Black Legion in the UM movie?

[Lay]

Perhaps after 200 years of fighting there is not much room for improvement left.

In 40k, there's probably no upper limit for this. The fluff may have moved away from the all-veterans approach in 3.5, but the 5th edition rulebook still acknowledges that CSM can have millennia of combat experience.

[Legatus]

*shrug* That was the same in 2nd and 3rd, and basic Chaos Marines usually had the same stats as loyalists. Though the 3rd and 3.5 Codices had rules for armies with a large number of veterans, those veterans were still not much different from loyalist Veterans. So you can either complain that no Chaos Codex ever has accurately represented the basic Chaos Space Marine, or you can try to explain why they probably are not that much different from loyalists in their capabilities.

[Ulfast]

In the end it comes down to that this is a movie. And like every other movie ever made, in the begining the bad guys are king, killing and are usually awsome. But when our heroes step in, they become like kindergarden pupils that can hardly pick up a gun. Just watch any Die hard, or similiar movie. So we have to take everything with a piece of grain. I think that they made this movie not only for 40k fans but also for more regular people too :P

 

p.s for my personal view, I think a CSM would be better then a regular marine, one on one but a battle is never about that and in the bigger picture I think the Loyalist forcces have a better organisation. Which meens the fight becomes much more even.

[Captain Tezdal]

Well, after 10,000 years CSM have mastered the art of carrying a bolter, bp, and ccw....still ahead of most loyalists there at least.

[Gree]

I'll go ahead and say that Deathwatch is not really needed. Orks and Eldar are pretty much the standard enemies of Space Marines aside from rebels and cultists.

 

Not quite.

 

Fluffwise, Eldar are ridiculously rare when one takes into account of the Imperium's size and the scale of it's wars. Far more common would be the various minor alien races that live in wilderness space, the Maelstorm at the Imperium's borders, etc etc. The Tau are an example of one of these races who actually got a Codex.

 

Plus then you have the Tyranids who defeintely pose a much bigger threat to the Imperium than the Eldar. But they have only arrived 250 years ago.

[Legatus]

However, only about 5% of all Chapters will have ever encountered Tau, due to their very confined location. The other xeno species are probably a bit more active than Eldar, but they will be very regional as well, though not as limited as the Tau. Certain sectors may have Hrud or Tarellian problems, but those species are just not scattered all over the galaxy like Humans and Orks are. The Eldar will not be figting constantly, but at least they can be expected to be encountered everywhere. And of course "Eldar" would not just include the Craftworld variety but also the spiky ones and Exodites.

 

Edit: The point being, Space Marines are fighting xenos all the time. There is no need for a specialist "anti xenos" formation. The main purpose of the Deathwatch seems to be so that the Inquisition has astartes crack teams available to deal with imminent threats, without having to formerly request assistance from one of the Chapters.

[Gree]

However, only about 5% of all Chapters will have ever encountered Tau, due to their very confined location.

 

I use Tau as an example. Minor alien races are going to be encoutnered far more than the Eldar.

 

The other xeno species are probably a bit more active than Eldar, but they will be very regional as well, though not as limited as the Tau. Certain sectors may have Hrud or Tarellian problems, but those species are just not scattered all over the galaxy like Humans and Orks are. The Eldar will not be figting constantly, but at least they can be expected to be encountered everywhere. And of course "Eldar" would not just include the Craftworld variety but also the spiky ones and Exodites.

 

I'm lumping all the minor alien races together because generally they are the same type of threat, populous, but regional. Eldar are everywhere, yes, but they are rare. I would be suprised if a Chapter fought Eldar (Even of all kinds) more than a handful of times a century. Even the Dark Eldar are ridiculously tiny compared to the breadth of the Imperium.

 

Edit: The point being, Space Marines are fighting xenos all the time. There is no need for a specialist "anti xenos" formation. The main purpose of the Deathwatch seems to be so that the Inquisition has astartes crack teams available to deal with imminent threats, without having to formerly request assistance from one of the Chapters.

 

I was not adressing that point. You seemed to imply that Eldar were somehow a common level of threat on the level of orks. They are not.

[Legatus]

Of all the Codex forces I would put the Eldar (probably including Dark Eldar) at second place in terms of how common the Imperium has to deal with them. But admittedly much less than encounters with Orks. Orks make up probably about half of the Imperial battles, while Eldar may be about 5%. Of course, the other main opponent next to Orks are Rebels and Cultists who do not even have a Codex.

[Supreme Overlord]

Of course, the other main opponent next to Orks are Rebels and Cultists who do not even have a Codex.

 

But one can always "count as" with the Guard codex, as I plan to for my Word Bearers Traitor Guard/Cultists.

 

On the subject of Xenos, after all the really old 'dexes and our very own CSM codex are redone, I for one would like to see another Xenos race represented, simply because they are basically the most common enemy the Imperium faces, yet on the tabletop there is only Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, Eldar and Tau.

 

I agree that Deathwatch are not completely necessary, but if it will keep the Ordo Xenos off the Astartes' back even just a bit, then why not! :)

[Lord Tharand]

You guys are overreacting a little bit. There clearly is an Ultramarine getting blown apart in trailer 2 and the big explosion looks like a bunch of Ultra's caught in it. Also, the first trailer shows the Ultramarines getting shot to pieces. So, it would appear that a good amount of death is going to be dished out by both sides.