The blood angels codex

[Necronsftw]

Warmaster's Rant

Aww the blood angels codex, its a shame being a blood angel player for so long to see what happened. The codex is just an ok codex...its not compeitive well has not been ontop of its game lately. Razorspam just isnt good for BAs and sadly Space Wolves are better at it. The BA's razorspam just isnt as good and can not do as well as the SW. So this could just be me or is their another hidden way to play blood angels that not many people have figured out. We all know the DoA Razorspam like that, but could the rhino rush be a more effective way to run the codex. OR will it stay a mediocre team which it seems is what happening, now im no gaming snob but I can not find a very competitive list that works well. So any advice would be great.

RANT OUT ;) :P

[Lanfear]

Well, just play SW.

[Brother Weasel]

Warmaster's Rant

Aww the blood angels codex, its a shame being a blood angel player for so long to see what happened. The codex is just an ok codex...its not compeitive well has not been ontop of its game lately. Razorspam just isnt good for BAs and sadly Space Wolves are better at it. The BA's razorspam just isnt as good and can not do as well as the SW. So this could just be me or is their another hidden way to play blood angels that not many people have figured out. We all know the DoA Razorspam like that, but could the rhino rush be a more effective way to run the codex. OR will it stay a mediocre team which it seems is what happening, now im no gaming snob but I can not find a very competitive list that works well. So any advice would be great.

RANT OUT :tu: :P

 

don't razor spam for one...

 

second, define competative? i mean do you want to win every game? you picked the wrong hobby for that...

 

you need to play to the strengths of the BA, not try to make the BA fit in what some other army does... assult squads are your friends, fast tanks are your friends, flanking Baal preds are your friends...

 

third, it's not a hidden way to play BA best, read the board and see a few ways to do it.

[Assault-back Kid]

Interesting rant, what big things have you seen change? anything you wish they still had?

 

I don't know that Razorspam is ineffective for BA's I killed 1750 points worth of orks with 1000 points and have brought mechdar forces to a snales crawl.

 

What point sizes are you playing? And what are most you opponents?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This thread is troll bait... really pathetic too.

 

* sneers *

 

0b :tu:

[Leonaides]

Now now BO, be nice... The OP apparently struggles with creating a decent competative list that isnt exactly like the one of the interwebz... (insert sarcasm to taste there)

 

As for sayign the BA's razorspam isnt as good as SW - Cant we get more, cheaper? (RAS price-drop when they surrender their JP's). As for hidden ways to play BA. Its an amazingly feindishly well hidden way - look in Codex: Blood Angels, find the army list, select to given points value based on personal preference and available models/willingness of opponent to accept proxies, play game. If you are a half-decent commander, you ought to be able to make your selection work. If you arent, no cookie-cutter list is going to help you.

[Necronsftw]

Note this wasn't for troll bait and I want to stick with my blood angels, I'm trying to think of OTHER ways to run the blood angels seeing that razorspam has not been the best of the blood angels

[Brother_Dan'l]

If Razorspam doesn't work for you then try something else. Go with pure DoA. Try hybrid with Land Raiders. What about Drop Pods? Or Stormravens? Or.... And so on and so on. If after you've tried all these permutations you still don't like the Codex, then move on to a different Chapter.

 

But if you honestly think Puppies can do Razorspam "better" you'll need to qualify that statement. What Wolves spam list is better than your optimal BA Razor list? Why? You know the drill. ^_^

[Necronsftw]

The storm raven might be something to try out. But i have been playing BAs for a while like I said and will still play them, Im looking for a tougher list and I dont wanna go off and play the SWs anyway. Its kinda sad but the local metagame is who has the meanest lists you can come up with.Ard Boys there is something else. Anyway back on topic I will difinetly try to toggle around with some different options, like Tycho or Astroth

[Crynn]

I have only lost 1 game out of around 30 with my blood angels and that was largely due to very poor dice rolls and abaddon rolling 30 bonus attacks over 6 rounds (average of 5 per assault phase in bonus attacks) The guy is also a very good player and plays a chaos list completely designed to be as nasty as possible almost taylored to beat mech, we are 1/1/1 with each other being win draw loss, and like i said dice rolls were key. Other than that my BA's have never gone down quite a few draws though. Now I know some of the players may be sub par but that will always happen, my list I'snt even completely optimized, I have a librarian dreadnaught for christs sake but my point is that BA's work fine, you don't have to be 'better than the last codex' to be cometitive, (I really believe BA's will be great against DA more so than wolves or IG) Things like wolves and IG are all round a bit more powerfull in terms of there are more types of competitive lists for them but I think with a top tier BA list you can take them, I believe this involves a heavily mechanised force which isnt razorspam (Which BA's do better than wolves, I don't know how you think otherwise). For my list I play around 1750 and I have 1 baal 1 las autocannon pred 1 razorback 1 rhino 2 Vindis a lib dread and Meph, so quite a spread compared to just razor spam and I cannot express the success ive had.

