5 Man Devastator Squad in Razorback

[The Dark Avengers]

Okay, Imagine.

 

5 Man Dev. Squad, 150 point

-4x Heavy Bolters

 

Dedicated Razorback, 40

-Twinlinked Heavybolter

 

for 190 point you get 15x Str 5, AP4 at 36" shots can ruin most Light Infantries day.

 

Good Idea?

[thade]

My official rating of this unit is "meh".

 

Most light infantry is going to be hiding in transports, and a Dev squad is a great way to get a smattering of missile launchers on the field (to deal with said-transports). I seldom put my Devs in a transport...because they are heavies (move-or-fire) and if they're moving, disembarking, whatever, they are not firing for a turn. To minimize that, I always try to deploy them in cover and leave them there (defended by the rest of my army).

 

A dev squad with all HBs deployed into cover for the game would in fact work well against foot-slogging horde armies (the rare Green Tide, for instance) but that's an exception. Frankly a tactical squad in a Rhino has more fire power for roughly the same points...and you can give the squad a flamer and a HB, free of charge if you really want. They are also far more mobile, as they can disembark and/or move, and rapid-fire.

[Jackelope King]

Okay, Imagine.

 

5 Man Dev. Squad, 150 point

-4x Heavy Bolters

 

Dedicated Razorback, 40

-Twinlinked Heavybolter

 

for 190 point you get 15x Str 5, AP4 at 36" shots can ruin most Light Infantries day.

 

Good Idea?

No.

 

Heavy Bolters sit right in the land of "red-headed step-child" in the Marine armory, just like Plasma weaponry. S5 AP4 isn't great. It has a decent rate of fire, but lacks the S and range of an Autocannon (36" is just too short on a static squad in my mind.... you need those extra 12" to be worth it). I played against a gunline army this week with my Bikers this week. The heavy bolter squad, after three turns of shooting, managed to kill two Bikers. The Missile Launcher squad did far, far more damage. And look: same cost, better range, better S, better AP.

 

These red-headed step-children as I called them definitely still have a place on the battlefield: when they provide cheap, extra shots on a platform that benefits from them, slap them on (the Dakka Predator is a prime example here). Extra shots, and durability against being rendered irrelevant on a glancing hit is key.

 

All the arguments I hear about heavy bolters now being great because they give three shots against Dark Eldar vehicles is a laugh and a half. S5 shots don't worry armor 10 too much. They only start to get nervous at S6 and S7. I play Tau, and killing off a vehicle with S5 shots against rear armor is clutch, but it's also rare. 1/6 chance to pen, 1/3 chance to kill the vehicle. Oh, and those Dark Eldar have Night Shields, which means your range is a pathetic 18". Good luck while the Dark Eldar are reveling in their schadenfreude as they chow down on your flanks.

 

I'm less concerned about the value on a Razorback, but with Razorbacks, if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. You've already sacrificed capacity, so you should at least get some nice firepower out of it, and as I said above, I don't feel like the heavy bolter cuts it. For me, that means either Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers or Las/Plas turrets.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

A Rhino, on the other hand, might work better for you. Take a full squad of Devs with two each of your choice of anti-tank and anti-infantry guns (LCs and HBs? MMs and PCs? whatever). Combat squad them with one set standing still and shooting, and the other half in the Rhino. Both of those heavy weapons in the Rhino can shoot out of the top. In this case, you could put the combat squad with two lascannons in cover and plink armor and long range, then put the other squad with heavy bolters in the Rhino and have those guys shoot out of the hatch. You lose firepower over the TLHB Razorback while moving, but if the Rhino's static for a turn, you actually have a higher damage output since both HBs can fire.

 

Is it a good tactic? I can't say, I've never tried it. It's not ohmygodborken!!!11!one!, but it sounds solid enough.

[ShinyRhino]

Don't waste your points on the Razorback. The thing that makes a 4x Heavy Bolter Devastator squad work is the 12 heavy bolter shots hitting all at once.

That's 12 shots at 36" range, nine at BS4, and three at BS5 (via the sergeant's signum), plus any meatshield bolters you have firing. That much dakka downrange wounds plenty of stuff, and forces massed armor or cover saves. Spill a unit out of a transport with a tac squad missile launcher or something, then focus fire with the Devvies' heavy bolters. You'll average about 5 or 6 wounds per volley, which forces allocation and threatens small units' special and heavy models.

