DIY Crusade

[Marshal Rohr]

So it has occurred to me in my long time absence from tearing apart DIY IAs that I have no personal background. None. I dont have a DIY Chapter or an Codex adherent official one (my Ultras were sold off). All I have is ~180 Templar Initiates/Sword Brethren, a handful of neophytes, and a fair bit or armor.

 

 

So I come here gentlemen (and the occasional lady/ies) to ask what should I do. How does one go about creating a Crusade. All the details about Chapter doctrine, beliefs, etc is done for me and all I really need to have is a place and TO&E, but I want my Crusade to be more than that and I just dont know how.

 

I look to you, veteran liberites and newcomers alike, help a brother out.

[Hrvat]

Well you could start by writing why your Crusade exists in other words what is their or where is their target. Than you could expand by fleshing out various dramatis persona of your crusade. Tell us why are they so cool to be leading a Crusade.

 

This should give you enough to work on for a week or two. Once that is settled you could expand on more exotic stuff.

 

 

Cheers

 

Hrvat

[Octavulg]

How does the Crusade get along with its fellow Black Templars? Why is it separate? What is its history? Does the Crusade have any quirks or foibles that it's picked up? Where does it draw its recruits from? What's the Marshal like?

[Lysimachus]

I guess the main thing in a nutshell is 'What makes it different from the rest of the BT?'. If it's not different, you might as well be reading IA:BT!

 

Ways to make it different? Pretty much what's been suggested; where they are, why they're there (particular enemies?), how being there has changed them (recruits, combat doctrine, attitude?), and important characters within the Crusade.

 

Also, it's worth thinking about how long the Crusade has existed, as obviously the longer they've been away, the more individual from the rest of the Chapter they are likely to be.

[Marshal Rohr]

Outline

-Traditions

-Recruitment

-Crusade Beliefs

-History

-Marshal

-Inter Chapter Relations

 

 

Sound like a firm basis?

[Dosjetka]

It does. :) Well, what have you already got for all of these points?

 

Ludovic

[Shinzaren]

What is your Crusade's end-game? How do they work with other Imperial Forces in the area? Why should I care more about this Crusade then any other. I think it's a cool idea, and I look forward to seeing more. The galaxy always needs more Black Templar Hatoraid.

[Octavulg]

Post #5

Outline

-Traditions

-Recruitment

-Crusade Beliefs

-History

-Marshal

-Inter Chapter Relations

 

I'd lean toward:

-History

-Beliefs and Traditions

-Recruitment

-Marshal

-Intra-Chapter Relations

 

Maybe. It depends a little on what you fill the categories with.

[Marshal Rohr]

I think I'm gonna go with what you put Octavulg.

 

The main idea is a Templar Crusade joins with an Imperial Army group to fight a massive force of Word Bearers and allies.

 

 

Ideas:

The use of the Aquila

Less isolationism but not touchy-feely

An unpopular marshal who holds the rank only through skill

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

Ignores codex-approved naval armament conventions

Believes in the astartes>mortals philosophy

Crusade's reclusiarch is ruthless beyond measure, drawing undo attention on the Crusade

Death worship and superstitious

Possible Dark Angel fallen (non chaos) infiltration (this one you will have to wait so I can explain in more detail)

[Ace Debonair]

Ideas:

The use of the Aquila

Less isolationism but not touchy-feely

An unpopular marshal who holds the rank only through skill

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

Ignores codex-approved naval armament conventions

Believes in the astartes>mortals philosophy

Crusade's reclusiarch is ruthless beyond measure, drawing undo attention on the Crusade

Death worship and superstitious

Possible Dark Angel fallen (non chaos) infiltration (this one you will have to wait so I can explain in more detail)

 

Solid, solid, solid, solid, curious, solid, solid, solid, and very interesting. :sweat:

 

Does that mean you'll just have a lot of extra guns on your battle-barges, or are you taking along ships not usually associated with Astartes?

I know, it's a minor detail. I'm just intrigued. :lol:

 

EDIT: Blasted typos, they get everywhere.

[Marshal Rohr]

Well, I just got back from dinner so Ill explain the more out there concepts.

