How to deal with terminators?

[Tyron]

Hello,

 

I did a search and came up with nothing.

 

I normally play marine armies at my local, one consists of shrike and 10 terminators and the other 2 land raiders, one filled with terminators.

 

I know we have TWC with ss and thunder hammers but you can only field 3 and that’s if you use all 3 FA slots, same with the elite choice lone wolves.

 

I’m worried about sending in a tooled up grey hunter squad because the saves are easy to make and the WG with the power fist can only do so many wounds.

 

I know you can pop the tank with lascannons/melta but I’m on about in combat against hammernators mostly. My army at the moment have no TWC or LW.

 

Thanks in advance!

[CainTheHunter]

A unit of 7-10 PA WG in LRC or Drop pod with power weapons and combiplasma/pistols? It's either lots of plasma rapid-fire shots on the turn they drop and "now You come here and charge us if You dare AND there's left something alive of that unit" + we will counterattack YOU with 30 power weapon attacks, or "now we get out of LRC, shoot the plasma pistols and then charge You with 40 power weapons attacks". And we both know, You just CAN'T MAKE THAT MUCH SAVES.

[DV8]

Hit them with Murderous Hurricane, and saturate them with as much firepower as possible. Next turn, they'll have to make two dangerous terrain checks (one for movement, one for charging), and when they reach you in combat, you strike first. The key is to ensure the unit is as small as possible when they hit you, and you just want to mop up in combat. Unfortunately, there's no sure-fire way to deal with TH&SS Terminators (of any variety) in combat. They are one of the most frightening units in the game.

 

 

DV8

[LPetersson]

You can kill them with either The Law of Averages™ or special weapons.

 

The Law of Averages™ basically says that if you get them to roll enough saves they go down.

10 Grey Hunters rapid firing should net you 2 or more dead termies. That might not sound like much, but I find that In Real Life™ results are better then mathhammer makes it out to be. But maybe that's just my loaded dice ;)

 

The other option is special weapons which tend to come in two options:

1) Suicide Squads (Logan + LF with Meltas + droppod, single TWM charging ahead of everyone else, single droppod behind enemy lines with no backup)

2) Tactical Squads (Grey Hunters + Wolf Guard, Squads of Wolf Guard with plasma and power weapons/Frost blades and so on)

 

I don't like suicide squads myself, but drop a squad of WGs with combi-plasmas next to a squad of termies and watch them die. TH/SS combos or not.

10 WG rapidfiring PGs = 11 wounds = 4+ dead TH/SS termies or 7+ dead normal termies...

 

Personally I'd much rather put some Wolfguards in a rhino or landraider, give them combi-meltas + power weapons and some frost blades. Have them blow up the landraider and see how your opponent likes them apples :D

Or Wolf Guard bikers... Hideously expensive, but oh, so much fun...

 

Land raiders are getting you down? Bring on some long fangs. Personally I like the look on my opponents face when the 15 MLs he dismissed earlier takes down his land raider. Cheap and very very effective. Need some lascannons? Get some razorbacks for the LFs to back them up.

 

Your choices are many and varied depending on how they fit in with your army, your opponents army and your terrain...

Post your list, and theirs if you can,...

[SJumppanen]

Just recently i faced an army that had group of 10 terminators with 2 cyclone launchers (normal vanilla marines). How i finaly dealt with them was by massing a Rune Priest, Swift Claw pack (2 meltas left) and pair of GH troops (8+1) (pair of meltas here also) in Rhinos on them. Shooting (with JotWW) took out half of them and rest died in CC. I'm not sure if that was somehow average result, but should give you some info. In addition you might wish to consider having GH troops with pair of plasma guns with you.

[Tyron]

CainTheHunter

The problem with WG and LR they cost too much, and I try to not have all my eggs in one basket when I make an army. Though what you suggest is very good.

