How do you handle your opponents assault termies?

[jbarket]

Hey guys,

 

I'm play testing my forever opponent tonight. I'll be testing my 1850 BA list, and he's testing his newly modified all terminator list. We'll be playing through once with him using a SW list and once with a DA list, so it's either all teleporting terminators or all drop podding terminators. He's reasonably split between assault and tactical.

 

My list is a fairly standard DoA list. I just put a ton of fast, assaulty bodies on the board and get in their face. The problem is, of course, that assault terminators hit harder than RAS. I have points to play with and can invest in some HG or DC, but don't know what to bring.

 

How well should I expect RAS to do if they've got FC? That means on the charge I'll be swinging first and I'll have an easier time hitting and wounding than he will. Terminator CC weapons all deny FNP, so that isn't going to help me at all in assault.

 

Even though it'll limit my mobility, am I better off keeping them as 10 mans? On the charge, that means significantly more attacks from FC, which hopefully means wiping them out before they can hit back.

 

Oh, and one last note. While I'm obviously trying to be prepared, I'm looking at this as an exercise in making my list capable of handling things like this. I don't want to tweak the list just to wreck his face, so spending every point I can on PW or on shooty bits that will force them to take their invulernable save, or anything else I wouldn't consider taking in an all comers list is out.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I would say don't take anyone special if there are a lot of Termies in his force. S5 Power Weapons will eat Terminators unless he's got Storm Shields, and those you just have to drown in the many attacks of your regular Assault Squad members. Remember also that Plasma and Melta weapons ignore their Armor save so again, unless they have Storm Shields, very effective. All of these options are available to your regular assault squads. You also might consider Power Weapon-heavy Vanguard Veterans or Honor Guard; in either case, he will be unable to assault you on turn 2 (excepting the Space Wolves' Drop Pod Assault, which shouldn't be too hard to avoid), and you can simply massacre him at will.

[jbarket]

Uh wow, I was going to make a huge tactical mistake until I read your post. I should keep absolutely squat in reserve. Whether he DPs in or teleports in, if I'm on the board, I'm guaranteed to get the charge on him.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Not necessarily true! It would be no strange thing for him to keep at a difficult range or else scatter to a difficult range. Also, if he is playing as the Space Wolves, he could use the Drop Pods to get the jump on you or at least weaken you (Deathwind launcher, anyone?). However, you are in general correct that you'll probably be more likely to assault if you start fully deployed. I learned the hard way to not Reserve some hard-hitting units and deploy everything else--at the very least, it doesn't fit my playstyle.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you want to design a unit to take them out I would go with Vanguard in a landraider, load them all up with stormshields, lightning claws and one or two power fists. You will hit first and reduce their save to a 3++. They are both similar in cost.

 

0b ;)

[TrentL]

I've found that RAS get really tied up against Termies... big time.

 

More power weapons etc maybe but not a regular ras even with FC it does nothing.

 

I'd favor Melta shots and Plasma on him personally. Or VV's with Storm Shields and power weapons.

 

I tend now to play my friend always with a Dev squad of plasma cannons ;)

[Redo]

Regular Termies; I do not find them too hard to eliminate. They are usually on the board and will go down to a torrent of fire and amour savinfd attacks.

 

Assault Termies; They can be a little tricker as they usually come in a Landraider and you need to effectively pop that vehicle first and then take out those termies before they charge you. I find I have to coordinate my attacks quite wisely. A RAS or some other units to blow the Raider. Then I use the HG or Vanguard to back up. I like the HG as they usually carry a spare meltagun. (Just in Case) Once the Raider is popped I charge in. If I am lucky I am going to soak the Assault Termies with some boltpistol fire before I charge in. Assault Termies usually have an accompanying character, so my Termie assault squad will likely have a chaplain in order to get those re-rolls. Another reason why I like the HG is becuase you cannot join a IC with VG and insert with Heroic intervention. My Chaplin takes on regular termies, a Powerfist HG will be allocated to his IC and the rest of the HG and RAS take on the rest. Usually with the weight of attacks the termie squad is destroyed or down to the terminator who may kill one marine. The enemy IC will knock of a marine or two and then in the next turn they will either die before striking back or take out at best a few marines.

 

Sounds expensive but really is about the same price as their LR, Termie and independent model, yet you will come out (mostly) on top. On a side note; I find that Assault Termies go down to hordes real quick. 30 orks or a something similiar.

[Red Fury]

It would be no strange thing for him to keep at a difficult range or else scatter to a difficult range. Also, if he is playing as the Space Wolves, he could use the Drop Pods to get the jump on you or at least weaken you (Deathwind launcher, anyone?).

Maybe, for Tactical Termies. Even then JP equipped squads have an 18" assault range and that will be hard to land outside of and be able to fire his storm bolters. For assault termies, he wants them as close as possible to get into combat. Use your speed to stay away as best as possible.

