Ironclad Painbringers

[Brother Captain Ed]

So, I just picked up an Ironclad. I like the way they look and the extra AV seems like a nice little investment considering how many times the lower value has shrugged off grenades, fists, etc. But, they have a sizable list of wargear that I've never even seen played before.

 

Thus, I seek the collected wisdom of my brothers: What is the right* way to roll out an Ironclad?

 

 

 

*Right = The most versatile and best concentrated pain for the fewest point investment.

[Jackelope King]

Thus, I seek the collected wisdom of my brothers: What is the right* way to roll out an Ironclad?

As with pretty much everything in the Marine Codex and 5th Edition in general, in multiples. One Ironclad stomping across the table doesn't scare anyone. Three do. Six even moreso. The only upgrade they really want for are some hunter-killer missiles to smack the opponent over the head and make sure they realize that these Ironclads are a threat from turn 1 (and hopefully blow up some transports).

[Xeonic]

I think the HK missiles are a waste unless you're fielding them en masse in the rest of your list. You'll most likely always be running or popping smoke on an Ironclad. If you're podding it as a distraction(the way most seem to be fielded locally, which I think is silly) you'll pop smoke and assault next turn(if you survive...)

 

There are only a couple really good options IMO. Storm bolter to Heavy flamer upgrade, as the Ironclad is vulnerable to being tarpitted for all eternity just like most other dreads(aside from cheezy blood claws on furiosos), and the flamer is good crowd control.

And of course the Frag assault launchers(to get those I4 strikes in with your S10 DCCW, and remember it's also defensive grenades!). I suggest you Keep the seismic hammer, as the chainfist helps very little when you have 4 charging S10 attacks with +1 on the damage chart.

As for the others:

Taking the chainfist over a seismic hammer... eh. Seismic hammer is S10 with +1 on the damage chart, at initiative. The chainfist is S10 with 2d6 pen at I1. There's also some debate as to if or not the chainfist can give a dread +1 attack for two close combat weapons as well(the walker rules in the BRB vs the Chainfist rules in the codex, DCCW are not powerfists nor chainfists, but the BRB seems to indicate that *maybe* a walker can get the attack bonus from any CCW, also opens interesting questions of if or not you can opt to use your DCCW instead of the chainfist to strike at I and still claim the bonus attack). Put simply there's few vehicles 4 S10 attacks can't flatten, and most of them are superheavy.

Swapping your meltagun for a flamer sacrifices anti-armor power for antihorde power, but I think overall the melta is a better choice, since you can already pack one heavy flamer in the place of your Storm Bolter. Since you wreck vehicular face anyways you may want to take this upgrade regardless, but it's at least useful outside of 6" if you fall short to assault. Two heavy flamers is fearsome for sure and no infantry wants to be on the receiving end of that. Flamer overkill keeping you from assaulting might be a problem, but your defensive grenades may also help if you "accidently" kill too much and are forced to recieve a charge.

The hurricane bolter looks fun but really, it's a CC dread, so those 4 extra bolt shots(remember you replace your storm bolter!) aren't worth losing an attack to me. If you want a dakka dread a normal assault cannon does better, especially a Venerable. Dakka paired with AV13 is something to consider though.

The HK missiles -could- be good, if you want to hang back and volley fire them in conjunction with other HK missiles in your list. I personally have a poor opinion of HK missiles in general and taking two of them seems just twice as wasteful.

 

Thus my pattern ironclad optimal build is seismic hammer with meltagun, DCCW with heavy flamer, frag assault launchers. Can burn hordes, is useful at 12" shooting transports or lighter vehicles, and wrecks face even charged or charging into cover. Ideally deployed in pairs or possibly with other patterns of dread to provide redundancy and target saturation.

 

As for use, you can either pod them in as suicide distractions or to attack an exposed flank or weak point, or walk them up behind a vehicle screen for that delicious obscured coversave on AV13. They're great supporting in assaults or just generally wrecking anything vehicular or not packed with 2d6 pen or *lots* of S8/9 weapons. Make no mistake though, they're just support units in the same way that all dreads are, only instead of being protected by range, you're being protected by AV13 and slightly better close combat potential.

[ShinyRhino]

I've always run mine with Assault Launchers, and two HK missiles. No other upgrades needed. HKs have unlimited range, so I fire them at long-bomb targets for shots of opportunity on side and rear armor. An Ironclad might look goofy running downfield on the edge of the board, until it turns and puts an HK or two into the side armor of a Predator or Vindicator and makes it die.

[Biorebel]

I field mine in the pattern Xeonic mentioned. With Vulkan, an ironclad loaded out like that is a big distraction in your opponents backfield. Sadly because it can't jump out of that pod and get into assault on turn one, I find it tends to get killed the ensuing turn. Usually by some rogue guy with a melta. But it's really nice when you pop that Land Raider holding your opponents HQ and his entourage.

 

I tried pulling the pod for an HK on two Ironclads during 'ard boyz. I found that made them a LOT less efective, with most opponents simply ignoring them and going after other units instead.

[chaplain belisarius]

i use mine as a drop podding distraction/kamikaze unit with 2 hunter killer missiles, heavy flamer and meltagun...works pretty well as a sacrificial unit...;)

[Validar]

While I agree with the general interpretation that multiple ironclads is a scary thought, I usually don't like the one-unit spam.