 

The lone twin-linked heavy bolter on the Razor maxes out at three hits, and one or two wounds on a T4 model. You might snipe something if you get lucky, but it's not worth designing a squad around. There's a reason Razorspam armies all go for the las/plas or twin-las Razorback. Heavy bolters have to be fielded in force in a unit to be truly useful, due to their middling S and AP.

[Hellios]

If you want cheap I always think missile launchers are the way to go... frag infantry... krak wraithlords... pop those rhinos... got nothing better to do? may as well try and glance to death that land raider...

 

If you have more points I also feel Plasma cannons are worth a look but only if you need what they give over missile launchers... (once again decent at light vehicles and will kill infantry) but are best for killing heavy infantry.

[BearersOfSalvation]

Well, for that 190 points I can get 2 AV13 vehicles fring 4 S7 AP4 shots plus 12 S5 AP4 shots, or two with S5 AP4 pie plates that can hide with 20 points left over. Marine devs are just so expensive, I can't see spending that kind of points for shots that don't really bother vehicles in a general list. 4xML seems like the best config for marine devs, but I'm still kind of skeptical of spending that amount of points.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

5 man devastator with Laser cannon and multi melta, 24+ str 9, 24- str 8 and str 9.. shot of your choice is hitting 2+ for what? 175?

or a pair of Whirlwinds for about the same cost..

 

now x4 HB with a PF+ a chappie with a powerfist in a turn 1 drop pod dead center of the board, is going to Have to be dealt with, This is the proper application of the Chappie in the 5th

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The proper application of the Chaplain, who is designed to increase the assault abilities of a squad, is to sit in one spot and make a squad of Devastators Fearless? You're crazy. He doesn't give the squad enough kill-power in CC -- even with a CC-tooled Sergeant -- to make the squad less of an inviting target for assault units ESPECIALLY if you're planting them in the middle of the board. I can think of plenty of assault units that will chew them up before they ever get to even fire those heavy bolters -- SM bikers, anyone with a jump pack, meched Banshees, Harleys with decent fleet rolls, any DE in a Raider. This is a horrible tactic, dude.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

XXXXX

XXXXX

XXXXX

y y2 y y

y y1 y y1

y1 z y1

 

x=drop pod

y= devastators

y1=deva w/hb

y2= deva sgt w/pf

z+ cappie Pf

 

you use the pod as a cover device to limit base to base contact.

the unit is designed to dictate the tempo/tarpit/speed bump the middle of the board.

th/ss x8 in a LRC it is not

"Is it a good tactic? I can't say, I've never tried it.". by Deus Ex Ferrum regarding the use of combat squading (fragile) and leave 5 out and 5 in...Can you say the same thing about this tactic? but you so easily dismiss it this because...?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Because even as large as a drop pod is, its not going to limit base to base contact like you suggest. Land Raider-borne squads, jump infantry, bikers, infiltrators -- these things will jump into assault in the first turn to prevent those guns from ever shooting. And I can think of better, cheaper units to drop mid-board as a speed bump.

 

The OP wants to use HB-heavy Devs, but his initial thought did not seem to me like a good idea. I suggested one way of doing so that seems tactically sound. I never tried it and I've never tried your proposed tactic either. . . but in my opinion, what you are suggesting is a good way to get zero shooting out of a unit that is specifically designed to shoot.

[rat of vengence]

Sorry mate, I would love to have a unit like that dropped in front of me, because it is 3 kill points, and a couple of hundred points that is never going to achieve anything. The chappie is at his best leading an assault (not receiving it) and the only round of fire you would get you can't because deploying counts as moving.

 

The only Dev squad I would consider in the current edition is the 4 missile squad, but I can get better bang for buck with Predators. I used a 3/4 man missile squad in just about EVERY 4th ed game, and I have used it maybe 3 times since.

 

RoV

[thade]

The only Dev squad I would consider in the current edition is the 4 missile squad, but I can get better bang for buck with Predators. I used a 3/4 man missile squad in just about EVERY 4th ed game, and I have used it maybe 3 times since.

 

I disagree a bit with this, RoV, if only because I have terrible luck at keeping my tanks alive. :lol: That said, I do agree that - in a competitive environment - missile launchers are the way to go. I recommend filling the unit out and combat-squadding it (or, if you have the slots, take two 5-man squads each with 2xML) so you can split their fire a bit if you need.