Remember, Drop pods cannot shoot the turn they show up (bolter or DWlauncher). Although the DW launcher does make the DP something to worry about...

load them all up with stormshields, lightning claws and one or two power fists

Yup, the best weapon loadout in the marine armory is probably a SS plus a relic blade, since we can't get relic blades lightning claws are a very close second. Even though Termies get twin claws and TH/SS way cheaper, the claw + SS is arguably superior.

There is no cookie cutter/ easy answer, they're Terminators after all!

Against Assault termies you probably want to try to stay away if you can and just keep shooting and shooting, he has to roll ones and twos eventually. Against tactical termies, assaulting with a couple PWs (versus 5) is good enough as rolling 5++ is a lot harder.

 

-Fury

[jbarket]

In the end, I didn't find assault termies too difficult, but you have to charge in with enough at once to spam them into oblivion. Swinging first with enough attacks seems like the best way to handle them. If you don't kill them on the charge, however, it's not a pretty situation. They get to swing back, and then when you come around again, no more charge bonus/furious charge/et cetera.

 

In the end, I had one of my three 10 man RAS left (mostly intact) and he had lost all 4 of his termie squads. The game was incredibly close, but I was squeaked out a victory.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

if they are twin LC assault terms throw a furioso at them

if they are TH/SS terms I leave them alone and use my speed to keep away from them and kill the HQ/Troops/Fast Attack/Heavy options they have brought, and once I've made a mess of the rest of his army I might try to focus long range firepower on his point sink just because.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Sanguinary Guard yet. They eat Terminators, period. At least against the Tactical Terminators they will shine, and against the rest they aren't too bad as well.

 

Attach a Sanguinary Priest to them and equip them with Banner and one Infernuspistol, let them roll up the field. Terminators may be strong, but against this unit, they will fall like grains to a scythe, and probably no one will hit you back, if your roll on average.

 

The key is to pop one of them on range with the Infernus Pistol, and even if that fails, you have an Powerweapon only unit(well, except the Priest) that strikes at init and S 5.

 

One unit should be enough the kill all of his tactical terminators, turn after turn of course. I'd stay away from the assault guys with Stormshields, though. Leave them for special weapons like Melta- and plasmaguns.

 

 

Snorri

[Darth Ghandi]

I play DW and i must say you opponent is making your job rather easy.

 

If he uses DW assault or pods he will come in nice bite sized chunks.

So just concentrate your fire/assault on the chunks.

 

I would NEVER spread my DW army out like that, since i am always out numbered and need every bolter brought to bear asap.

And splitting my forces in a big no no since they will be overwhelmed quick.

[BrotherMoses]

Fire your bolters with the Emperor's blessing to guide your shots. Know that the Emperor abhors the current stormshield rules. Fleeting terminators are warp spawned daemons that must be purged from their defiled tactical dreadnought armor.

[Zeller]

I had an idea this morning.

 

Astorath, Priest, SG w/ banner, and if you're feeling like it throw in the Sanguinor for that area +1 attack. Yes, Sanguinor has to fly side by side but that's not the point.

 

Asotrath on the charge gets 3, +1 for charging, +1 for banner, and +1 for sanguinor's aura. That gives Astorath 6 S7 power weapon attacks that reroll hits and wound on a 2+ with no 3++ permitted on the enemy TDA. Then of course the remaining SG PW attacks would mulch the squad as well. Overkill but Astorath could do it with some friends.

[Leonaides]

with no 3++ permitted on the enemy TDA

I thought he just made them re0roll any successful saves...?

 

How to deal with Termies? Avoid them until you are in a position to absolutely smother them. At best, they can keep pace with you (6" move, 6" run vs 12" jump if you're playing as a DoA list). leave him running around behind you while you kill hte rest of his army, and then turn back and wipe him out if you need/want to. If you ahve any longer-ranged firepower then you might want to lob a few shots his way (as long as you're safely outside charge range though). Look at it like this - he's spotting you 200-odd points for the game. Deathwind pods are not too worrying - cant fire the turn they arrive and only have a 12" range - and if he DS's too close and is unsupported then you can either jump away, or focus on his termies of they are too unsupported and/or there're not too many of them. Line up a shooting party, then charge into them with as much as you can and drown them in attacks.

[Zeller]

You're right about the invulnerable saves.

 

Assuming there are no high AV threats remaining that the rest of your weapons can't handle then you can always kite/shadow the squad with a MM attack bike squadron.

 

It's too bad GW decided aircraft capable of flying at high altitudes and dropping parachuting guardsmen and jump packing marines are somehow low enough to the ground for joe blow TH marine to take a few swipes. I know I always fly at most 3 feet from the ground when trying to impress my friends...and be reduced to a mindless servitor. If this weren't how GW setup the rules then you could just sit there in your storm ravens and fly around throwing rocks and soda cans at him.

[SamaNagol]

Also, for reference Astorath ALWAYS strikes at S6 in combat if using his power axe. The weapon is St6, not him so Furious Charge only affects his initiative

[Crynn]

If you want to design a unit to take them out I would go with Vanguard in a landraider, load them all up with stormshields, lightning claws and one or two power fists. You will hit first and reduce their save to a 3++. They are both similar in cost.

