The simple Flamer

[minigun762]

I wanted to start a discussion on the various uses and tactics involved in this most basic of special weapons.

 

It has alot going for it, being either free or very cheap in most squads and its stats match that of the standard Bolter exactly to enhance the natural anti-infantry strength of the basic Marine. And thanks to the generous amounts of cover saves (both terrain or ability based) in the game, the ability to ignore cover is now more important.

 

The most obvioius drawback is that it competes with the Meltagun for special weapon slots and in the current meta-game, mech is king. We can get around this by taking anti-tank options in other slots, leaving our basic infantry to handle the little guys.

 

As a Chaos player, one of the squads I've been wanting to try out is a 5 man Chosen squad in a Rhino with 5 Flamers. Cheapish at 150 points but in theory its able to fry entire squads of hordies regardless of what kind of fancy forcefield or sporecloud they bring.

[ShinyRhino]

I use flamers quite a bit in various squads.

 

I don't always get a chance to fire the ones on my Tactical Squads, unfortunately. Tac squads have the unfortunate role of being largely reactive units. You're either moving forward, reacting to the enemy defenses, or hanging out in a static location, waiting for the enemy advance. Flamers work better when moving forward.

When moving forward, you have the luxury of placing the flamer model where you want it, doubly so when stepping out of a transport. The flamer model should always be set aside as you're piling out, and then placed in optimal firing position to hit the enemy. If he's stuck in the back row, he won't be able to hit anything because you'd touch your own model with the template. This tactic relies on your transport reaching the dropoff site alive. If it doesn't, your ability to acquire the perfect angle for the template is kneecapped by having to move the squad on foot, allowing the target to spread out, move away, etc.

Defensive units don't tend to make good use of flamers. When the enemy is approaching you, they don't tend to bunch up, like they would if they were hunkering down in cover. You land fewer hits if you do get to fire. I find that most opponents also don't get into flamer range unless they're sure they'll be able to charge you, and eliminate the threat entirely.

 

The best flamers are those that are carried by mobile units. I use a pair in an Assault Squad. The jump packs, and 12" movement range allow me to perfectly position the flamer Marines for maximum damage. Two well-placed flamer templates can burn down even power-armored troopers reliably.

 

Pros of a flamer: hits everything it touches, can wound more than two models at a time, denies cover saves, is an Assault weapon.

Cons of a flamer: requires a clear path to fire, S4/AP5 is hit-or-miss against most trooper models, short range leaves you in a charge-or-be-charged situation.

[Meatman]

Anything that is fast, and can take multiple flamers works well. Assault squads are great because they are anti-infantry anyway. My personal favourite is tact squad in pod with flamer and combi-flamer.

[Xeonic]

I would like to point out that in codex space marines we can't double up on specials in our tacs so the flamer is often more of a default special weapon than a single meltagun. It's free, and usually better than those bolter shots if you ever get to use it. :D

I honestly don't use meltaguns very often at all in my tacs, plasma are generally more killy vs both heavy infantry and light vehicles past 6", and flamers are far more effective vs any infantry except maybe termies. My Space Marines pack in plenty of AT in both the long range and fast moving melta variety elsewhere though. There's just something almost magical about moving up to a transport you just asploded and dropping a flame template on the packed models in the crater. ;) I've also found flamers are ideal in "close ranged" combat squads, as it magnifies the squads damage potential up close and combat squads often have the luxury of moving into whatever range is optimal for them. It's also worth noting that my sternguard make use of both combi-meltas and combi-flamers though, as both give them an opportunity to do something that they can't otherwise do with their special ammos, deal with hordes of low T critters up close and deal with armor.

Basically though if given the choice for my tacticals of melta or flamer I'll take the flamer most of the time as my tactical marines are geared to killing other troops at range, often with plasma cannons, and the flamer reinforces this role, even if it never meshes well with the heavy weapon(none of the specials except maybe plasma really do anyways).

 

With my chaos marines I take double melta on my first two CSM squads and double flamers on my third, or occasionally in smaller points games(1k or less) I take melta/flamer(or double melta and a combiflamer) as generally kraks/powerfist are enough to make up for single meltafail* in lower points and having flamers everywhere at lower points is fairly awesome. I generally use 3x2 oblits on foot(as opposed to teleporting) so having a strong antitank option in my troops is mandatory.

Basically given the choice with my chaos marines I take both! Twice as much melta as flamers because I lack the quantity of AT I need from my other slots, but having the ability to root hordes out of cover is also important. Of course I have no qualms about using my meltaguns against troops in this case either, but they're not quite as efficient. :P

 

*Yes, meltafail, or the tendency to either roll a miss or ones to wound/pen with a single melta, the very reason I generally dislike taking single meltaguns anywhere. :)

[ShinyRhino]

*Yes, meltafail, or the tendency to either roll a miss or ones to wound/pen with a single melta, the very reason I generally dislike taking single meltaguns anywhere. :)

 

So, it's not just me! I have Miserable Melta Luck, which is one of the reasons I've been phasing more plasma into my army. I can't roll poorly for BOTH weapon types, can I?