 

Something ive also found is Players are overzealous with their use of Sang Priests especially in mechanised forces where they are less usefull. I for one in 1750 points have only one and it is inbuilt into an honour guard which means the jump pack upgrade cost is 15pts less and he isnt a seperate KP and cant be targetted out.

 

So my advice. Use your head and not always the interent lists that are so common, avoid the obvious units that dont perform being sang guard and DC with packs and stick to some strengths las autocannon pred is amazing better than a riflemen for BA's Baals are good and can scout and use smoke in that move (I do this to help give my other vehicles cover saves if I dont get first turn) see sneaky, use your head. If you are playing for total win take Meph, I will point blank argue that he is always a good choice if used correctly and functions well in a Mech list. Use synergies such as shield and sangpriest, our synergies are better than wolf ones so this can help. Make sure all your armies have some form of Psychic defence, a way to kill big characters. Use assault squads to access more special weapons and cheap transports and only number the squad at 5 men if its using a transport it will give you more bang for your buck in terms of the transport discount. If you take a tac squad gice the sargant a combi for ten points, a melta plasma or even flamer will in one attack generallly make there points back in a single shot. kill a marine with a plamsa gun, points back, kill 3 orcs with a flamer points back, even just damage or stun a vehicle and its well worth it with a melta, Use rhinos for tac squads not razorbacks so they can shoot special weapons or even a heavy if you need to out the top. (I always take just one tac squad to sit on home points) These are all small things that add up.

 

BA's require much more battle smarts than an IG or WOLVES list which are very just shoot/attack your target. Comparitively Ba's are like the eldar of the marine world. Want to learn to play them well go watch a good eldar player and learn to master the movement phase as that is where the game is won and lost for BA's.

 

Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Crynn.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you go DoA then you can play full assault squads with obviously has advantages over the 5 man razor squads. You will have to play both smart and aggressive though with DoA, it is much less forgiving than razorspam. The SR is perfect with this style of play. There are lots of jump units to chose from so there is a lot different things you can do.

 

0b :D

[Crynn]

If you go DoA then you can play full assault squads with obviously has advantages over the 5 man razor squads. You will have to play both smart and aggressive though with DoA, it is much less forgiving than razorspam. The SR is perfect with this style of play. There are lots of jump units to chose from so there is a lot different things you can do.

 

0b :wallbash:

 

 

I would never advocate using a storm raven in a competitive game. It goes with the sang guard, cool and fun but not very effective, it lacks survivability for 200+ points. It can be playerble in a pure alpha strike lsit but they will not get you to the top of the hard tournaments. Judging by the original posters message I would say keep clear of SR's they require a good generals hand and generally aren't worth their points and become less usefull for DoA style armies as they have no armour saturation and if you put the SR in reserve there is a high chance it'll come after many of your jump packs troops arrive leaving them unsupported, It again will work better in a mech list with a lib giving it shield.

 

Sry to sound rude there Ob I mean no disrespect to you as i've read many of your posts nodding in agreement before.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The thing is the SR actually has a lot of tools to help protect it...

 

1) ceramite shielding - melta is not so much of a threat and due to it's inherent speed you should be able to keep it out of range from meltaguns.

2) extra armor - as long as it's not immobilized it can keep moving; sure we take extra armor for granted but it's still very powerful for a SR and well worth the points.

3) fast skimmer - you can always have a 4+ cover save if you feel you need it; that's also another big advantage for the SR. It's like being able to pop smoke every turn. Also you should never have to worry about an opponent charging your SR while it's mobile.