 

Personally, I have used an ironclad with melta and flamer in a drop pod with much effectiveness. Army 13 is pretty hard to get through, it can take care of everything from troops to tanks in close combat, so when it drops right in your flank you simple HAVE to take it down. Even in the games where it gets destroyed somewhat fast, it still earned itself home by keeping my two vindicators safe from all the evil anti-tank!

 

Just don't drop it by a melta-zone and you'll have yourself a unit that your opponent HAS to take care of! It works

[jbarket]

I'm also a fan of the HKs on Ironclads, but only if there are points to burn. If you're using it as a distraction against opponents who are likely to have low armor value transports, I like running 2 HFs and 2 HKs. HFs can potentially destroy AV10, and the HKs should have an easy time with it, but this really only works if it's a distraction. If you're planning on fielding more than one so that it may make it a few turns, keep the melta. Punching a tank to death is awesome, but blowing the tank up and then punching the infantry inside it to death is effective.

 

Do what you can to make good use of the drop pod too. If there's no immediate melta threat near an objective, you've got an annoying storm bolter platform contesting that objective even if they hose the Ironclad.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Ok, so maybe I'm having a blond moment, but I've heard that HK's are good on Ironclads (or so some say, at least), but I don't know why. Maybe it's because I pod my dreads in close, but it seems to me that I generally have either vehicles to hit with a melta (or DCCW) or troops to assualt, so why would I need them? Am I missing the boat on something here?

[LardO'Blood]

You have an extra weapon to destroy, it has some fear factor and it helps if you want to weaken a MC before the charge. Plus if you scatter to far you have a transport killing weapon that can fire 48".

[Jackelope King]

Ok, so maybe I'm having a blond moment, but I've heard that HK's are good on Ironclads (or so some say, at least), but I don't know why. Maybe it's because I pod my dreads in close, but it seems to me that I generally have either vehicles to hit with a melta (or DCCW) or troops to assualt, so why would I need them? Am I missing the boat on something here?

HK on an Ironclad serve two purposes. First, they let you do something on turn 1, possibly allowing you to even the odds and knock transports out from under a few enemy squads. Since Dreads move at full-ahead waddle, this is helpful.

 

Second, they make your enemy immediately see AV13 Walkers as threats that need to be stopped at all costs, taking fire away from the rest of your army. Suddenly the Ironclads aren't Walkers that the enemy can ignore for a turn. They are shooting and now they're coming at you OH MY GOD STOP THEM NOW!

 

This is especially critical when you back up a wall of Ironclads with light firebase units like Typhoon speeders, fragile vehicles that need fire drawn away from them to be effective.

 

As an added bonus, any HKs left allow the Ironclads to project after the first few turns and hit distant enemy targets. This is really just gravy, though.

[Xeonic]

The other side of the HK argument is that if you're walking them up the board, the two HKs are no better than any other HKs(meaning if you don't use them already you won't use them now). They basically give the dread for 20 pts the damage output for a single turn of a land speeder typhoon. Podding I can see them as a viable tactic, pod in and pop off the two HKs at vulnerable rear/side armor. Of course then you can't pop smoke and must accept the full brunt of any and all firepower directed your way.

Most of the time I'd personally rather spend the points on two combi weapons somewhere than spend it making a suicide unit a marginally better/more threatening distraction. It's worth noting that a normal dread ML costs the same as one HK(though it's worth noting in this case it removes your DCCW and Ironclads just get the HKs extra).

Then again, I don't think spending ~200 pts on a unit and then throwing it potentially into mech/bike melta threat range with no save and no support(as seems to be relatively popular on the local TT) is really a viable tactic, but that's just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

If I were podding an ironclad I'd support it with podded tac squad, veterans, or another dread, fairly easy to coordinate with the drop pod assault rule.

[Warp Angel]

Thus, I seek the collected wisdom of my brothers: What is the right* way to roll out an Ironclad?

As with pretty much everything in the Marine Codex and 5th Edition in general, in multiples. One Ironclad stomping across the table doesn't scare anyone. Three do. Six even moreso. The only upgrade they really want for are some hunter-killer missiles to smack the opponent over the head and make sure they realize that these Ironclads are a threat from turn 1 (and hopefully blow up some transports).

 

I disagree with all of the above.

 

All of it.

 

I've never needed to field more than one in the Hunter role with launchers, melta-gun and heavy flamer, delivered by deathwind launcher equipped drop pod. I've got a lot of other things that my opponent needs to worry that serve the same purpouse as multiple dreads. Because I'm fielding it aggressively (and true to all Killhammer philosophy - not concerned if it does die), the HK missiles usually aren't worth the points.

[Jackelope King]

I disagree with all of the above.

 

All of it.

 

I've never needed to field more than one in the Hunter role with launchers, melta-gun and heavy flamer, delivered by deathwind launcher equipped drop pod. I've got a lot of other things that my opponent needs to worry that serve the same purpouse as multiple dreads. Because I'm fielding it aggressively (and true to all Killhammer philosophy - not concerned if it does die), the HK missiles usually aren't worth the points.

My quibble here would be that you have an insanely expensive unit that will die the turn after it drops in. It will not live long enough to tie anything up in melee against... well... most competitive armies out there. Most Imperial armies will melta one lone Ironclad into smoldering wreckage in one turn. And the Ironclad, even with the Drop Pod rules, will have a hard time landing where it wants to against most competitive 5e armies that can set up skirmishers to block deep strikes.

 

I have used the configuration you mention very successfully against armies like Horde Orks, but those aren't really competitive armies.

 

By and large one-ofs fail because they lack redundancy. The Ironclad is no exception.