 

 

A) Blatant violations of Codex approved naval vessel armaments

-The Crusade is supported by a Chapter barque (a vessel recently introduced in the Badab War vol 1). Basically a heavily armed mass conveyor like the IG troop ships or cargo haulers of the Mechanicus

-The barque is heavily augmented with all manner of high powered defensive weapons, because it holds the Crusades geneseed allotment and acts as a mobile base of operations for the Crusade. The weapons are all defensive, but clearly ignore the conventions placed on Space Marine vessels

-I do this so I can include a Chapter barque that could defend itself given the Templars incessant OpTempo. So it isnt an offensive craft and wouldn't EVER be used as a ship of the line, but it can defend itself from even capital class vessels for a short time, so if it is ambushed (hint, hint) the fleet could have the time needed to make it back to the vessel to drive off the attackers. Most conveyers are described as being gigantic (nearly 10Kms) while the heftiest battlebarge is 5 IIRC.

 

Also

-The Crusade Flagship is a venerable battle barge constructed from a retrofitted battleship of the IF Legion and still contains a few non-codex weapons (lances and maybe a single nova cannon, but I think the Nova is OTT)

-The Crusade Fleet is rather large, 1 Capital Class, 2 Cruises, and about 20 attendent vessels including 3 training ships, scout-vessels, and a single forgeship. The forge ship and training ships will likely be folded into the description of what the Chapter barque does, given its size.

 

 

For the Fallen infiltration, a handful of Fallen Angels (~15-20) discover they have been found by a successor Chapter of the Dark Angels. They had been on a world that was fought over during the course of the Imperial Crusade/War of Faith that the Templars are participating in and formulate a plan to be absorbed into the Templar ranks to avoid capture.

 

problems with this:

-how can they act like Black Templars without being Black Templars?

-how can they infiltrate the Crusade effectively?

-how do you have members of the Fallen be loyal to the Emperor and not El'Johnson without becoming Astelan clones.

-what impact would it have on the Crusade besides being something cool, which leads me to my next point......

 

 

Im considering not including anything about them in the Crusade description, instead using a single post in my blog that will be attached to the article to drop subtle hints at their true nature. There has been models I have made that include subtle Dark Angel Legion iconography that represent them, but I doubt I will do anything more at hint to the possibility of them being Dark Angels, and then include a spoiler article telling exactly what they are.

[Shinzaren]

The use of the Aquila

Coolio.

 

Less isolationism but not touchy-feely

Play nice with others, but don't bring them home? Perhaps swearing alliances with another chapter or fighting force at the end of the Crusade?

 

An unpopular marshal who holds the rank only through skill

This I have a slight issue with. Black Templars don't seem to be the question command type at all, and for Space Marines, a warrior's skill is paramount. I feel like the BT battle brothers wouldn't have any feelings as to the popularity of him, as long they could kill aliens and witches, and he didn't commit grievous tactical blunders. This could just be me though, as I don't know the whole mentality of Marines, and BT in general.

 

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

1,000 battle brothers is a big crusade. Maybe not to the BT, but to the Imperium at large, and would give the HLoT, and Inquisitors a base point to the size of the BT. If one off shoot Crusade is 1000 men, how large must the whole Chapter be?

 

Ignores codex-approved naval armament conventions

This is sweet, and that is referring to the general idea, and the specifics outlined in your second post, I like it. Definitely unique.

 

Believes in the astartes>mortals philosophy

That's not a philosophy, that is an iron clad fact. Astartes are greater than mortal men. Perhaps clarify that they think Astartes are elevated far above, and the common man is relatively worthless by comparison? Or something. I dunno how to word it either.

 

Crusade's reclusiarch is ruthless beyond measure, drawing undo attention on the Crusade

Yikes. That's a scary thought, overtly ruthless by the Black Templar standard. Not a guy I'd wanna meet in a dark alley while blaspheming.

 

Death worship and superstitious

Beliefs like this don't just happen though, and they were BT before this crusade started. What happened to make them this way, and why aren't the rest of the BT like this?

 

Possible Dark Angel fallen (non chaos) infiltration (this one you will have to wait so I can explain in more detail)

Looking over your more detailed explanation of this, I find it might be difficult. It's not like they can just hack into the proper vox channel, or display the proper heraldry. Even if they figured these things out, what's to stop the overly zealous Reclusiarch from asking a basic BT history question? Without the BT specific hypnotic learning, I feel like infiltration would be damn difficult. Not impossible, but hard. And it raises the question of why. What does it add to IA, and why does it matter to the Crusade? Is it a central plot point? Or an afterthought?

 

All in all, I like the ideas presented here a whole lot, especially the Naval Ordinance violations. Looking forward to more on these guys.