4) PotMS, twin linked multi-melta, twin linked lascannon and Bloodstrike missiles; if you want to use the SR as a heavy weapons platform it's there. It's great at coming on the table and destroying your worst threat. If you are arming it with stuff like hurricane bolters you have to pay for these options plus you have to move in close to get the maximum effect. Both the lascannon and multi-melta are free and the best choices in my opinion. You can outrange most enemy shooting with the Bloodstrike missiles plus since it's a fast skimmer you can move 6" and fire everything if you like. The SR is perfect for alphastriking a mech army. PotMS is another big advantage - you can move flat-out and still shoot - this works very well with the twin linked multi-melta and is a potent threat to most any armor.

5) AV12 on front & sides; much more survivable than a rhino or razorback. This is often overlooked.

6) Transport capability; it can carry a dreadnaught and terminators/jump infantry. The ability to drop a dreadnaught with Blood Talons is very strong for your offense - basically you should always be able to destroy one unit with the dreadnaught. No one else can transport jump infantry which in my opinion is as powerful as transporting the dreadnaught.

 

Protect your investment - If you want your SR to survive long enough to get your investment back then you should focus on eliminating threats to it. There is a lot of synergy going on using both Vanguard veterans (HI) in combination with the SR. If you are expecting the SR to simply fly around impervious to shooting then it's not the right choice for you. You have to protect your Stormraven. It's just that simple.

 

I think that when GW releases an official model the SR will become much more popular. The same thing happened with drop pods when its official model was released. Just because we dont see a lot of SR now doesnt mean it is a bad choice or not worth taking. So again it's all about your tactics. Like I said a DoA style army is not as forgiving as razorspam but in my opinion it's much more powerful in the right hands. The SR has all the tools you need to make it work and it doesn't have to survive a whole game to make back it's points - destroy a Leman Russ or landraider with it's shooting and deliver a dreadnaught into close combat. Typically that's all it needs to do to be effective.

 

0b :wallbash:

[the bearded bandit]

i think a 6 pred list could work well and blood angels are the only army that can do it so maby thats the hidden strength

[Ranwulf]

I've learned that the best list usually work for those who know exactaly what's good and what's horrible. Build a new list, and keep going with it until you learned everything about it.

 

Oh, and I don't go three Pred Aut;Las, actually, I go three Vindicators, and seriously, I've won many games with them.

 

Use cookie lists as a base, but get things that works for you.

 

Ran

[Ozybonza]

Saying BA are uncompetative is just wrong. They are a top tier codex - with IG being #1 and SW probably just squeezing out BA for #2.

 

Why the heck would they make a codex that does razorspam better than SW? That would be pointless. BA have fast vehicles, DoA and that's just for starters.

 

I fun 4 x 10 man assault squads (JP), 3 x JP priests, 1 x JP libby, 3 x Landspeeder typhoons and 2 x MM/HF landspeeders and that list seriously pwns, despite the use of landspeeders which aren't really popular with boring old netlists.

[Crynn]

The thing is the SR actually has a lot of tools to help protect it...

 

1) ceramite shielding - melta is not so much of a threat and due to it's inherent speed you should be able to keep it out of range from meltaguns.

2) extra armor - as long as it's not immobilized it can keep moving; sure we take extra armor for granted but it's still very powerful for a SR and well worth the points.

3) fast skimmer - you can always have a 4+ cover save if you feel you need it; that's also another big advantage for the SR. It's like being able to pop smoke every turn. Also you should never have to worry about an opponent charging your SR while it's mobile.

4) PotMS, twin linked multi-melta, twin linked lascannon and Bloodstrike missiles; if you want to use the SR as a heavy weapons platform it's there. It's great at coming on the table and destroying your worst threat. If you are arming it with stuff like hurricane bolters you have to pay for these options plus you have to move in close to get the maximum effect. Both the lascannon and multi-melta are free and the best choices in my opinion. You can outrange most enemy shooting with the Bloodstrike missiles plus since it's a fast skimmer you can move 6" and fire everything if you like. The SR is perfect for alphastriking a mech army. PotMS is another big advantage - you can move flat-out and still shoot - this works very well with the twin linked multi-melta and is a potent threat to most any armor.

5) AV12 on front & sides; much more survivable than a rhino or razorback. This is often overlooked.

6) Transport capability; it can carry a dreadnaught and terminators/jump infantry. The ability to drop a dreadnaught with Blood Talons is very strong for your offense - basically you should always be able to destroy one unit with the dreadnaught. No one else can transport jump infantry which in my opinion is as powerful as transporting the dreadnaught.