 

DV8

Sadly my RP has LL and TW who sits in a rhino with 5 grey hunters near/on the home objective. I try to shoot at them with my stuff but he has a lot of armour 13 tanks which takes a few turns to down.

LPettersson

 

Pretty much the same as DV8, I think I just have really bad luck with my dice, I have played the guy with the LR 3-4 times and have never popped a LR with a meltagun my dice are really bad, always 1-2 to hit 

 

My list is the following:

 

Rune Priest

living lightning, tempest wrath, chooser

 

3 Wolf Guard (fist goes with the 10 man GH, the other 2 go with scouts and RP)

3 combi meltas, power fist

 

5 Wolf Scouts

melta gun

 

Lone Wolf 85 (I tried him for this game and I passed 4 3++ saves, did 3 hits and no glance/pen against his dread, thats how ;) my dice are).

terminator armour, chain fist, storm shield

 

5 Grey Hunters

melta gun,

Razorback

 

5 Grey Hunters

melta gun,

Razorback

 

5 Grey Hunters

melta gun,

Razorback

 

9 Grey Hunters

melta gun, banner, motw

Rhino

 

Land Speeder Typhoon

 

Land Speeder Typhoon

 

6 Long Fangs

5 missile launchers

Razorback

twin linked plasma gun, lascannon

 

6 Long Fangs

5 missile launchers

Razorback

twin linked plasma gun, lascannon

 

6 Long Fangs

5 missile launchers

Razorback

twin linked plasma gun, lascannon

 

Blood Angels list is:

 

Chaplin

5 Terminators – 2 th&ss

Redeemer

 

10 Assault Marines

Standard LR

 

10 Assault Marines

 

2 Vindicaots

 

Pred with 2 las, auto

 

Furioso

 

= 1750

 

Shrike list:

 

Shrike

 

10 Terminators

 

6 Scouts

 

2x10 Tacticals

 

7 Assault Marines

 

=1500

 

Against the Shrike list is a bit harder as I have to drop the stronos razors making it harder to kill his terminators as he just hides the tactical in cover and passes all his saves for the terminators.

[Iacton Qruze]

Pop the transport, tarpit them with murderous hurricane, saturate with lots of wounds. AP isn't a big deal, with the 3+ invul, so just go for bolters, frag missiles, whatever you have in small arms fire. If you have a second Runepriest, drop a jaws on him for the extra possible kills.

 

How much are you getting out of your TW? I've used it quite a bit, only to find that it's too situational to really rely on, whereas the MH allows me to target a unit and guarantee that it gets bogged down. closer range, but it usually works out.

 

rinse and repeat, but keep in mind the key is the hurricane, to keep him slow and out of your hair, that way if he doesn't die out in one go, you don't feel compelled to spend your entire army's shooting on one unit, which is probably what he's counting on you to do.

[CainTheHunter]

Tyron

 

Then drop-pod them. But then You must make sure that You pop that transport with termies before, so the WG don't remain stranded, cause if the enemy terminators are in LR, then with plasma You are pretty much screwed. Generally 7 WG with power weapons and plasmapistols/combiplasma should eat even TH/SS terminators 4 times out of 5 - that's the law of averages, which was mentioned before.

[Max_Dammit]

Drowning them in wolves, they can only kill so many in CC and some wounds will go trough how many wolves can you field cost for cost.

[LPetersson]

Hmmm, looking at your list I would suggest a few things:

Ditch PG/LC on the RBs and get TL-LCs instead. You'll hit with the LCs far easier so you can whittle the termies down at range.

 

I would merge two of the GH squads get rid of the rhino and put TL-LCs on the RBs there as well.

 

With that many MLs, I'd recomment either scrapping the Land Speeders or making them MM/MM so they can bust some of the enemy armour.

 

Also, with that many LFs I would play the waiting game and let him come to me. That way you also don't have to worry about moving the squads so you might as well try to beef them up 10 and give them Plasma Guns.

 

I'll see if I can find my 'ML Spam' list that was/is basically my 'I Win' list...

