Tournament coming up on Sunday Oct24th

[RedSarge]

Hi, glory to the lion!

 

I don't play nowhere near as much as I used to (at least 2 games a month) ever since started studying engineering and the release of 5th Edition. Plus being swamped with 6 armies worth of 40k and OTHER models bogged down progress on my DA.

 

Enough preamble! A 'Ard Boyz-esque tournament is being hosted at mg LGS, written up regulations and all.

The tournament will be 2000pts, using 5th Edition rules and the latest FAQS, and I will be taking an underpowered codex.*

 

* Deathwing and Ravenwing aside

 

I will be attending and utilizing the awesomeness of my Deathwing... which have NEVER been defeated or even sorely bashed in the 6 years I've had them! That's a good record so I would like to at least do well despite playing the 5th Edition ruleset.

 

I will brush up on my 5th Ed-fu as I only read the book once when it first came out... the date escapes me as unimportant.

(4th Ed all the way!) It is late so I'm probably getting off topic.

 

What I ask of you fellow B&Cer's is for some advise on fighting (HERETICAL I KNOW) other Space Marines using a Deathwing armylist. (I have access to 90% of DA models - no FW allowed in the tourny)

 

From my 'scouting' I have ascertained my opponents to be:

Blood Angels, Black Templars x2 (looking forward to seeing these two armies), Space Wolves, Tau, Codex Marines

 

MY LIST usually has:

BELIAL (Thunder Hammer Storm Shield attached to #3)

Librarian w/Hellfire, TDA, Storm Bolter, Force Wpn

DW Squad#1 - (1 Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter & PF, Sgt w/Pwr Wpn)

DW Squad#2 - (1 Cyclone, Chainfist, Storm Bolter & PF, Sgt w/Lightning Claws)

DW Squad#3 - (1 Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Apothecary, Standard, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield)

 

LR Crusader (thnx Templars)

Whirl Wind x 2 (These are the number equalizers! Try them in your DW list some time ok!)

Dreadnought - Assault Cannon, PF, Hvy Flamer

Dreadnought - TL Lascannon, Missile Launcher, DROP POD

 

Advice would definitely be appreciated.

[aekold]

If most of your opponents are marines I would suggest dropping the whirlwinds, they fail to do much damage against marines, despite the lovely long range.

 

I find that 2 vindicators are usually nice against marines. They are a lor scarier then whirlwinds, they take to focus of tour other armour and can easily pop land raiders (very nice against black templars).

 

BTW, why are you giving your long range firepower dread a droppod? If you want to give a dreadnought a pod, give it to the other one. Get him close and personal so that he can use his heavy flamer to take troops out of cover and to get some rear armour shots with the assault cannon.

[Tanhausen]

Quick thoughts (besides what aekold said):

- Dreadnoughts have DCCW (Dreadnought close combat weapon) not Power Fist. I'm sure you just ran through that, but just in case... S10 makes a difference :)

- Libby in TDA, LD 9 if I remember correctly... might not be worth it due to quite lame powers and not effective of a hood. I'd suggest going for a chaplain to attack to the LRC unit or even better, use those 150 odd points to improve your heavy support.

- Whirlwind vs marines... just a quick number, and supposing you hit 8 marines EVERY time (which I doubt will be the case), that would be something like 1 casualty per turn. 85 points was it? for 125, take a vindicator which will obliterate infantry and put pain into armour. If possible, take dozer for 5 points: it sucks getting 1s for DT :P

- If possible, get 1 claws in each termi squad: those Ini 4 attacks are usually golden and give some living space to the fists and hammers.

 

Hope it helps

[breng77]

My initial thoughts.

 

1.) Why TH/SS on Belial, you are sacrificing his Initiative 5 and turning him into a basic termi. Claws are generally best.

2.)I agree with Tanhausen on the Libby, if you want 2 HQ take a Chaplain, otherwise drop him for another Dread.

3.)I also, think our Whirlwind is not all that great, having played it against marines it kills very little.

4.) Lose the drop pod on your dread. Our Drop pod does not come in on turn one so unless you are reserving a lot of your army you will just be losing turns of shooting. Especially with a long range dread. You will want him on the board shooting from turn 1. If you really like having a drop pod put the other dread in it so he can come in close to your opponent and mix things up.