 

Protect your investment - If you want your SR to survive long enough to get your investment back then you should focus on eliminating threats to it. There is a lot of synergy going on using both Vanguard veterans (HI) in combination with the SR. If you are expecting the SR to simply fly around impervious to shooting then it's not the right choice for you. You have to protect your Stormraven. It's just that simple.

 

I think that when GW releases an official model the SR will become much more popular. The same thing happened with drop pods when its official model was released. Just because we dont see a lot of SR now doesnt mean it is a bad choice or not worth taking. So again it's all about your tactics. Like I said a DoA style army is not as forgiving as razorspam but in my opinion it's much more powerful in the right hands. The SR has all the tools you need to make it work and it doesn't have to survive a whole game to make back it's points - destroy a Leman Russ or landraider with it's shooting and deliver a dreadnaught into close combat. Typically that's all it needs to do to be effective.

 

0b :wallbash:

 

You make some good points but there are some things I believe you need to take into account.

1) ceremite shielding. It is good but melta is not what will be taking these down, it will be missle launchers and things of that sort due to the SR relatively low armour nd inability to find cover. Also meltas will hardly even be in range of the SR unless you are transporting something which I will get to latter.

2) People are starting to realize how much extra armour is over costed and do not tkae it and I have always felt this way, again it is really only usefull when transporting.

3) This is all good and well but to do this you cannot deploy troops propperly or utalize its fire power to any good ability meaning its done nothing other than increase its surviveability by 50% at best (only 17% if you have shield cast near it) and it has done little else except shoot 1 gun.

4) I completely agree, but this is a problem too. If you are to use its formidable weaponary you are not using its transport capacity which you paid points for also if you dont have first turn it may die before it attacks, this is highly likely unless you reserve it and then on average you won't see it till 3rd turn. 2 turns with 200pts worth of fire power missing is really bad especially considdering the first few turns is where the most dmg is done.

5) not as surviveable, very easy to conceal a rhino or razorback behind another chassis of the same size and it is very very easy to get a 4+ save these units are also 1 quater the cost.

6) Transporting jump infantry really isnt that great as you are paying points for their packs which you then dont utalise properly. The dread yes however if you dont have first turn and your raven goes down with the dread in it which it wil if you dont have that first turn then you have another 125+ point models taking 3 turns to find combat. I know there is no model which might effect it however if it were that good more would be built.

 

I like your view on things and being optimistic about the raven however it has many drawbacks for all tis strengths.

 

Crynn

[Ruthven]

BA's require much more battle smarts than an IG or WOLVES list which are very just shoot/attack your target. Comparitively Ba's are like the eldar of the marine world. Want to learn to play them well go watch a good eldar player and learn to master the movement phase as that is where the game is won and lost for BA's.

 

 

I agree with this completely. I started playing 40k with Eldar. I picked up Blood Angels when the new book came out. I can't stress enough how much playing Eldar helped with the Blood Angels. The movement phase is extremely important to the BA, as it is to the Eldar. I was happy to see just how much of a finesse army the BA actually ended up being, especially if you don't want to razorspam. If I put assault marines in a trasport, I put them in Rhinos, I want them to go 18 the first turn, so they won't be shooting anyway. Sure, if the transport survives, then you could be well-served by a razorback's gun, but if the transport gets popped, its going to be a lot easier to wipe out 5-6 marines rather than 10.

 

Successfully general-ing BA has come down to how well I can make the units support each other. Much of what Crynn has said is similar to what I do. I love my Autocannon/las sponson preds, and believe it or not, my Death Company. I find that they both serve as good distraction units if nothing else. If your enemy dumps shots into the Pred and/or Death Company Rhino, that means they didn't put nearly as much fire into your Assault Squads and other targets. If they try to ignore your support, then your opponent has to deal with the Death Company showing up at their door and a Pred popping their transports. The most important thing is that whatever units you choose, you need to make sure that you don't give your opponent any good options. No matter what they focus on, you need to make sure you have enough concentrated assault troops moving downfield quickly so that something gets there, and that something hits hard.

[SnorriSnorrison]

1) I agree with Black Orange on the Stormraven. Its value is often underrated in DoA lists, or simply "normal" builds with mixed choices(i.e. no spam lists). In mech lists, it won't work that good, but I don't like mech (spam) so hey.

