Emergency disembarkation scenarios

[Brother Captain Ed]

Ok, I read through the thread and I'm still confused.

 

So, let's say I have a squad of bikes (because the bases are bigger) and I scoot on up to a rhino so that you cannot deploy within 2 inches of the exit points and then melta it.

 

What happens if it's wrecked?

 

What happens if it explodes (other than an explosion)?

 

Is there even a difference?

[Ming]

We've never really dealth with the issue of multiple explosions. For brevity we always went with one...issue was always how big...

[vonny]

wrecked: page 67 of the main rule book, under effects of damage results on passengers - wrecked:

"The passengers must immediately disembark and then take a pinning test." if enemies block off your access points, refer to "disembarking on the same page: ".... the unit can perform an emergency disembarkation - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull"

 

If even this emergency disembarkation fails because either your whole vehicle is surrounded by enemies or impassable terrain or friendly models or the like, go back to the damage results on passengers: "any models that cannot disembark are destroyed. AFTER this, the vehicle becomes a wreck" (emphasis mine). As the vehicle isn't a wreck yet when the disembarkation takes place, you cannot place your models on top of your vehicle.

 

 

Destroyed - Explodes: Still on page 67 of the main rule book, every models suffers a S4 ap- hit, and then "the surviving passengers are placed where the vehicle used to be and then take a pinning test" This is absolutely different from the wrecked result as now you're obligated to place your unit somewhere you couldn't place them with a wrecked result

[Jakobus]

OK this is how I understand the where the emergency disembark comes into play.

 

If your transport suffers a Destroyed: Wrecked result the unit inside must attempt to disembark via the vehicles access points as normal. Should all the models not be able to disembark normally due to enemy models within 1" and/or inpassable terrian / the edge of the table the models unable to deploy out that access point will have to use the emergency disembarkation rule, i.e. Dangerous terrian.

If there is no possible way for the unit to disembark due to the above reasons, i.e. the vehicle is surrounded on all sides, then these models are unable to disembark either normally or by the emergency method then they are destroyed.

 

Emergency disembarkation could occur more regularly with single access point vehicles (see Tau and Eldar) where it is somewhat more difficult to block all access points on a Rhino / Landraider but not impossible.

 

As to the standing on the roof of the vehicle after a Destroyed: Wrecked. I would point out that you still can place the models within 1" of the front edge of the enemy unit either, and depending on how you are playing the rules of measuring in terrian (the vehicle now being "terrian") from p.82. On a Rhino / Razorback I would accept that there may be a thin line down the middle which you could deploy down maybe, I'd actually have to measure. A Landraider could be more likely but the chance of that being totally surrounded is low. If looking at a Standard GW large flying base (see the IG Valks) you may have modelling issues if it does come off the base

[thade]

I hate to throw a Monkey Wrench into this, but I think the whole multiple explosions thing is bonk; pretty easy reason why.

 

Let's say you hit a Rhino with four krak missiles and Pen with them all. Wouldn't you know it? You roll all 6s for the table result. So you roll d6" for the first boom, roll wounds to the guys inside and the guys outside, they all make whatever saves they need to, and you remove the vehicle. Now you go to roll the second d6"...and realize that the vehicle is gone and can't really explode again. <_<

 

:devil:

 

If it was the case that multiple explosions were a factor, it'd certainly spell that out for us. All it says is to handle it as if there's one explosion. So...there it is.

 

If nothing else, Ming's spot on with how annoying multiple explosions would get. How do you allocate wounds out to surrounding squads, for instance? Once the guys are pinned from the first boom, do they get a cover save? They're in a crater now, after all. It gets weird no matter how you cut it, so that makes me think they would've addressed it. They didn't, and that's way too big to leave out, even for GW.

[dswanick]

I hate to throw a Monkey Wrench into this, but I think the whole multiple explosions thing is bonk; pretty easy reason why.

 

Let's say you hit a Rhino with four krak missiles and Pen with them all. Wouldn't you know it? You roll all 6s for the table result. So you roll d6" for the first boom, roll wounds to the guys inside and the guys outside, they all make whatever saves they need to, and you remove the vehicle. Now you go to roll the second d6"...and realize that the vehicle is gone and can't really explode again. <_<

 

;)

 

If it was the case that multiple explosions were a factor, it'd certainly spell that out for us. All it says is to handle it as if there's one explosion. So...there it is.

 

If nothing else, Ming's spot on with how annoying multiple explosions would get. How do you allocate wounds out to surrounding squads, for instance? Once the guys are pinned from the first boom, do they get a cover save? They're in a crater now, after all. It gets weird no matter how you cut it, so that makes me think they would've addressed it. They didn't, and that's way too big to leave out, even for GW.

This is how I've always played it - with the caveat that if 4X Explode results occurs we roll 4d6 and pick the highest die for the radius, then apply one explosion. It pretty much garauntees that multiple Explodes results in the biggest boom possible.

[thade]

This is how I've always played it - with the caveat that if 4X Explode results occurs we roll 4d6 and pick the highest die for the radius, then apply one explosion. It pretty much garauntees that multiple Explodes results in the biggest boom possible.

 

Rolling one die is more within the rules (if it only explodes once, you only roll one die)...that said, it's a small change for a house rule and I kind of like it. Rolling more dice is always fun.