5.) For your banner squad I would look to get a number of Lightning Claw termis in the mix. They gain the largest advantage from the Banner with 5 attacks each on the charge. (especially with a chaplain as they reroll hits and wounds on the charge)

[Hellios]

I use a GKH as a counts as libby might be worth checking out depending on how many points you have... so I have a psychic hood that works...

 

Oh also check when they say latest FAQs if DA get current space marine wargear or have to use their own as thats with the opponents permission and not a proper amendment or clarification... because that changes how effective TH/SS and cyclones and stuff are... which is pretty important for DW.

 

Oh I know what you mean about number eQualiZers with Whirlwinds... although my personal varient (if FW allowed) is Death storm drop pods! Not sure how good they will be against marines as others have said...

 

Also will you be on a 6 by 4?

[breng77]

Oh also check when they say latest FAQs if DA get current space marine wargear or have to use their own as thats with the opponents permission and not a proper amendment or clarification... because that changes how effective TH/SS and cyclones and stuff are... which is pretty important for DW

 

By GW FAQ we don't get new war gear.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure we don't have deathwing missile drop pods.

[RedSarge]

aekold: Well the whilrwinds can pin, but I see your point.

 

Looks like I'll have to buy a Vindicator, as I never bought one.. have too much other stuff :P

 

The Drop pod belongs to the CC Dred, Brother Ares, not the TL Lascannon one, sorry 'bout that.

 

Tanhausen: Yeah DCCW.. LOL.

 

A Chaplain is a real good idea! Thank you. I like Hellfire for libby's though, it adds a lot of flavour to a game of 40k with my DW.

 

More CLAWS eh?

 

breng77: I usually run Belial with TH/SS because he likes hammer time! I have 2 Belial models, one has SB & Pwr Wpn

 

Hellios: A pair of Whirlwinds make winning against hordes a heck of a lot easier. On a 1:1 numbers. DW is .superior

[aeren]

Yeah an int-chaplain in TDA is tough as an old boot, and when you combine him with some LC guys (and maybe that LRC to chauffeur them around in), you pretty much guarantee them getting into combat and trump even the nifty space wolf claws when you get to reroll misses AND wounds. That and his 4 (if charging) I5 hitting on 3's power weapon attacks are fun too.

[breng77]

The conventional wisdom on belial is that with a TH/SS he is a termi who hits a little better, with 1 more attack. Usually people consider claws his best equipment as he gets an additional attack (4, 5 charging, 6 if he is in your banner squad) and he goes at I 5 so he can kill models before they get to strike back (I.e. I 4 marines and such). Especially if you run him in a squad with a chaplian, then you get 11 I5 attacks if they run in your banner squad, and that can really help reduce the number of saves on your termis.

[RayJ]

Making the move from 4th Edition to 5th Edition, the way Deathwing works changes pretty severely. Honestly, a properly built double-wing list was almost unbeatable in 4th Edition. Here are the basic things in 5th Edition that will make it hard on you:

 

Core Rule Changes:

 

#1) True Line of Sight

Area terrain no longer blocks line of sight to things on the other side unless the terrain's mass physically blocks that line of sight. If your opponents' models can see your units, your units can be shot. What this means is that your terminators will be taking at least twice as many saves as they were in 4th Edition, which means they will die twice as fast. You will need to look out for ways to capitalize terrain and vehicles to block line of sight from things you don't want shooting at you.

 

#2) Cover saves have improved

Models grant cover to their allies much more easily in 5th edition, meaning more models are able to take saves where they would not have been able to before. In addition, the effectiveness of the cover save from terrain has increased a little bit. This means most armies can get a 4+ cover save with little trouble, making it much harder to kill them. This rule really benefits guard, orks, tyranids, and demons most, but marines can benefit from it when facing massed heavy weapons.

 

#3) You cannot consolidate into another close combat

Deathwing are pretty decent when it comes to fighting in close combat. Against most enemy units you can likely kill enough models to wipe or break the squad on the assault. When this happens you get a consolidation move, but you are no longer able to consolidate into base contact with another enemy squad. This means you must plan your charges to not be left out in the middle of the field to get shot by the enemy's units. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but always do what you can to limit the enemy's incoming firepower.

 

Analysis:

Putting #1 and #2 together you will see that marines in general get weaker, as they get shot more often, but cover doesn't normally improve their survivability (most weapons fail to penetrate 3+ armor). Deathwing runs with very few models on the table in comparison to most other armies, so taking twice as many hits can be a problem. Again, use of terrain and vehicles to block enemy line of sight is going to be your only way of reducing enemy shooting.

