How to deal with twilight fans?

[Voltaire]

Hi I'm a mechanized wolf player who's losing his mind. and games... against bloody gloss angels. Over the past three days I've fought against stormhawks, droppod dreads and scouting baal preds with my usually trusty longfangs and Plazerbacks. I'm running out of ideas to deploy with minimul risk and maximum efficiency. He keeps blowing up my fangs and razors turn one with a dreadnought. Whats the best way to deal with this while a Baal predator is in my face. Or better yet how do you deal with three thunder/stormhawks filled with assault troops?

[Thunderhawk3015]

By not using Razorbacks. Make sure your units are in cover, target priority on the baal's first if they have flamestorms. Otherwise stormravens need to die. Blood claws are a great buffer unit to hold up an assault. Drop Pods hate the psychic power(don't remember the name right now) that basically makes a lot of stuff take difficult/dangerous terrain tests. Wolf Priest/Wolf Lord is a good combination with some blood claws to make them difficult to move.

 

Short version is to try using different thing aside from your normal army list.

[breng77]

I'm not really sure how drop pod dreads are taking out long fangs on turn 1. I don't see them having a weapon load out that would achieve this unless you are just rolling horribly, It is really hard to say what you should do as I don't know what you have done, what point level you are playing at, what is in each list, etc...

[Spacefrisian]

I'm not really sure how drop pod dreads are taking out long fangs on turn 1. I don't see them having a weapon load out that would achieve this unless you are just rolling horribly, It is really hard to say what you should do as I don't know what you have done, what point level you are playing at, what is in each list, etc...

 

Lucius pattern droppods can explain that otherwise....

[breng77]

so if you are playing with units outside the core rules, then it would make sense and my response would be to abuse the same.

[Voltaire]

He droppods next to my naked fangs at 1000pts and shoots then with flamestorm cannons, meltas, magna grapples, and everything else they have. He kills em through sheer wounds.

 

 

I dont understand why you wouldn't use razorbacks though, they're great for added firesupport. Or am I missing something?

[breng77]

So your long fangs are close enough to him for him to use flamestorm cannons on turn 1? I mean if you are in cover a Magna grapple and Melta gun kill maybe 1 long fang and then you turn around and blast the dread with 4 or 5 missile launchers, which should kill him.

 

You could also focus on killing his troops as at 1k points if he has multiple baal preds and dreads he does not have a whole lot else.

 

You could also consider parking Razorbacks around your fangs to make him unable to get close. His dread might kill a razorback but assuming you have meltas on your GH squads, they can get out and pop the dread.

[the jeske]

wait. does that mean your using a single unit of LF , because that is bad. you should always try to run at least 2 units and 3 if possible[i know not possible at 1k point games].

+ unless he always wins the first turn how does he always get his baal in range ? because he aint coming from reservs on turn 1 , he cant get in range without scout+first turn [and even then it aint obvious because RL range is still greater then the range of flamstorm +double pred move].

[breng77]

Exactly if you can deploy away from his Baal, or put something between the 2 (he must stay 12" away from you with his scout move.) Also, You could get 2 small LF squads at 1k points (a 5 man squad with 4 ML is only 115 points, so even with 2 you have 770 points left for the rest of your army (which is 4 las plas Razor back GH with Meltas, + 150 points left to spend, so after HQ that gives you about 50 points for other up grades)

[Wolfeslad]

Keep all in reserve, let him move then deploy accordingly. its not pretty but its effective

[breng77]

actually reserving everything is a bad idea with long fangs. They cannot shoot the turn they come on meaning that in a 5 turn game they will only get to shoot 3 times at most (which is better than losing them I suppose, but if you have to move more than one time to get them into position than it could be very costly. BA are fast enough to make coming in from reserve very costly with a Razor wolf list. If he had say 2 LF squads, 4 Razorback squads and a commander, he would likely get in 1 LF and 2 RB on turn 2. Of which only the RB could fire. More than likely these would be handled quickly by the entirety of his opponents army on top of turn 3. Then the second half of his army would come in and likely suffer the same fate. RB SW are not a good army to keep in reserves. Better to build a solid list take your lumps and retaliate.

