and Tyrant class cruisers 5km. I haven't seen any battleship stats yet.

 

The accelerations are much lower than the listed accelerations on Wookiepedia though- 6G for an escort, and rather less for a cruiser, whereas on Wookiepedia Star Destroyers have accelerations of 1000G or more.