[Octavulg]

The use of the Aquila

 

Last I checked, everyone used this...

 

An unpopular marshal who holds the rank only through skill

 

Interesting enough.

 

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

 

I think you might, ironically, have more opportunity for interestingness as a smaller group. Smaller groups are more vulnerable, and suffer more risks.

 

Believes in the astartes>mortals philosophy

 

How so?

 

Crusade's reclusiarch is ruthless beyond measure, drawing undo attention on the Crusade

 

Interesting.

 

Death worship and superstitious

 

Very interesting. Be careful to make this a natural progression.

 

Possible Dark Angel fallen (non chaos) infiltration (this one you will have to wait so I can explain in more detail)

 

As the self-proclaimed expert on sneaking the Fallen into your Chapter, I remind you to be cautious with this.

 

For the Fallen infiltration, a handful of Fallen Angels (~15-20) discover they have been found by a successor Chapter of the Dark Angels. They had been on a world that was fought over during the course of the Imperial Crusade/War of Faith that the Templars are participating in and formulate a plan to be absorbed into the Templar ranks to avoid capture.

 

15-20 is a lot. The DA's most successful Interrogator-Chaplain has redeemed a grand total of 14 in his entire career.

 

-how can they act like Black Templars without being Black Templars?

 

A more simple option - don't pretend to be Templars. Pretend to be a detachment from another Chapter, volunteering to help out.

 

-how can they infiltrate the Crusade effectively?

 

Don't. Work alongside it. Riskier, but you don't have to hide yourselves from the Templars.

 

-how do you have members of the Fallen be loyal to the Emperor and not El'Johnson without becoming Astelan clones.

 

...

 

I'll have you know that my Fallen were thought up before anyone even mentioned the name Astellan.

 

Seriously, go read the Ice Lords again. Then they can be Taramant-clones instead. ;)

 

-what impact would it have on the Crusade besides being something cool, which leads me to my next point......

 

I'm not really sure.

 

Im considering not including anything about them in the Crusade description, instead using a single post in my blog that will be attached to the article to drop subtle hints at their true nature. There has been models I have made that include subtle Dark Angel Legion iconography that represent them, but I doubt I will do anything more at hint to the possibility of them being Dark Angels, and then include a spoiler article telling exactly what they are.

 

Sidebars, dude! Sidebars! Sidebars are perfect for this sort of thing.

[Marshal Rohr]

Less isolationism but not touchy-feely

Play nice with others, but don't bring them home? Perhaps swearing alliances with another chapter or fighting force at the end of the Crusade?

 

I dont know about alliances, but I was thinking along the lines of the Templars petitioning to join the Crusade not being petitioned, and the Marshal to actively participate in the war councils, instead of operating outside of the Imperial Chain of Command.

 

An unpopular marshal who holds the rank only through skill

This I have a slight issue with. Black Templars don't seem to be the question command type at all, and for Space Marines, a warrior's skill is paramount. I feel like the BT battle brothers wouldn't have any feelings as to the popularity of him, as long they could kill aliens and witches, and he didn't commit grievous tactical blunders. This could just be me though, as I don't know the whole mentality of Marines, and BT in general.

 

Its not his social skills that makes him unpopular but his personal beliefs and previous actions. I want him to be 'average' if you will, but his brutality and viciousness have carried him so far. Given the High Marshal will never have even met him he would be affirmed based on the results of the election tournament and not personal experience. He is going to be morbid and fatalistic, and his tactics are vicious. Not ruthless but vicious. The brutality of his actions sometimes goes over the line and is viewed unfavorably by his peer marshals. These fans are flamed by the Reclusiarch.

 

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

1,000 battle brothers is a big crusade. Maybe not to the BT, but to the Imperium at large, and would give the HLoT, and Inquisitors a base point to the size of the BT. If one off shoot Crusade is 1000 men, how large must the whole Chapter be?

 

It will be at a time of great need, and the troops will be spread across the fleet and AO so there will be little to no chance of the fores being detected.

 

Believes in the astartes>mortals philosophy

That's not a philosophy, that is an iron clad fact. Astartes are greater than mortal men. Perhaps clarify that they think Astartes are elevated far above, and the common man is relatively worthless by comparison? Or something. I dunno how to word it either.

 

They believe the Emperor created the Astartes to be posthuman and above them as in the inheritors of the Emperors vision and ideas for a human galaxy.

 

Death worship and superstitious

Beliefs like this don't just happen though, and they were BT before this crusade started. What happened to make them this way, and why aren't the rest of the BT like this?