[Grey Mage]

He droppods next to my naked fangs at 1000pts and shoots then with flamestorm cannons, meltas, magna grapples, and everything else they have. He kills em through sheer wounds.

 

 

I dont understand why you wouldn't use razorbacks though, they're great for added firesupport. Or am I missing something?

I think your missing the part where they blow up and those big guns just paint 'target' all over them.

 

If BA were heavier in my local meta Id be playing DPs.... but anyways.

 

Big 10 man squads with rhinos will help- keep your long fangs in back in cover, use the rhinos to marchblock the DP and Baal from the front, and givem a pair of meltaguns to add to the threat value.

 

Back it up with a 3rd/4rth unit of GHs with a pair of plasmaguns and a pistol also in rhinos for targetting his infantry- make him work to get those charges off on you. Of course, thats larger point values....

 

Leave the razorbacks at home. Consider spending the points youll gain on a dreads, more boots, and a second unit of fangs.

 

At 1k-

Rune Priest- Tempests Wrath, Living Lightning- 100pts.

10 GHs- 2x PG, PF, Rhino- 220pts.

10 GHs- 2x MG, PW, Rhino- 205pts.

Typhoon- 90pts.

Iron Priest- TWM, 4x CWs, WTN- 165pts.

5 LFs- 2xML, 2xLC, Las/plas Razorback- 220pts.

 

Might be something to try.

[Spazmonkey]

And lets not forget the stinking BA blood Talons, STR6 Dread melee weapon that gets an additional attack for every wound it inflicts. A Blood talon Dread can easily eat through a unit of long fangs in one round.

[Grey Mage]

And lets not forget the stinking BA blood Talons, STR6 Dread melee weapon that gets an additional attack for every wound it inflicts. A Blood talon Dread can easily eat through a unit of long fangs in one round.

Yes, but it has to get there first. They cant assault out of a DP, so you should have time to blow it to hell and back if you need to. Its trickier if they have a Stormraven, but youll be wanting to kill that anyways eh?

[Grimtooth]

It just sounds like you are trying to play the Razorwolf spam list and don't know how. You have been given solid advice on deployment and structuring your force around 10 man GH packs instead of your easily overwhelmable 5 man stuff so make the changes instead of making excuses.

 

Playing them in sunlight helps too.

[Grey Mage]

I havent seen excuses from the OP Ramses, just questions- no need to be snippy with them eh?

[Voltaire]

Here's what I'm running:

 

RunePriest: Wolf tooth necklace - Runic armor - Chooser of the slain - Beastslayer

 

Greyhunters - x10 - melta - flamer

Greyhunters - x10 - melta - flamer

 

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - x3 missile

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - plascannon - Heavy bolter

 

Rhino-Dozer blade

Rhino-Dozer blade

 

Razorback- Twin-link plasmagun/Lascannon - Dozer blade

Razorback- Twin-link plasmagun/Lascannon - Dozer blade

 

Total 1000pts

 

 

Tickle me emo is running something like this:

 

 

superchappy/Reclusiarch w/sanguinary priest

 

Assault squad with PW

 

8man Death Company all with PW & Priest

 

Landraider

 

Drop pod

 

Furioso dreadnought

 

Attackbike w/Multi melta

 

Baal predator with flamestorm cannons and Heavy flamers.

 

 

 

I know his army is really bad overall however he insists on playing KP games, my army has difficulty competing with that. Also a brief explanation of my fighting style. I'm a very aggressive gun :) which means my longfangs are only shooting half their maximum range alongside the hunter support. This makes my priest great for running about aiding in both shooting and assault. However he's not worth against deathcompany.

How do I kill that landraider? He hides it at the beginning of the game then runs forward as I deal with his dread.

Also can the dreadnought use a psychic power and shoot its other weapons?