[minigun762]

So, it's not just me! I have Miserable Melta Luck, which is one of the reasons I've been phasing more plasma into my army. I can't roll poorly for BOTH weapon types, can I?

 

*watches as ShinyRhino's Plasma gunners all fry themselves the very first turn of his next game*

 

You know better then to tempt the fates like that. :)

 

The remark about Flamers being best for offensive/aggressive/mobile squads is right on. I often seem people taking them on objective campers as an assault deterrent. It might make sense in real life but with the average assault unit either being mechanized or faster then average (Fleet or Jumppacks), they will close the distance and get that charge in before you're able to use the Flamer.

[glsn]

Another good spot for a flamer is on a bike. Out of range? Use the bolters. Need to push him out of cover quickly? Zoom up and roast. Plus only five points and you can have two. Use with a Librarian with Avenger for added effect.

[LardO'Blood]

Flamers (and plasma) are my best friends. I play Orks and tyranids. Nuff said? (I use plasma because of the damage it does to MCs and it can wreck pretty much anything my Ork friend uses)

I love them in small point games because I can easily rapid fire/flame/krak a boy or gaunt squad to death in one turn with a pretty much barebones tactical squad.

[Tanhausen]

Actually, HF is my weapon of choice for my deathwing terminators.

 

S5 means you're bound to deliver a casualty or two vs MEQ... and since the termis are bound to assault...for 5 points I think they are really worth it.

 

However, the range (some 20 cm?) IS an issue so unless its an assault unit, it can backfire easily.

[Ryjak]

It's hard to go wrong with a Tactical Squad in a Rhino sporting a flamer. Add a Powerfist, and season with your choice of Multi-melta or Missile Launcher. It'll make people respect your Tactical Squads, especially if you roll with a 2nd Tactical Squad and attack the same target with both.

 

Few infantry units can withstand 30+ Str 4 AP 5 hits.

[pueriexdeus]

In all the years I have been playing 40K (20) I have never ever been able to use the flamer attached to my Tac Sqds'. PG's, MG's all day. But the Flamer have never been used. Oh, an exception was when we could take one with our Assault Sqds, might have used it once then. DW/CC w/HF oh ya.

[Grey Mage]

I wanted to start a discussion on the various uses and tactics involved in this most basic of special weapons.

 

It has alot going for it, being either free or very cheap in most squads and its stats match that of the standard Bolter exactly to enhance the natural anti-infantry strength of the basic Marine. And thanks to the generous amounts of cover saves (both terrain or ability based) in the game, the ability to ignore cover is now more important.

 

The most obvioius drawback is that it competes with the Meltagun for special weapon slots and in the current meta-game, mech is king. We can get around this by taking anti-tank options in other slots, leaving our basic infantry to handle the little guys.

 

As a Chaos player, one of the squads I've been wanting to try out is a 5 man Chosen squad in a Rhino with 5 Flamers. Cheapish at 150 points but in theory its able to fry entire squads of hordies regardless of what kind of fancy forcefield or sporecloud they bring.

Ive often heard of the coolness of flamers because of the large number of hits you can get with them at short range....

 

Thing is, especially for Chaos and SWs, your already doing well at short range. What you need more often than not is the ability to stay effective at range.

 

I dont think flamers do that. Particularly when they replace your long-arm. You exchange 3 or 4 turns of shooting for the chance of getting 3-5 hits at short range, if your opponent doesnt skip right over its 9" template and into combat with you. Its not a trade I would want to make often.

[Tanhausen]

Flamers I think only have 2 optimal carriers:

 

1.- Assault oriented unit, in order to wittle down the target

2.- Units with low BS... autohit! Thinking of Orks, IG and similar.

 

Baring this, Daemons have flamers that ignore armour... but this is too specific a weapon to compare codex-wide to flamers.

[Panda_]

People mentionned Flamers on jetpackers, but I would like to had in Rhinos.

 

Is there anything more useful to tank shock to cluster infantry, and zooming in with Flamers on Jetpacks ?

That Rhino and those 5 Raptors (carrying 2 Flamers) killed tons of orcs, MEQ and nobs just because each Flamers hit 5-6 guys. They didn't won all fights, but that small squad always delayed more expensive threats.

[LardO'Blood]

People mentionned Flamers on jetpackers, but I would like to had in Rhinos.

 

Is there anything more useful to tank shock to cluster infantry, and zooming in with Flamers on Jetpacks ?

That Rhino and those 5 Raptors (carrying 2 Flamers) killed tons of orcs, MEQ and nobs just because each Flamers hit 5-6 guys. They didn't won all fights, but that small squad always delayed more expensive threats.

Never thought of that before!

...Hehehe...Grey hunters with double flamers in a rhino with a LRR...Say goodbye to your boyz!