 

0b ;)

 

Why would you take Vanguard which you pay for heroic intervention on then not use it? Why not get an honor guard with priest which would be much more cost effective and includes a priest so would stirke first with charge over LC termies as well? You call me opinionated in other posts, well yes maybe I am but at least I tell some truthes. You are advocating that making a vang vet squad with your load out is comparable in points to a termie squad??? Your load out on claws and all storm shields with 2 fists??? 115pts + 3xLC 5 x SS 2x Fist = 335 points how is that comparable to 200? Take an HG on the other hand and for 325 points you get 3xLC 1x Fist 4X SS banner = 320 pts and on charge you have 3 more LC attacks and only 2 less fist attacks except that you have FC and a FNP with priest that gives bubble and for less points. On the charge you will kill slightly more than the vanguard. Or you could just take a unit meant for a landraider which already comes with fists claws and storm shield being Assault termies, take a priest with a power weapon 4 termies with claws 2 with hammers and shields.

That comes in at only 305 pts and will have more surviving members than the vanguard if they assault a TH/SS termie squad and have a much larger chance of wiping them out before the strike with 16 LC attack and 4 WS 5 power weapon attacks all at str 5 then the hammers compared to 9 LC attacks plus they have the same ammount of hammers to fists as the vanguard. Seriosuly twice as much dmg from the assault termies + better armor saves still two shields, FC and FnP bubble from a priest so provides more army benefit and less 30 less points. Call me opinionated but I can live with being an a#*hole over incompetent.

 

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Sanguinary Guard yet. They eat Terminators, period. At least against the Tactical Terminators they will shine, and against the rest they aren't too bad as well.

 

Attach a Sanguinary Priest to them and equip them with Banner and one Infernuspistol, let them roll up the field. Terminators may be strong, but against this unit, they will fall like grains to a scythe, and probably no one will hit you back, if your roll on average.

 

The key is to pop one of them on range with the Infernus Pistol, and even if that fails, you have an Powerweapon only unit(well, except the Priest) that strikes at init and S 5.

 

One unit should be enough the kill all of his tactical terminators, turn after turn of course. I'd stay away from the assault guys with Stormshields, though. Leave them for special weapons like Melta- and plasmaguns.

 

 

Snorri

 

I completely agree. I'm not normally one to praise the sang guard past their beautiful miniatures but if your trying to kill termies they would be perfect. even those 10 initial bolter shots have a goof chance to kill a termie before they charge! With a banner and priest with claw, they will decimate a tac termie or LC termie squad on the cahrge and won't even fare too bad against a SH/SS unit. 3 dead from SG and 1 from the priest and not a bad chance of killing another with bolters and infernus pistol on the way in you could kill them all before they strike and on average theyll only attack back with 1 SH/SS model which kills on average just under 1 sang guard model, well say one but you see how the sang guard will come off very well against all types of terminators!

 

These Boys would be something to look at really closely 'jbarket'. Also i realize you dont want to taylor your list but the sang guard can still be usefull if played well. They aren't my everyday choice but if you have even one rhino chassis in your DOA army you can run them behind that so they dont get shot on the way into combat. Think of them as a mini Meph squad. lots of dmg and can absorb small arms fire but hide them and keep them from those nasty ap2 ranged weapons.

 

SO like Snorri said pretty much. Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Corby]

Hey guys,

 

I'm play testing my forever opponent tonight. I'll be testing my 1850 BA list, and he's testing his newly modified all terminator list. We'll be playing through once with him using a SW list and once with a DA list, so it's either all teleporting terminators or all drop podding terminators. He's reasonably split between assault and tactical.

 

My list is a fairly standard DoA list. I just put a ton of fast, assaulty bodies on the board and get in their face. The problem is, of course, that assault terminators hit harder than RAS. I have points to play with and can invest in some HG or DC, but don't know what to bring.

 

How well should I expect RAS to do if they've got FC? That means on the charge I'll be swinging first and I'll have an easier time hitting and wounding than he will. Terminator CC weapons all deny FNP, so that isn't going to help me at all in assault.

 

Even though it'll limit my mobility, am I better off keeping them as 10 mans? On the charge, that means significantly more attacks from FC, which hopefully means wiping them out before they can hit back.

 

Oh, and one last note. While I'm obviously trying to be prepared, I'm looking at this as an exercise in making my list capable of handling things like this. I don't want to tweak the list just to wreck his face, so spending every point I can on PW or on shooty bits that will force them to take their invulernable save, or anything else I wouldn't consider taking in an all comers list is out.

 

 

Treat his army like Demons. Go full reserve , Don't deepstrike in , Come on from your table edge. He'll pod / teleport in and then you roll on and hit the weakest flank. You'll have the advantage of mobility over him , so you can dance circles around him the rest of the game.