 

Army Updates:

 

The 5 codices that have come out under 5th Edition have a large arsenal of tools to build redundancy and efficiency into their lists that older codices cannot truly compete with. They put more bodies on the field, and in general each body is more effective (be it through points cost reductions or improvement of abilities and wargear)

 

The metagame is largely marines since 3 out of 5 new codices have been Space Marines. With that in mind, here are the army specific updates you should be aware of:

 

#1) All Marines

Wargear updates such as the Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Shield make enemy terminators much better. Their cyclones get two shots to ramp up their effectiveness, and the storm shield's 3+ invulnerable save at all times means they can take much more of a beating. An enemy unit of assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields is likely the scariest thing you will face, and they will usually roll over you in close combat with their superior durability.

 

#2) Tyranids

Tyranids now have means of dealing with transports at range while simultaneously filling the field with a bunch of points-efficient troops. However, very few Tyranid units get assault grenades, and thus when assaulting into cover will go at initiative 1. Tyranids have multiple units now that have power weapons which can also hurt, and most of their multi-wound models have gained an extra wound. However, tyranids have lost immunity to instant death from Synapse, so high strength weapons will quickly dispose of most of their warriors and other similar units.

 

#3) Imperial Guard

IG have a tank for almost every role, and the ability to spam out 12-20 vehicles in a 2000 point list. Combined with orders, lots of special weapons, and a close combat blob unit capable of dealing a lot of damage, these guys will be hard to beat with Deathwing. Maneuvering to limit the amount of tanks that can fire on you is gonna be necessary.

 

#4) Blood Angels

Blood Angels have fast vehicles galore and will strike quickly on your flanks to hit vulnerable areas of your army. Work quickly to take out their mobility so you can more easily deal with them. They are likely to have Feel no Pain on the majority of their units which will cut the effectiveness of your anti-infantry shots in half.

 

#5) Space Wolves

Thunderwolf Cavalry have an impressive ability to charge models that are 24 inches away from them at the start of the turn. Combined with multiple wounds, storm shields, and a natural toughness of 5, these guys can get really scary really fast. It's easy for someone who hasn't played against them to be caught off guard by the charge distance even when they are fully versed on the rules. 24 inches is a lot of ground to be able to cover (6 inch move, 1d6 extra run movement, and a 12 inch charge range). A single one of these guys can cripple or destroy a Deathwing terminator squad. Most players run multiple squads with 1 or 2 models in the squad. Each squad can have a single special close combat weapon such as lightnign claws or powerfist, but all models in the unit have rending attacks.

 

That is just some generic information, but I think it is going to be the most useful to you since you haven't messed around with 5th Edition yet.

[Tanhausen]

Redsarge, you are one lucky guy: you got replies from some of the best DA lists:subforum posters/experts.

 

So now... we expect a battle report no later than monday 9 am ^_^

[RedSarge]

First off, thanks for the post RayJ! Wow, thanks for the time.

 

1) Thankfully I already play with TLOS. The way my gaming group plays is only vehicles and monstrous creatures blocked LOS at the appropriate height level (1,2 or 3) according to the 4th Ed codex.

A bit silly sometimes as in 4th Ed a Defiler could hide behind a Rhino. ;)

 

I hear there are 4+ cover saves in abundance so getting shot at 'twice the amount' might be a bit over an overstatement.

 

2) Yeah my 2+ saves and low model count do not benefit as much as a horde would benefit. Less they're using heavy weapons on my DW and Tanks. Vehicles CAN get COVER SAVES now, correct!?

I usually navigate my DW carefully to avoid foot slogs and long 'no man's land' periods, as that will kill my army.*

 

*This is where the new 'RUN' should come in handy!

 

3) I have to watch carefully for this.

If I accidentally THINK I can consolidate into models, even for a minute, I will end up getting rapid fired/assaulted because of it. Could cost me the game.

 

As for 'taking twice as many hits' due to TLOS - since I have been playing custom TLOS I think I can survive this.

I plan on using TWO Land Raiders to help screen my army in case of low terrain or deployment blunders!

 

Update: The LGS is OUT OF Vindicators! No point ordering in any unless the post works on weekends? ;)

 

 

 

Army Updates:

+Codex SM+

I am aware the CSM Raiders carry more (12?) and Cyclone launchers fire twice.

