How strict is WYSIWYG in tourney play ?

[Kurb]

I like doing some variations in how I make my Blood Angels.

In my assault squads I throw in a couple dual-chainsword or dual-boltpistol marines for flavor; even have a beaky with just a metal ax.

 

I have been coming up with some idea's on making the most out of some of my left over bits.

 

For instance, I have like 4 hand flamers laying around, and if memory serves me correctly 2 for each hand.

Could one have a marine with dual hand flamers and that model count as having a regular flamer ?

 

Furthermore, I have a GreyKnight model I was thinking about coverting into a count-as Sanguinor. Would this be legal in competitive play ?

 

How much creativity is too much creativity? :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Basically you are going to run into problems when:

 

A ) Modeling for a gaming advantage

 

B ) People cannot recognize what you are fielding

 

0b :)

[SamaNagol]

When models cannot have other equipment, or makes no difference to the rules such as: 2 bolt pistols, 2 chainswords. It is fine.

 

However if you have models with equipment which is available to them, but is different to what it says on your army list you could come into problems. Why are 2 hand flamers a flamer, but 2 bolt pistols arent a bolter?

 

It's better to be safe than sorry. And you shouldn't waste your special weapons anyway. Save them for a future project in your bits box.

 

Counts as Sanguinor would be a bit of a stretch if it looks nothing like him.

[jbarket]

It's going to depend on the tournament. I've heard of tournaments that award additional points, similar to paint points, for WYSIWYG, but that doesn't happen around here. I played in a 1500pt tournament not long ago where at best half of my marines had arms at all. It definitely isn't a big deal.

 

But I have to echo what was said above about not trying to get too into defining rules for these guys. It's easy to say 'the guy who looks different is the special weapon guy', but if the whole unit is made up of these kind of untraditional guys, it can be confusing for you and your opponent. That's really all you want to avoid. If we exchange lists, you say 'This guy is the flamer guy' and I easily recognize him, I'm not going to question you even if the guy is actually a freaking Ork. But if it's confusing, I'm going to have to keep asking, and it's going to make it significantly more likely that either of us will make a mistake.

 

So, just make it obvious to everybody. Even if you just put a red dot on the rim of the base. Once you've done that, they're your troops. Have fun building them however the hell you want.

 

As far as the counts-as guys go, just make sure the bases are the same size. You might build up his base with rocks or something to make him a similar height. That's all that really matters. If LOS and targeting for templates are the same, it doesn't matter if he's a Sanguinor or a muppet.

[shatter]

err...

 

Really depends on the tourney. For some, including the organizers, it's serious business.

 

I've seen a player get DQ'ed for playing a chaos list but not having a mark on a prince. In this case it's a tiny paint job. He DS near it while using the rule as if it was, it was in his list, and he'd paid for it... was pointed out to the TOs... DQ-ed.

 

I know... as I said, serious business for some.

 

Considering this extreme, if you don't know the Tournament Organizers, and their level of zeal, be sensible and work from the premise that having extra bits that are meaningless rules wise, ie 2 chainswords and a boltpistol on the belt, you're good. 2 bps... okay-ish... (whaddyatryinado?? twinlink'em??!?) 2 handflamers = flamer? I wouldn't consider it for a moment.

 

If you've bought special pistols for guys that have something holstered model-wise, seriously consider making it clear on the model that it's not a mere bolt-pistol. I've not seen but have heard of someone getting in teh poo for what looks like a bp actually list-wise being a plasma pistol on his chaos sorcerer. Same with melta bombs. Get them on.

[Whitefireinferno]

With me if something has a flamer it has a Fricken flamer or some sort of Flamer type thing and a plasma pistol is a plasma pistol ect it just makes the game work better instead of me having to ask every 5 min which one is what because I do not want to memerize your list. Well in any sort of tourney Im like that in a casual game Im not as uptight hell My Sanguinor(is) is on a 40 mm base and I just TELL my opponent I measure 5 inches instead of 6 and I lose a small bit so no advantage Oh and he is like twice the size and he is not in my Tourney lists or anything.

[JamesI]

shatter has it right. Some places are horrid for WYSIWYG, while others are reasonable. I would have no problem with dual chainsword/duel bolt pistol marines and neither would most people I've met.

[Wildfire]

Exactly right. Check with the tourney organizers. But the biggest thing is to be clear and consistent. Make sure your army uses the same variations across all the models, and explain everything that might be confusing before the battle (and be sure your opponent is paying attention). Most people are fine with a little creativity in modeling.

 

If you want your grey sword with gold tint to be a glaive encarmine, and a grey sword with a blue tint to be a power sword, that's going to be confusing. Don't do it.

 

On the other hand, I hate power fists (think they look and sound stupid). I use axes to represent power fists, and swords to represent power weapons. I make sure everyone knows this when I sit down to play, and I've never had anyone object.

[Zealadin]

Some other army has dual hand flamers = a normal flamer so its not exactly that 'out there'. But as others have said if its confusing try and avoid it.

 

Consistency is definately always best since it makes it easier for your opponent and there will be less issues in the long run.

If everything is fairly represented on the model you shouldn't have issues.

[Kurb]

Thanks for the reply's brothers.

I can understand the where 2 handflamers would cause problems, especially if I actually wanted to use a single hand flamer guy with the standard hand flamer rules and then another model with 2 HF'ers .....etc etc.

 

I will keep it simple, 2x chainswords and an occasional 2x BP's :P

[GlauG]

Sisters of Battle Seraphim use two hand flamers as one HF for shooting, but also get an extra attack in CC for it, for what that's worth.