Heresy Era and Razorbacks

[Candleshoes]

Simple, quick and to the point:

 

Was the reason why Razors weren't included in the Chaos dex grounded in the background (ei: they just simply didn't exist at the time) or, was it just a army flavour choice with no fluff reasoning?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Razorbacks were a post-Heresy "invention".

[Candleshoes]

Thanks a bunch.

[Hellios]

Thanks a bunch.

 

On that note although I've not seen it said a lot of the things that are supposed to be post-heresy are now being included in the heresy for the HH books (so take it however you take the HH books or BL books in general)...

 

Was it the case that the Vindicator used to be Post-heresy... its certainly in the codex now.... again was the Whirlwind post-heresy? because I think they might be mentioned in the HH books now...

 

Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons are certainly in the HH books and they were post-heresy but they are noted I think to be proto-types or newly introduced into the legions.

 

Basically unless you can find a specific bit of fluff that says the RB SCT was found after the heresy I think their is a good chance a Chaos force might have have a few of the early ones... they could also obviously steal them... but I guess this is to do with fluff :lol:

 

Anyway thats my bit.

[--eFTy-->]

Considering that the last Chaos Marine Codex is more like 'codex renegades', the actual reason that chaos marines don't have razorbacks, whirlwinds, ironclads, land speeders, assault cannons, cyclone launchers, storm bolters, infantry plasma cannons & multimelta and all the other good stuff is a little planet called Retcon Obscuris.

[Ulfast]

Would it not be intersting if we could have something similiar to orks, a looted tank or other stuff, like 0-1 option in a future codex? Should fit the fluff as many chaos mariens (specially renegades) are actually common marines that just has defected and should have that tech.

[Midwest]

In the 2nd ed. Chaosdex, you could in fact take "loyalist" equipment not available in the Chaos Codex itself.

 

IIRC, you paid either a 25% or 50% premium (fex if something cost 100pts in the loyalist book, you paid 125 or 150pts for it). Don't remember the full details now - I know you could use the rule to take vehicles, can't remember if it also allowed equipment and weapons for characters.

 

Edit: According to the 2nd ed. battle bible, CSM could take any Wargear or Vehicle Cards marked "Imperium only" at 50% over normal cost. Terminator-only wargear could only be taken if you were using post-heresy Termie armour instead of the normal Chaos Terminator armour (i.e. if you wanted to give your chars post-heresy termie weapons/gear, you needed to buy them post-heresy termie armour).

[the jeske]

you needed huron for that .

 

as options go in the chaos codex , not giving chaos all loyalist options is suppose to make us different . now as long as the chaos options are viable to take and more then one per slot , we end up with many different army build , if not then we end up with what we have today .

[Cpt_Reaper]

The way I see it is we have "equivilent" wargear that is easier to maintain/held on from the heresy/fills the role. I don't mind having autocannons instead of Assault cannons, and the Defiler is essentiall artillery. I read somewhere that vindicators were invented in the heresy by sticking a "thunderer cannon" on the front of a rhino chassis.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The way I see it is we have "equivilent" wargear that is easier to maintain/held on from the heresy/fills the role. I don't mind having autocannons instead of Assault cannons, and the Defiler is essentiall artillery. I read somewhere that vindicators were invented in the heresy by sticking a "thunderer cannon" on the front of a rhino chassis.

 

The Defiler was artillery. Now, it's not. <_<

[Cpt_Reaper]

Mine acts like artillery because nobody wants to get close to it, so I a tad biased. It does the job but it's no Iron Warrior basilisk

[satanaka]

I've never understood why GW hasn't given Chaos any Razorbacks. It really wouldn't take a massive genius to reverse engineer a captured or destroyed one.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I've never understood why GW hasn't given Chaos any Razorbacks. It really wouldn't take a massive genius to reverse engineer a captured or destroyed one.

 

It's a tissue paper-armored metal box with a gun. How much of it do you think typically remains intact after a battle? :)

[satanaka]

Prolly about as much as is left when an M-2 Bradley takes a 120mm shell into it.

 

Which is enough to figure out how it was built.

[Zeller]

It would be great if we had some more vehicle options and other types of fast attack. Vanilla get so many options while Chaos is left 10,000 years in the past. :)

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Prolly about as much as is left when an M-2 Bradley takes a 120mm shell into it.

 

Which is enough to figure out how it was built.

 

I'll assume you have never seen an M2 Bradley take a 120mm round, but I have, and it looks like this:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/Zeonfiend/Bradley2.jpg

 

Good luck reverse-engineering that. :P

 

Now, while the sheer devastation of the battlefield might explain why no one's been able/willing to deliver a Razorback to the Dark Mechanicus for copy and pasting onto the already-granted Rhino STC, it certainly does not explain why the post-Heresy renegade Chapters haven't produced such for mass consumption. That quirk of logic isn't explained away so rationally; in fact, I'd hazard to say the only reason is just sheer "We didn't wanna give them to Chaos." ;)

[Hellios]

Prolly about as much as is left when an M-2 Bradley takes a 120mm shell into it.

 

Which is enough to figure out how it was built.

 

I'll assume you have never seen an M2 Bradley take a 120mm round, but I have, and it looks like this:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/Zeonfiend/Bradley2.jpg

 

Good luck reverse-engineering that. :tu:

 

 

Well I am almost a genius... but I think I could reverse engineer the tracks from that picture... and from there... it is only a matter of time Muhahahahahaha!

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Well I am almost a genius... but I think I could reverse engineer the tracks from that picture... and from there... it is only a matter of time Muhahahahahaha!

 

Your Rhino already gave you tracks, cheater! :tu:

[nurglez]

reverse engineer a razorback? surely you just take a rhino and stick a bigger gun on it?

 

but yes, they wanted to make chaos different, and in one of the older codex, chaos had older wargear, which was riskier but generally did more damage, like plasma guns, instead of being able to fire on low power or full power but then needing to recharge for a turn, ours were sustained fire (1 2 3 or jam ;)). oh well, if you want loyalist toys use a loyalist codex really...

[Zeller]

I venture there is enough of the engine to take a look at it from that wreckage. Road wheels are there, drive sprocket, tracks, intact sections of armor plating, and a headlight. Now all you're missing is the gun and electronics.

 

***

Variant A

 

1. Take a predator.

2. Remove sponsons.

3. Swap turret weapons.

4. Profit.

 

See what I did there? Step 3 was present in this set of instructions. All that remains is figuring how to squish the 6 marines around the turret basket.

 

Variant B

 

1. Take a land raider

2. Remove sponsons

3. ???

4. Profit.

 

In this example we have an AV14 razorback. Even better. B)

[Octavulg]

I've always assumed it was a doctrinal thing - the Legions don't care to use them. And the Renegades don't because they can't/don't make their own stuff, and nobody cares enough about their opinions to do it for them. B) That, and they likely take rather more maintenance than a standard Rhino.

 

Whirlwinds are ostensibly post-Heresy but showed up in the original Space Marine board game, which was set in the Heresy. So their absence is a little weird.