 

The 3+ Invulnerable TH & SS Terminators are what I really need to comprehend.

When I first read the above in codex Space Marines.. I thought it was a printing error! lol.

 

I have been told to AVOID THEM, simply AVOID the broken mass of hammers and shields.

 

Could I not use the same wargear, with permission according to the recent FAQ?

 

 

+Nids+

Warriors < Thunder Hammer, I don't think there are any Nids playing sadly.

 

+Imperial Guard+

Sadly no guard either, though I have a 2K army. Two slightly accurate/accurate Whirlwinds should even them out nicely. :P

 

+Blood Angels+

I have to watch for the things you listed, CC is where I need to take them on my terms!

 

+Space Wolves+

Yikes!! I have heard and even read a little about these smelly dogs!

I have to make sure I get to attack first with some re-rolls to wound! And crush them under adamantium tracks as often as possible, regardless of what trinket they might be wearing.

I find however, that my TH&SS squad holds really well with 4+ and then strikes back, and usually slaughters what they hit.

 

AS for 5th Ed, I have played ONE game of 5th Ed. using my TAU vs Eldar (1700pts- victorius slaughter) and that's it. darn...

emperor protect

 

 

Tanhausen: I noticed my good fortune! I will definitely get a Batrep for my fellow Calabanites, hopefully VICTORY all around!**

 

 

** Else UTTER defeat to the last stubborn man and last bolt round.

[the jeske]

if you want a psychic hood then take a naked GK GM . str 6 power weapon that goes through eternal warrior , table wide psychic hood and guy is in termi armor , so can join termi assault squads.

[Hellios]

Army Updates:

+Codex SM+

I am aware the CSM Raiders carry more (12?) and Cyclone launchers fire twice.

 

The 3+ Invulnerable TH & SS Terminators are what I really need to comprehend.

When I first read the above in codex Space Marines.. I thought it was a printing error! lol.

 

I have been told to AVOID THEM, simply AVOID the broken mass of hammers and shields.

 

Could I not use the same wargear, with permission according to the recent FAQ?

 

As I said you should ask the TO that way you get to play the same every game and in a tourny I wouldn't count on people allowing you to use the new wargear without the TO saying you are allowed to use it.

 

Also about the Whirlwinds I know they are great equalizers and I use Deathstorm drop pods for the same reason (D3 Whirlwind shots at every unit with 12) when FW is allowed. What I was saying is if you think 90% of the armies are marines well marines are not really horde armies... maybe if you get really scout heavy or wolf heavy armies it would help a bit... but if people are meched up which is the norm even my Deathstorms have minimal effect and they are better than your whilrwinds on the first turn against marines in power armour or better.

 

If you come aginst orks, nids or non-mechanized guard then great.

[RedSarge]

Well.. I played two games and won NONE and lost NONE. (and it wasn't a draw) Why!?

 

The Tournament was a complete waste of my time and patience. First off the "judge" if you can call him that, was not familiar with the 5th Ed rule set as you would think a judge SHOULD be. He was BIASED towards favoring my first opponent, a guy who is such a terrible person to play against that he should stick to rolling dice alone, in his basement like the TROLL he is.

 

That might seem harsh but let me explain. His army was THIS ARMY & B&C Thread very nicely done by GMM studios but in the hands of a complete prick who only angers the local players.

 

Right off the bat we went over the table and decided what the cover/terrain would be, like any normal two players AGREEING to a game of 40k with ONE ANOTHER!

 

After some snide remarks and low key insults I responded "You're clearly not here to have a fun game are you?"

He did not reply, and this is what follows.

As it seems my opponent was more concerned with snide remarks, telling me I will fail ALL my saving throws, acting pompous and agreeing with RIDICULOUS outcomes the "judge" gave him.

 

 

Example - during one point on my first turn, I moved up my Crusader and disembarked my Terminators.

I then fired upon a Rhino (Repressor proxy) which had a weakened squad of Blood Angels tucked up against it.

Immediately my opponent is up in arms about getting a cover save, I debate this because there was only one model beside the exit ramp and I don't believe Tanks get a COVER SAVE from friendly troops.

 

The "judge" races by shouts (it's like a barn in there, so everyone is shouting!!!) and says 3+ Invulnerable!

"HE GET'S A 3+ INVULNERABLE"

 

The floor "judge" (NOT the Tourney organizers!) hovered around our table ALL GAME! Almost in my way most of the time!