[LPetersson]

I must have deleted the list :-o

It was basically something along these lines:

3 squads of 6xLF-5xML

2-3 RBs with TL-LC

3 squads of GH with Plasma Guns

2 squads 3xSwift Claws with WGPLs

1x Rune Priest

1-2 Lone Wolves

 

I'm at work, so I can't really work out points but that was about it. Guaranteed win for me everytime I used the list. Boring as hell too, but there ya go...

[Godhead]

I've only liked TW when my runepriest had to ride around in the LR. If he's out and about or in a rhino, i prefer something with a more direct effect. I LOVE MH. It works against so many armies.

 

IMO the best way to deal with TH/SS termies is to shoot them. They are too resilient and lethal to get into a brawl with even with your big stick unit. Try to just pour as much small arm fire into them as possible.

 

Drag them down with weight of numbers.

[Grey Mage]

Hit them with Murderous Hurricane, and saturate them with as much firepower as possible. Next turn, they'll have to make two dangerous terrain checks (one for movement, one for charging), and when they reach you in combat, you strike first. The key is to ensure the unit is as small as possible when they hit you, and you just want to mop up in combat. Unfortunately, there's no sure-fire way to deal with TH&SS Terminators (of any variety) in combat. They are one of the most frightening units in the game.

 

 

DV8

How GM Kills TH+SS TDA in CC.

 

Hit them with Bloodclaws and a Wolf Priest. 56 Rerolling attacks on the charge at I4, 3 PF attacks, 4 PW attacks, and plenty of ablative wounds to absorb the damage they do.

 

Sure, bloodclaws dont get a save against them, but theyll get their attacks in- and 5 TH+SS guys will on average kill 4 bloodclaws. Thats 60pts. If you kill three of them in return *wich is quite likely, and I often get more* youve made up your effort spent and easily justified your losses.

 

The next round, you finish off the last one or two before they strike, and in your turn you move onto better targets.

 

Hrmm... for the Mathhammer junkies- 56 attacks is 42 hits, 21 wounds, and 3.5 failed saves. 3 PF attacks is more likely than not 2 hits, 2 wounds, and another .65 of a wound, and 4 PW attacks is just under 2 wounds, for another .65 failed saves- giving us a likely 4 dead TH+SS TDA, with a good chance at the fifth going *poof*.

 

If theyve got lightning claws in their *wich most smart opponents will* the losses are greater, more like six BCs, but still not enough to destroy their combat- effectiveness, and wound allocation shinanigens are minimal.

[Greyhunter77]

My club is very Marine heavy at the moment so face off against other termies a lot. Tried going toe-to-toe with them, but i have bad luck with dice and found the best tactic was to use saturation fire of my Blood Claws. The shear number of shots i can bring to bear is usually enough to thin the numbers.

 

Also found an interesting tactic with Lucas (Apologies if this has been suggested on here before as i've been away a while) charge him into combat and then use a Vindicare assasin to kill him when he is low on wounds. The statis grenade gives you a good chance of taking a few enemies with him. I've used the tactic six times so far and on average have taken 3 more powerful models with him each time including once a daemon prince

[DV8]

My club is very Marine heavy at the moment so face off against other termies a lot. Tried going toe-to-toe with them, but i have bad luck with dice and found the best tactic was to use saturation fire of my Blood Claws. The shear number of shots i can bring to bear is usually enough to thin the numbers.

 

Also found an interesting tactic with Lucas (Apologies if this has been suggested on here before as i've been away a while) charge him into combat and then use a Vindicare assasin to kill him when he is low on wounds. The statis grenade gives you a good chance of taking a few enemies with him. I've used the tactic six times so far and on average have taken 3 more powerful models with him each time including once a daemon prince

 

Far too expensive for what you want to do:

 

140 points on Lucas?

120 points on Vindicare Assassin

50-70 points plus henchmen and gear on Inquisitor Lord?