[dswanick]

This is how I've always played it - with the caveat that if 4X Explode results occurs we roll 4d6 and pick the highest die for the radius, then apply one explosion. It pretty much garauntees that multiple Explodes results in the biggest boom possible.

 

Rolling one die is more within the rules (if it only explodes once, you only roll one die)...that said, it's a small change for a house rule and I kind of like it. Rolling more dice is always fun.

It was actually a compromise for a disagreement over the rules :

DAMAGE ROLLS - If a vehicle's armour is breached, you need to determine what damage is caused. Roll a D6 for each shot that glanced or penetrated the

vehicle's armour, apply any appropriate modifiers (they are all cumulative) and look up the resolution on the Vehicle Damage table below.

Some people argued (not unreasonably) that you take all the glancing and penetrating hits and apply all the results (including multiple explosion results) resulting in some nearby units being hit two or three times by a single vehicle explosion, which seems to follow the RAW. Others argued that there should only ever be 1 explode result applied and all other results are ignored(basically taking each pen one at a time rolling the result and applying before moving on to the next, not exactly RAW) because the vehicle has been removed from the game, even if that one explode only has a 1" radius. Just as is being discussed in this thread, this seemed a reasonable comprimise between multiple explodes and 1 piddly explode. But, yes, this is a decent compromise. I voted for a little more carnage - wanting to do 1 explosion of the best of the d6" with a +1 to the Str for each extra Explode result over the first but I didn't get my way. :D

[vonny]

As to the standing on the roof of the vehicle after a Destroyed: Wrecked. I would point out that you still can place the models within 1" of the front edge of the enemy unit either, and depending on how you are playing the rules of measuring in terrian (the vehicle now being "terrian") from p.82. On a Rhino / Razorback I would accept that there may be a thin line down the middle which you could deploy down maybe, I'd actually have to measure. A Landraider could be more likely but the chance of that being totally surrounded is low. If looking at a Standard GW large flying base (see the IG Valks) you may have modelling issues if it does come off the base

No, I don't believe you can, actually. You disembark first and then you replace the vehicle with a wreck, and it becomes terrain. While you are disembarking, it is still a friendly unit, and not terrain, and you cannot place friendly units on top of one another. So first you disembark, may or may not lose the unit, and when all that's sorted out, then the vehicle becomes a wreck, and thus the unit turns into terrain.

[Algesan]

I hate to throw a Monkey Wrench into this, but I think the whole multiple explosions thing is bonk; pretty easy reason why.

 

Let's say you hit a Rhino with four krak missiles and Pen with them all. Wouldn't you know it? You roll all 6s for the table result. So you roll d6" for the first boom, roll wounds to the guys inside and the guys outside, they all make whatever saves they need to, and you remove the vehicle. Now you go to roll the second d6"...and realize that the vehicle is gone and can't really explode again. :rolleyes:

 

:pinch:

 

If it was the case that multiple explosions were a factor, it'd certainly spell that out for us. All it says is to handle it as if there's one explosion. So...there it is.

 

If nothing else, Ming's spot on with how annoying multiple explosions would get. How do you allocate wounds out to surrounding squads, for instance? Once the guys are pinned from the first boom, do they get a cover save? They're in a crater now, after all. It gets weird no matter how you cut it, so that makes me think they would've addressed it. They didn't, and that's way too big to leave out, even for GW.

 

Not disagreeing with the one explosion, but not a good monkey wrench. After all, the first Krak blew up the engine, the second the fuel tank, the third the ready ammunition, the fourth the stored ammunition, etc., etc., etc. In the case of something with a really big cannon, do we have to count the number of shells left?

 

:verymad:

[Seahawk]

I suppose another good house rule is to just roll all the distances and take the highest. But then we're not here to make house rules, this is the OR ;).

[shatter]

...Consensus?

 

Exit choked by 1" rule; use emergency 2" from hull anywhere (but not the roof nor impassible terrain) more than 1" from enemy models else destroyed?

 

That's how I play... amiright?

 

My current list has a 14 man assault terminator squad and I (try to) do this a LOT and I don't want to fail to appreciate and RAW consequences before I move and assault. Being confident with the rules here is important to me.

 

My LGG had a similar thing with the DC (rage) closest rule. If you roll for terrain and it ends up becoming effectively longer, tough. You can't go back on a roll. So I reckon the guy that DTT-ed over the wreck was doing it perfectly. Good on him. Except (?) we (don't know if this is a house rule) use the roof of a wreck like a ruin level (3" to climb) which tends to prevent it.

 

A different player disembarked onto the 2nd level of a ruin by driving his rhino under it. There was a gap in the ruin wall that allowed the idea, but the model (base) effectively disembarked (a libby) 3" away from the typical place his base could go yet the model's base was well under 2" from the rhino access point (hull). His opponent thought it was pretty cool and allowed it... were they correct? Could this be used under emergency disembarkation?

[Isiah]

Exit choked by 1" rule; use emergency 2" from hull anywhere (but not the roof nor impassible terrain) more than 1" from enemy models else destroyed?

 

As far as I see it you are.

 

Cheers

I

[Ideaus]

Rule book FAQ officaly update 1.2 (australia site) states if:

 

Q: If a vehicle receives multiple Destroyed – Explodes!

results simultaneously how many D6 do you roll to

determine the blast radius? (p61)

A: One

 

if that helps