 

2) If you want to find a competitive list, you have several options. You can ask the interwebz for a 0815 list and try it out. This is the easiest way as it requieres no playtesting and is pretty unimaginative, even poor. ;)

You could also hit the gaming table and try a different list every game, finding the list that fits you best. This is the way the hobby was created for, at least in my eyes: Find new friends and game for fun.

 

Then you can find the list that is competitive and probably no spam list.

 

To underline this statement, it might be helpful to take a look at those players who did a pretty good job in recent tournaments while not using a typical mech spam list, for example Morticon's tourney list was very exciting to look at and it seems that it was effective as well, or Black Orange's list, which is based around jumpers and plays the strenghts of BA very well.

 

There is always an alternative to Mech BA. Only because nobody has tried it, it doesn't mean it can't work. :D

 

 

 

Snorri

[Marshal Wilhelm]

These are links to 3++ is the new black.

Bloodwing + Devs

Blood Rodeo

Fast n Slow

Blood Drops

 

Whilst I am not advocating that you must echo these lists [it is up to you] they could get your mental juices flowing.

[Spagunk]

... flanking Baal preds are your friends...

 

That's what she said!

[Venerable Jazzman]

How are you running your Razorbacks, if you're having problems with a mech list?

I've found over the years that they work best in pairs - as has been pointed out, 5 or 6 guys are just a bit too fragile to hold out effectively, and too small to hit home hard.

 

This is my 1500 - I'm still tweaking the Heavy Support, possibly looking at plasmacannon/autocannon dreads to replace the Vindi and the twin autocannon dreads. But I'll probably magnetize the whole lot so I can swap it about as needed.

 

Captain, twin claws 130

 

2x Sang Priests 100

 

2x 5-man Assault, fist, melta

1x 5-man Assault, plasma

1x 5-man Assault, flamer

4x Razorbacks, twin-asscans, extra armour. 770 total

3-man DC. 60

Rhino 50

 

Vindicator, extra armour. 160

Dread, 2x twin autocannon. 120

Dread, 2x twin autocannon. 120

 

Each Razorback pair has 2x5 guys, a Priest, a fist, a meltagun and either plasma or flamer. Plus 8 t/l ass-can shots.

DC drive across the board at full speed to cause trouble and draw fire away from the rest of the army, giving them time to get into firing positions.

 

Comment from Gaganius on the Dreads vs Vindi HS choice -

To me the AV13 vindicators are actually less robust than the AV12 Dreads.

 

In order to get both AP2 and a high volume of shots, I been running dreads with plasma cannon and autocannon instead of the double ACs. It's the same point cost and mitigates the need for the vindicator (some what).

 

My HS at 2000pts is essentially three of the plasma/ac dreads and they have been unbelievably effective. Last night they just decimated a Mech Guard army, between the 3 I think they killed a Valk and 5 chimeras along with a ton of guardsmen. If I had used a Vindicator instead, it would have had to close the distance too much and would have ended up in melta range, that is one of the big difference between it and the longer range dreads, and it is one of the factors that makes a huge difference in survivability.

 

Other factors in the increased survivability of dreads over vindicators include the higher side armour on the dreads, small base size, in CC they don't get hit on their back armour and they lock opposing units into CC.

[Crynn]

1) I agree with Black Orange on the Stormraven. Its value is often underrated in DoA lists, or simply "normal" builds with mixed choices(i.e. no spam lists). In mech lists, it won't work that good, but I don't like mech (spam) so hey.

 

Snorri

 

 

I couldnt disagree with this more. How is a raven better in a doa list than in a mech one? It makes no mathamatical sense and little sense anywhere else. It has no armour saturation to help it survive and unless you put it in reserves or deep strike it, it will be the only threatening target in the lis on first turn an WILL get shot down. Transporting jump troops isnt really that fantastic and if you transport a dread you just make it a bigger target. I have playe against 2 lists that took storm ravens. One it killed nothing cause he used it as a transport and i shot it down and his squads were then left in asault range for me, great. The second the player ost it 1st turn cause the massiv thing was jsut an easy picking AV12 flying vehicle that my pred loved, the only ption is to resrve it and the you loose all that firepower for on average 2 turns as in it turns up turn 3. Horrible. Its only use is a gunshipin a mechlist if you want it to do anything remotey effective. People who find it great must be versng lesser opponents because every time I see one it just gets put back in the case as soon as its deployed.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Erasmus of Baal]

The thing is the SR actually has a lot of tools to help protect it...

