Effective fighting strength

[Valkyrion]

Using the Tyranids and the 26th founding as an example;

The 26th was in 738.M41 and the Tyranids invaded 745.M41.

If a 26th founding chapter had been invaded by the Tyranids, would they have been able to fight them?

Would they be combat effective?

 

I've half an idea forming about a new founding chapter that was almost instantly invaded, but I need a bit of an idea on time to strength ratio.

[Ecritter]

7 years, I'd have to say no. It'd take longer then that just to set up the Monestary and start recruiting ... just my opinion of course.

 

Actually, after consideration ... I'd have to say the AdMech wouldn't even have the paperwork done in 7 years.

[Valkyrion]

Which begs the question - what does the training cadre and new chapter master, who has probably spent the last 200 years constantly fighting, do for a decade whilst his chapter gets set up?

 

Wait until you have 100 marines and then fight alongside your parent chapter?

[Eryx_UK]

Which begs the question - what does the training cadre and new chapter master, who has probably spent the last 200 years constantly fighting, do for a decade whilst his chapter gets set up?

 

Wait until you have 100 marines and then fight alongside your parent chapter?

 

I imagine he uses this time while his men train, to find a homeworld for the chapter monestary and recruitment.

[Valkyrion]

Okay, so would 25 years be a fair assessment for a combat ready chapter?

I think it was one of the first Index Astartes that said it takes 55 years to 'build' 1000 marines, excluding training.

So half of that is about 25 years to have 3-400 brothers and X amount of scouts?

[Eryx_UK]

Okay, so would 25 years be a fair assessment for a combat ready chapter?

I think it was one of the first Index Astartes that said it takes 55 years to 'build' 1000 marines, excluding training.

So half of that is about 25 years to have 3-400 brothers and X amount of scouts?

 

Sounds about right to me.

[Ecritter]

I'd say in 25 years you'd have at alot of Scouts ... but full fledged Space Marines, I just don't know.

 

Remember, the implantation of the geneseed takes years, then and only then do they become initiates and begin training to become Space Marines.

[Octavulg]

IIRC, it was 55 years for 1000 sets of organs.

 

30 years, roughly, to train a Scout.

 

Assuming the cadre can handle a full company, and that they then use that company to train another company while training an additional company, sixty years would see them with three operational companies. But since training can be on-the-job...

 

Call it seventy-five years.

[Leonaides]

Surely 10 years to train a scout? Where's GC when you need him... The final imlantation is th eblack carapace, which is generally when the scout becomes a full marine and is both elligible and able to wear Power Armour.

 

If you assume that each chapter is given a full set of 1000 organs at the start (rather than having to wait till the first batch of scouts have mature progenoids to harvest and only getting a new batch of scouts every 10 years), then maybe they start with a double scout company, to give them a good cadge of trained marines when they are ready to take on more scouts - remember if its a training cadre then each trainer is probably responsible for 9 or 10 scouts. 30 trainers equals 300 scouts in the first batch. But then you need other full marines in the training cadre to do other things - you'll need a librarian, at least 1 chaplain, Chapter Master, Techmarine or 3...

 

The you need to pick your fights fairly carefully to make sure you dont loose too many while they're still training up.

 

Back to the OP - 26th founding vs tyranids? Not the first wave of them, but they're probably just about ready for whats arriving now.

[Octavulg]

It may be less than thirty years.

 

But I'd still lean toward 75 years. Anything less feels too quick.

[Valkyrion]

Cheers again.

So assuming little in the way of casualties and a very steady rate of recruitment, a 26th founding chapter would be just about at full strength after 200 years, but at reasonable operating strength after about 100?

 

Next question then - which company comes first?

Codex SM says that a scout spends time as a devastator, then assault and then a tactical - so would they use a battle company organisation, or simply train the 1st 100 in devastator squads, then bump them to assault squads as the next batch are trained, and then bump again to tactical as the next batch after that?

So in effect you start with a 9th company and work up?

Or fill out a battle company and work back?

 

I'm probably thinking too much about the minutiae of things...but it interests me.

[Octavulg]

It depends, actually. See, the more Marines they have, the faster they can train. It grows exponentially.

[Ace Debonair]

So in effect you start with a 9th company and work up?

Or fill out a battle company and work back?

 

I'm probably thinking too much about the minutiae of things...but it interests me.

 

I'd imagine the precise workings vary from chapter to chapter. Some might tell Brother Steve that he's going to be a devastator, others might ask him what he wants to be when he grows up.

[Octavulg]

I ignore the new training progression. Not least because it doesn't seem very sensible or very efficient.

[Shinzaren]

The bigger question is: Does it matter? Once Nid's are involved, it takes a LOT of firepower to end the threat they pose. Even full strength chapters can't handle the might of the Hive Fleet. You might fight a lot of rear-guard and retreating actions, but without allies, you wouldn't last against a Nid invasion fleet, full strength or not. Secondly, the best way to deal with the Nids is in Space, and would a young chapter have both the fleet power, and the experience with that fleet to make a difference?