I should NOT have to constantly ask the "judge" to move so I can get LOS or measure.

It WAS BIASED! BIASED towards trying to make this prick of a 40k player win...

 

What a load of, luckily I have my 5Th Ed rule book so I was able to read up and see for myself on these rules questions. There was NO SAVE of any kind, take your lumps, in this case my opponent (who shall go unnamed) wanted nothing more than to be a jerk. These types of things were a constant, draining me of all fun and instilling in me ONLY THE FURY AND WRATH OF THE LION!

 

He was notorious for it, so much so that I was happy I was not playing against him as he was not attending, until apparently last minute he was there. So I was on a last minute basis pitted against a complete jerk, who I have played against once before during an apocalypse game.

 

IT DID NOT END WELL, he showed up last minute, with under 3K pts and complained when I wasted his forces!

It was not fun for both sides.

 

 

A word of caution, if you find yourself playing against someone who makes the game that you play FOR FUN, AND FOR ENJOYMENT into an argument match, RUN! It's not worth it.

 

 

In short having to constantly reference the WACKY 5th edition changes slowed the game down, and on TURN 2 the HERESY WAS COMMITTED!~

 

My opponent, who had until then only spewed snide remarks, complaints about my playing style* and continued to ROLL HIS DICE WITH NO CARE TO IF I KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING! Basically playing with himself, might as well.

It was Turn 2, my Deathwing were JUST getting stuck in, with favor for my side with three objectives.

Blood Angels held two, and I contested the other.. he says "I can't take this! I Forfeit!"

 

The Tournament organizer who again is biased towards this prick, walks by the table, looks at the objectives and says.

"Blood Angels hold two, one contested. Blood Angels major victory"

 

<_<!? You can just QUIT when you are going to lose/ have objectives and that's it... you win! :cuss! I will NEVER bother going to tournaments held by those halfwits again. I didn't bother fighting the ruling as by that point I just wanted to quit this sham of an Ard Boyz tournament... this was not an Ard Boyz tourney and the rate people were REDOING entire movements was stupid. I'm talking move, disembark, pivot.. then oops I didn't want to do that. (aka needed to figure something out = cheating) EMBARK, move else where.... ridiculous.

 

 

 

++++++++++++++

My second game was against Tau, a cool player but I just didn't have anything left so I played 2 lousy turns where I was distracted by the previous heresy to 40k. I sadly forfeit the game and packed up... WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT. ;)

 

 

*I like to pick up the dice, say my weapon/attacks, then make sure my opponent it playing attention before I roll.

My group generally allows ONE redo per game.

 

Example: that is you can move a tank and then move it somewhere else instead, that's what we call a redo.

We play very professionally in that a move is a move, like chess! The way they moved units was absurd.

[Tanhausen]

Unlucky.

 

At least, now you know what tournament not to go to in the future :)

 

That happens from time to time... and you either just let it go or pack your stuff. If you are lucky enough the judge had no clue of how to run a tournament... you might be able to talk to him.

 

To give you an idea, in my last tourney, the TO said:

 

game 1, bases, maximum 25 points (5 mine, 10 yours, 10 if I hold both)

game 2, anihilation, 10 point for every 250 points I killed of your army, +20 if 100%. Max 100 points

game 3, 5 bases, 2 points per base, so max 10 points.

 

I pulled aside the TO and asked him how was it possible that if I wiped somebody in game 2, and did NOTHING in the other 2, I could win the tournament. 4 or 5 more people sided me (in a 16 person tournament) so he finally made every game 100 points.

 

Anyway... its better to know what to expect when you go to certain tournaments :)

[Hellios]

That judge needs to look up the meaning of forfeit... even if had the objectibves 5-0 in his favour and it was turn 5 but a dice hadn't been rolled to end the game and time wasn't up and you hadn't been tabled... a forfeit means that player loses... and at least should be given a minor victory although I think a major one would be better.

[grandfathertesla]

I'm sorry but that just sounds like a complete load. Are you telling us EVERYTHING that happened, honestly, and not just what would benefit you?

[breng77]

@gradfathertesla: My question to you is are you somehow involved? It just seems more odd to me that your first post on the forum is to call someone out. He had a bad tournament experience. It happens, and I have heard similar things from others in the past (though never had such an experience) If you are not involved, why do you care if his side of things might be skewed?