 

Remember that you have to take an Inquisitor Lord to take an Assassin in your army (you're only allowed 1 allied HQ, 1 allied Elite, and you HAVE to have an Inquisitor to field an Assassin.

 

I'm sure there are more cost-effective ways to "deal with" the big baddies in the game.

 

Grey Mage and I have pretty much the same mentality. In 40k you either shoot for quality, or shoot for quantity. Unfortunately the quality of Terminators is SO good that throwing your own "quality" at them will not do enough damage to cripple/destroy them. The key then is to drown then in so much quantity that their quality simply falls apart.

 

 

*EDIT* And let me continue this line of thought by saying that the Vindicare is BY FAR one of the weakest assassins in the game, second only to the Culexus. He hits on 2+, wounds on a 4+, means in an AVERAGE game he'll hit 5 times, wound 2-3 times, and with cover, probably kill 1 to 2 models (though that would make an interesting rules debate...because the Vindicare can selectively target a specific model, do you determine if the target gets a cover save based on the unit position, or for that single model?). With his special rounds, he can kill one model on a 2+ (which you'll probably save for Lucas since you want him to die), he can punch through an invulnerable save (still only wounds on a 4+), or inflict 3D6 armor penetration. Since his rifle (as far as I remember) has no strength value, he'll only average 10.5/11, making him completely inefficient as an alpha strike against armor.

 

 

DV8

[d@n]

take out the landraider quickly, so thay have to foot slog it and then avoid them.

.

[Thunderhawk3015]

Killing Land Raiders is easier said than done. Really the only "reliable" way to kill one is smack it with a meltagun, and even then there needs to be some hot dice rolling, and there is that whole 6 inch thing, which against a redeemer, in this case, is not the best idea. Better to work on luring the terminators out of their transport, and killing anything that isn't in one first.

[Baluc]

Why not use your own terminators? Frost blade(or wolf claw), combi meltas, and counter-attack would do the job don't you think? Even power armoured Wolf Gaurd can take that kit. Drop pod/Rhino for power armour Drop pod for Terminators.

[d@n]

Killing Land Raiders is easier said than done. Really the only "reliable" way to kill one is smack it with a meltagun, and even then there needs to be some hot dice rolling, and there is that whole 6 inch thing, which against a redeemer, in this case, is not the best idea. Better to work on luring the terminators out of their transport, and killing anything that isn't in one first.

that is true ( and why i love wolf scouts ) but its normally a good idea to try and kill a land raider as soon as possible.

[DV8]

Depending on how the Land Raider is built (side sponsons forward or backwards), a neat trick you can try is to drop RIGHT in front of the Land Raider with a Pod, and hope you don't scatter too far, so that with the disembarkation move you end up covering the front, left and right access points (enough that they can't deploy the entire squad in coherency, and within 2" of the hatches and of each other).

 

Force an emergency disembarkation and they are immediately pinned for the following turn, leaving you enough time to kill the rest of the army before dealing with the Terminators, or to land a killing blow the next turn on said Terminators before dealing with the rest of the army. Your opponent's alternative would be to deploy what models he can within 2" of an access hatch, in coherency, and treat any models he can't deploy as destroyed. Either way it's win-win for you.

 

10 Grey Hunters: 190 pts

- 2 Meltaguns, Drop Pod

 

One of my staple units, always gets the job done.

 

 

DV8

[Prot]

DV8, that's a pretty standard squad for myself as well, but how are you keeping squad cohesion with a Drop Pod in the middle?

 

Also I'm not sure I understand how Emergency Disembarkation is resulting in a 'pinned' . I've always read it as the remainder of the turn....?

 

Otherwise for Termies I typically think melta is gold. I am guessing when Dark Eldar come out officially we're going to see less Termies, and less Landraiders anyway.

[Max_Dammit]

or the cheap trick of putting a cheap landspeeder in front of him, sure its going to die, but not before the landraider has to drive around it