 

Death worship is too far, I agree, but morbidity will be a big part of the vision.

 

Possible Dark Angel fallen (non chaos) infiltration (this one you will have to wait so I can explain in more detail)

Looking over your more detailed explanation of this, I find it might be difficult. It's not like they can just hack into the proper vox channel, or display the proper heraldry. Even if they figured these things out, what's to stop the overly zealous Reclusiarch from asking a basic BT history question? Without the BT specific hypnotic learning, I feel like infiltration would be damn difficult. Not impossible, but hard. And it raises the question of why. What does it add to IA, and why does it matter to the Crusade? Is it a central plot point? Or an afterthought?

 

All in all, I like the ideas presented here a whole lot, especially the Naval Ordinance violations. Looking forward to more on these guys.

 

Truth is, it doesn't but I want it to be one of those things that I figure out how to incorporate.

[Leonaides]

you do realise that your beliefs section is almost exactly the same as the original traitor legions dont you? Astartes above humans, tends to lead to astartes with human slaves... Also- all marshals are personally appointed by the high marshal, if he doesnt know them, and hasn't had them tested for suitability then he wont be appointing them. But lookin interesting so far. I'll be looking back every now and then for more.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

It will be at a time of great need, and the troops will be spread across the fleet and AO so there will be little to no chance of the fores being detected.

 

And when the time of great crisis is over, those that have the job of collating and organising the records of the conflict may well come across a lot of anomolies. Yes it may take a few centuries or even a milennia to come back to them, but it may well end up biting them in the arse as it were eventually.

 

Do they actively mask their troop movements or are they just relying on the general ineptness and needlessly byzantine beaurocracy used by the Imperium?

[Ace Debonair]

Its not his social skills that makes him unpopular but his personal beliefs and previous actions. I want him to be 'average' if you will, but his brutality and viciousness have carried him so far. Given the High Marshal will never have even met him he would be affirmed based on the results of the election tournament and not personal experience. He is going to be morbid and fatalistic, and his tactics are vicious. Not ruthless but vicious. The brutality of his actions sometimes goes over the line and is viewed unfavorably by his peer marshals. These fans are flamed by the Reclusiarch.

:D

I think you mean 'the flames are fanned by the Reclusiarchy', although given the Templar's track record on purging things, I'm no longer sure. :)

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

1,000 battle brothers is a big crusade. Maybe not to the BT, but to the Imperium at large, and would give the HLoT, and Inquisitors a base point to the size of the BT. If one off shoot Crusade is 1000 men, how large must the whole Chapter be?

 

It will be at a time of great need, and the troops will be spread across the fleet and AO so there will be little to no chance of the fores being detected.

 

Could I sugggest that it's only rumoured to be that size, and nobody outside the crusade actually knows for sure?

 

Even then, I'd probably recommend cutting it down to 7~800 marines, unless you plan on modelling the whole lot. ^_^

 

The stuff with the ships sounds pretty cool, although I daresay they'll try and have a tough time keping the offending articles out of inquisitor vision if the crusade is drawing undue attention.

That said, that could make for some great tension and stuff - perhaps even an inquisitor choosing to 'not see' the ship because it'll be so much hassle and possibly a war if he makes a comment on it. :P

[Marshal Rohr]

you do realise that your beliefs section is almost exactly the same as the original traitor legions dont you? Astartes above humans, tends to lead to astartes with human slaves... Also- all marshals are personally appointed by the high marshal, if he doesnt know them, and hasn't had them tested for suitability then he wont be appointing them. But lookin interesting so far. I'll be looking back every now and then for more.

 

Humans should serve the Astartes, and as long as they do their job well they will be rewarded. The Chapter Serfs of the Crusade Fleet will enjoy lives of purpose and conviction with their families on board the vessels and as long as their work is done correctly and when it was asked of them they fear no retribution.

 

It is when regular humans feel that just because the Astartes are enhanced and elevated doesnt give them more 'power' beyond physical ones.

 

If a Crusade is operating in the Ultima Segmentum and the High Marshal is on Armageddon, there is no way he can personally meet the marshal if they hadnt served together before. The Chapter is 6000 strong and spread all across the Imperium, there are going to be Templars who have never even SEEN the Eternal Crusader or the High Marshal.

 

It will be at a time of great need, and the troops will be spread across the fleet and AO so there will be little to no chance of the fores being detected.