[Dusal]

Hello, my name is Dustin, the ;) player in the aforementioned post.Well.. I played two games and won NONE and lost NONE. (and it wasn't a draw) Why!?

 

The Tournament was a complete waste of my time and patience. First off the "judge" if you can call him that, was not familiar with the 5th Ed rule set as you would think a judge SHOULD be. He was BIASED towards favoring my first opponent, a guy who is such a terrible person to play against that he should stick to rolling dice alone, in his basement like the TROLL he is.

 

(That's me)

 

That might seem harsh but let me explain. His army was THIS ARMY & B&C Thread very nicely done by GMM studios but in the hands of a complete :D who only angers the local players.

 

(Just bought it, wanted to play it in a friendly no prize monthly tourney. I told everyone there who painted my army since it got a lot of compliments.)

 

Right off the bat we went over the table and decided what the cover/terrain would be, like any normal two players AGREEING to a game of 40k with ONE ANOTHER!

 

(He actually started by asking if the hills steep sides should be difficult or not, then I said steep difficult but you can walk up the ramps. We agreed, the rest was a river and some trees, cover saves out of the rule book.)

 

After some snide remarks and low key insults I responded "You're clearly not here to have a fun game are you?"

He did not reply, and this is what follows.

As it seems my opponent was more concerned with snide remarks, telling me I will fail ALL my saving throws, acting pompous and agreeing with RIDICULOUS outcomes the "judge" gave him.

 

(Actually he didn't say that at all, and i would like him to quote the snide remarks I gave him since i don't rember doing any. I'm actually pretty sure when I was going to fail all my armor saves because my main army is daemons and I can only pass 5 ups.)

 

 

Example - during one point on my first turn, I moved up my Crusader and disembarked my Terminators.

I then fired upon a Rhino (Repressor proxy) which had a weakened squad of Blood Angels tucked up against it.

Immediately my opponent is up in arms about getting a cover save, I debate this because there was only one model beside the exit ramp and I don't believe Tanks get a COVER SAVE from friendly troops.

 

(This player had a 5 squad of termies, with 4 being in the SIDE arc of the rhino, being being in the rear. On my turn I had deployed a squad of blood angels through the rear covering it against Land raider Las cannons. He said he gets to shoot at the rear since all of them can see the rear, I said no since majority are at the side they shoot the side. i said fine you can shoot the rear but since i have a squad blocking the rear I get a save then. A volunteer said if you want to shoot the rear you can but then he gets a 3 plus cover. The player did not agree so the volunteer went to get the judge to make a ruling. It was that simple. After this the Judge stationed a volunteer at our table.)

 

The "judge" races by shouts (it's like a barn in there, so everyone is shouting!!!) and says 3+ Invulnerable!

"HE GET'S A 3+ INVULNERABLE"

 

(He did not shout anything)

 

The floor "judge" (NOT the Tourney organizers!) hovered around our table ALL GAME! Almost in my way most of the time!

I should NOT have to constantly ask the "judge" to move so I can get LOS or measure.

It WAS BIASED! BIASED towards trying to make this prick of a 40k player win...

 

(This was his attitude the whole game and the reason a volunteer was stationed at the table.)

 

What a load of, luckily I have my 5Th Ed rule book so I was able to read up and see for myself on these rules questions. There was NO SAVE of any kind, take your lumps, in this case my opponent (who shall go unnamed) wanted nothing more than to be a jerk. These types of things were a constant, draining me of all fun and instilling in me ONLY THE FURY AND WRATH OF THE LION!

 

(My name is Dustin, I was nothing but cordial as you can ask the three judges who were by our table the whole game. once again he talks about how angry he was and how I was derailing his fun. See Perris, Erik and Eric, Regina, SK)

 

He was notorious for it, so much so that I was happy I was not playing against him as he was not attending, until apparently last minute he was there. So I was on a last minute basis pitted against a complete jerk, who I have played against once before during an apocalypse game.

 

(Actually we have played against each other numerous times, and apparently the reason you were pitted against me was that 3 days before the tournet you said you had not played against me in some time and wanted to play someone of a higher skill level than your usually opponent, who is a modeler and hobbyist, not a gamer)

 

IT DID NOT END WELL, he showed up last minute, with under 3K pts and complained when I wasted his forces!

It was not fun for both sides.