 

0b ;)

 

You make some good points but there are some things I believe you need to take into account.

 

Crynn

(I am not going to make people scroll past all of that again! :P )

 

1) Ceramite plating: It's worthwhile for close-range work because normally melta weapons are chosen over anything else for short-ranger anti-vehicle work. However, I have to agree with Crynn that it's not great because AV12 means that even plasma has a good chance of hurting it. This rule takes out melta as a problem, but there are bigger issues to worry about. Anyone still fielding melta-obsessing lists will have a harder time wounding this guy, although melta is still viable as a way to take Stormravens down at close range.

2) Extra Armor: 'only useful for transport', you say? What else is a Stormraven for? If you want weapons platforms, we DO have better and occasionally cheaper options--even Land Speeders can realistically make a comparable (or even a downright better) impression if you're seriously focusing on a Stormraven's shooting ability. THIS THING IS A TRANSPORT.

3) Fast Skimmer: I'll agree with Black Orange on this one. The Skies of Blood rule lets it drop its troops even when moving Flat Out, and Power of the Machine Spirit lets it shoot when moving Flat Out. This, in my opinion, is where the Stormraven gets most of its awesomeness from. Effectively 36" melta range? Yes, please!

4) Stormraven as a weapons platform: yes, it does work. I continue to maintain, however, that its best use is thinking of it as a troop transport--the biggest advantage here is that all of a sudden, the unit you're transporting doesn't have to worry about popping metal boxes! And that's just for the Bloodstrike missiles--it becomes astonishingly effective at this once you throw in the twin-linked multi-melta and lascannons. It can fill other roles with its weaponry, but I haven't tried these out yet.

5) AV12: it sucks. But when you can get your save from movement instead of from actually standing behind something, suddenly the value skyrockets. In order for a Rhino or Razorback to cinsistently get a 4+ save, it has to hide behind cover constantly--something that our lovely Stormraven can wholly disregard. AV12 isn't great, but I'm with Black Orange on this one: it's better than the cheap :(.

6) As a transport: well, what have I been saying the entire time? This is what this tin can is for! Transporting jump infantry is viable not because one should fly in normally and have them assault--that makes it a flying Land Raider and should be used for regular infantry or Terminators. Jump infantry work in this guy because it can fly in close at Flat Out, drop them reliably behind cover with Skies of Blood, and then let loose with some nasty weapons (like a twin-linked multi-melta). The dreadnought doesn't work as well with Skies of Blood, true, but I for one am not going to complain about making my Death Company dreadnought actually go where I want it to!

 

TL;DR: The Stormraven is first a transport and then a flying tank. Used well, it goes from mediocre to insanely awesome. Underestimate at your own risk.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1) I agree with Black Orange on the Stormraven. Its value is often underrated in DoA lists, or simply "normal" builds with mixed choices(i.e. no spam lists). In mech lists, it won't work that good, but I don't like mech (spam) so hey.

 

Snorri

 

 

I couldnt disagree with this more. How is a raven better in a doa list than in a mech one? It makes no mathamatical sense and little sense anywhere else. It has no armour saturation to help it survive and unless you put it in reserves or deep strike it, it will be the only threatening target in the lis on first turn an WILL get shot down. Transporting jump troops isnt really that fantastic and if you transport a dread you just make it a bigger target. I have playe against 2 lists that took storm ravens. One it killed nothing cause he used it as a transport and i shot it down and his squads were then left in asault range for me, great. The second the player ost it 1st turn cause the massiv thing was jsut an easy picking AV12 flying vehicle that my pred loved, the only ption is to resrve it and the you loose all that firepower for on average 2 turns as in it turns up turn 3. Horrible. Its only use is a gunshipin a mechlist if you want it to do anything remotey effective. People who find it great must be versng lesser opponents because every time I see one it just gets put back in the case as soon as its deployed.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

 

Crynn your opinions are noted. Are you basing this on actual game play or your own brand of theory hammer? My results from gaming vary significantly with what you are saying. I'd like to find out why there is such a large discrepancy. It seems like you just dont like the SR. Saying people who are having success are playing baby seals is a copout on your part... same thing can be said about anything really. Going by what you said above I dont think you know how to use the SR properly.

 

0b :)