 

And when the time of great crisis is over, those that have the job of collating and organising the records of the conflict may well come across a lot of anomolies. Yes it may take a few centuries or even a milennia to come back to them, but it may well end up biting them in the arse as it were eventually.

 

The Templars wouldnt send a TO&E to IHC for every engagement, they would just fight in a battle and move on to the next. But yes, the true numbers will be masked by holding several companies on board the ships at all times as a hard hitting reserve (a tactic employed by the Marshal to prevent massive Word Bearer breakthroughs).

 

Do they actively mask their troop movements or are they just relying on the general ineptness and needlessly byzantine beaurocracy used by the Imperium?

 

It isnt even an issue for them, the fact the Crusade will take place somewhere close to the Eye/Maelstrom and the fact the Imperium will need a hard hitting core of highly motivated Astartes with a 'shock trooper' style of warfare and the massive size of any Crusade force will mask their numbers better than any hiding.

 

 

Near Codex Chapter strength (set in the past so it doesnt step on any toes)

1,000 battle brothers is a big crusade. Maybe not to the BT, but to the Imperium at large, and would give the HLoT, and Inquisitors a base point to the size of the BT. If one off shoot Crusade is 1000 men, how large must the whole Chapter be?

 

The Inquisition and upper echelons of the Imperium would have no idea if it is the whole Chapter. They would see roughly 850-900 marines and assume the whole Chapter was committed to the engagement. Unless they had specific knowledge of multiple Crusade with similar numbers simultaneously on going they have no evidence and no reason to be upset. We are doing the Emperors work and we arnt making waves like the Astral Claws.

 

It will be at a time of great need, and the troops will be spread across the fleet and AO so there will be little to no chance of the fores being detected.

 

Could I sugggest that it's only rumoured to be that size, and nobody outside the crusade actually knows for sure?

 

I am going to make a TO&E, but no where else will the number ever be directly specified to indicate that only the marshal has a clue how many are there. I need the numbers to justify the fleet, and the fleet is my main focus.

 

Even then, I'd probably recommend cutting it down to 7~800 marines, unless you plan on modelling the whole lot. ^_^

 

One Fighting Company will be entirely modelled as will the Marshal's Household. The total will end up being < 900 total bodies, but that is still for all intents and purposes 'chapter' strength.

 

The stuff with the ships sounds pretty cool, although I daresay they'll try and have a tough time keping the offending articles out of inquisitor vision if the crusade is drawing undue attention.

That said, that could make for some great tension and stuff - perhaps even an inquisitor choosing to 'not see' the ship because it'll be so much hassle and possibly a war if he makes a comment on it. :lol:

 

The Inquisitor overseeing the prosecution of the Crusade will be something rarely seen here: a pro-Astartes Ordo Malleus Inquisitor. So any discrepancies in the Templars armaments and size will be hand waved by his loyalties. The Inquisitor and his 'partner', a moderate Hereticus Inquisitor, will be covered at a later time (ie after Grey Knights and SoB come out).

[Shinzaren]

So Ordo Malleus... Gonna fight demons then? Otherwise Malleus wouldn't be involved, Hereticus yes. I think Hereticus Inquisitors are great and don't get used enough. I also think they would be an extremely good addition to a very intolerant and gung-ho Crusade, and would have a good dynamic with the Fiery Reclusiarch.

 

Secondly, why would Malleus and Hereticus team up? Is one heretic running around dissolving the Faith and summoning daemons? If so, may I make the suggestion that the Inquisitors aren't partners, but rather Rivals? They share a common goal, but each wants this guy for their own reasons, and wants to take him back to his own Ordo for interrogation?

[Marshal Rohr]

Well, the 'guy' in question is Kor Phaeron. He has spilled out of the Maelstrom/Eye to attempt to build a small, heavily fortified domain in the material realm from which to strike out against the Imperium. Its the precursor to an even bigger Black Crusade/threat. The Malleus would be there because of the Daemonic Legions he has brought with him and the Hereticus would be there to stop the spread of heresy and corruption that follows in the wake of a Chaos invasion. I thought having them be 'rivals' would be too cliche, and instead went for allies, but the Hereticus Inq. doesnt share the Malleus inquisitors pro-astartes favoritism.

 

The Daemonhunter would view the Space Marines as being able to handle the soul-melting horror of chaos and as such suitable weapons against it. The Hereticus Inquisitor has inducted highly trained IG regiments to be his personal army against his rebel and heretic enemies.