 

(I showed up last minute in an apocalypse game, yet had phoned the store that afternoon saying I got off work 30 minutes before start time, so would they please save me a space for 2500 points of deathguard. They did, it was why there was a deployment zone free of anyone else when I showed up. I actually had fun that day, and I don't not remember you wasting my forces, I remember being banebladed 4 times in one turn from two different players wiping out most of my army, and I complained that chaos did not have baneblades, since this was the apocalypse release event and I could not justify buying titans from forgeworld.)

 

 

A word of caution, if you find yourself playing against someone who makes the game that you play FOR FUN, AND FOR ENJOYMENT into an argument match, RUN! It's not worth it.

 

(This was why I quit the match, so I agree with your statement)

 

 

In short having to constantly reference the WACKY 5th edition changes slowed the game down, and on TURN 2 the HERESY WAS COMMITTED!~

 

(...ok)

 

My opponent, who had until then only spewed snide remarks, complaints about my playing style* and continued to ROLL HIS DICE WITH NO CARE TO IF I KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING! Basically playing with himself, might as well.

It was Turn 2, my Deathwing were JUST getting stuck in, with favor for my side with three objectives.

Blood Angels held two, and I contested the other.. he says "I can't take this! I Forfeit!"

 

(The judge stationed right beside us, apparently so close you couldn't move without him being in the way, confirmed I said I am rolling difficult for this rhino, rolled the dice, moved the unit. After this you, who was watching me across the table stated "I didn't see you roll difficult terrain" Judge stated "Yes, I watched him roll it right in front of you." I rolled them right in the middle of the table in a clear spot. If you had favor for 3 objectives, how come you contested 1 and I held two with no unit with 18 inches of them. I was clearly not having a good time so when the floor judge walked by again attracted by "Redsarge" arguing with the volunteer over me rolling difficult, I said I couldn't take this anymore and am going to forfeit. He said then that this game is over.)

 

The Tournament organizer who again is biased towards this prick, walks by the table, looks at the objectives and says.

"Blood Angels hold two, one contested. Blood Angels major victory"

 

(Because after what he saw and how you were acting he decided it was over and asked where the objectives where. I had one, you were contesting one, I had the one in your zone.)

 

:P!? You can just QUIT when you are going to lose/ have objectives and that's it... you win! :cuss! I will NEVER bother going to tournaments held by those halfwits again. I didn't bother fighting the ruling as by that point I just wanted to quit this sham of an Ard Boyz tournament... this was not an Ard Boyz tourney and the rate people were REDOING entire movements was stupid. I'm talking move, disembark, pivot.. then oops I didn't want to do that. (aka needed to figure something out = cheating) EMBARK, move else where.... ridiculous.

 

(My main army is DOChaos, my previous is Tyranids, and first was all infantry Deathguard. I told him going in to this I am not used to the new to me rules of vehicles, so moving a BAAL PREDATOR AROUND to see where i could get the best shot on a unit from my opinion. then saying i had to go back since I forgot to deepstrike is apparently ridiculous. After deepstriking I immediately moved the predator to where I had it.)

 

 

 

++++++++++++++

My second game was against Tau, a cool player but I just didn't have anything left so I played 2 lousy turns where I was distracted by the previous heresy to 40k. I sadly forfeit the game and packed up... WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT. sad.gif

 

(This match also had a volunteer watching it, my second did not. His third match he walked up to the table, looked at his opponents army and said he forfeits then walked out of the store.)

 

 

*I like to pick up the dice, say my weapon/attacks, then make sure my opponent it playing attention before I roll.

My group generally allows ONE redo per game.

 

(When you are clearly watching the game and i clearly state what is going on, then you say you did not watch me do it, how am I supposed to know you were not paying attention?)

 

 

Example: that is you can move a tank and then move it somewhere else instead, that's what we call a redo.

We play very professionally in that a move is a move, like chess! The way they moved units was absurd.

 

(So if I do not take my hand off the unit I can move it around? Ok thats pretty much what happened. And the fact that you houserule something in doesn't mean that the store where we play has to follow your rules. This was supposed to be a fun tourney, you were the only player that went out of their way to make it not so. And you should know that a lot of people from that tourney read these boards since 90 percent of the players there at the tourney play space marines, including the judges you talked nothing but tripe about the whole post.)

[Isiah]

Well you've both had your say but the topic is now closed as I can't see this ending in a good place ;) . Guys, don't wash your dirty linen in public as this isn't the forum for it.

 

 

Cheers

I