 

 

I dont see why using razorbacks with longfangs is a bad idea. They provide substantial fire support while toting my fangs along, and give add firepower when empty. Plazerbacks are great.

 

But I've been wrong before.

[breng77]

Well looking at your list there are a number of things that I would suggest fixing.

 

1.) You are spending way too many points on your HQ for a 1k point match (what is that like 150ish points for a lot of stuff that is not that usefull, find a role for your priest, pick his powers, etc... The beast slayer vow is not worth it most of the time especially against your opponents list) I would keep him cheap (just base points maybe with the chooser and that is it)

 

2.)Focus your GH squads (2 flamers in 1 2 melta in the other, I woudl go 2 melta in both actually if you are able) I would also probably take 9 + a wolf guard with PF, pick up some upgrades here instead of on your Rune Priest, that way they are flexible and can handle your opponent in the assault.)

 

3.)Your second long fang squad is illegal, all LF except the squad leader must take a heavy weapon. That squad is also unfocused, you have 3 weapons with very different roles. I would generally stick to all ML in each squad (if you have them). If not drop this squad and use the points elsewhere.

 

4.) Drop the dozer blades, you have a 1 in 6 chance of having a problem with difficult terrain, it is just not worth the points (especially on the Razorbacks.

 

5.)Razorbacks for Long Fangs are not bad...at higher points when you have points to spend, at this low a value you would be better off with another squad of GH.

 

My advice would be something like this

 

HQ

Rune Priest (chooser, melta bombs)

 

Elites

3 Wolf Guard w/ Power fist and combi-melta

 

Troops

 

2 x 9 Grey Hunters (melta gun) in Rhino

 

1 x 5 GH (melta gun) in Razorback (las plas)

 

2 x 4 Long Fangs (2 Missile, 1 Las) one squad with a las plas razorback

 

This uses alot of what you have listed and keeps your razorbacks, however, you have 3 GH squads, and they are better equiped to deal with various tasks (the inclusion of a WG in each squad gives you extra CC punch)

 

As for your opponent only playing KP, if that is a problem refuse to play unless the mission is decided randomly, as that is the most fair way to do things.

[the jeske]

RunePriest: Wolf tooth necklace - Runic armor - Chooser of the slain - Beastslayer

this is probably the worse build RP I have seen yet. why give him hth upgrades when he has too few A to actualy be realy good at hth. If you want to do hth take a WL . otherwise keep the RP cheap and give him psychic powers . SW have very good ones [as in more then two being good which is huge].

 

Greyhunters - x10 - melta - flamer

Greyhunters - x10 - melta - flamer

I will never understand this set up out side of sob [which can make a single flamer better and dont realy have other options too run] . what do you need 2 flamers for in a SW list ? you have extra attacks [compering to tacs] and counter attack . if horde tries to attack you they not only hit after you [no frags for orks/nids etc] , but also you have better sv/str and number of attacks then them .

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - x3 missile

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - plascannon - Heavy bolter

10xRL . you can start thinking about 3xRL2xLC set ups when you A dont play razor builds [but you do] B you already have 3 LF squads[which you cant fit in to 1k pts army].

Rhino-Dozer blade

Rhino-Dozer blade

I know its only 35 pts , if you plan to play a razor build then dont mix it with normal mecha . you drop the size of one of the GH squads , change the weapon set up on the other[for 2xPG for for low ap shots] and buy either 2 razors or a hvy bolter and a las razor.

[Voltaire]

this is probably the worse build RP I have seen yet. why give him hth upgrades when he has too few A to actualy be realy good at hth. If you want to do hth take a WL . otherwise keep the RP cheap and give him psychic powers . SW have very good ones [as in more then two being good which is huge].

 

He's a cheap answer for dealing with enemy IC's in assault. While at the same time he can use numerous powers to mess with enemy transport and deepstriking units. I don't see why he's a bad idea when he can take armor saves for the

 

I will never understand this set up out side of sob [which can make a single flamer better and dont realy have other options too run] . what do you need 2 flamers for in a SW list ? you have extra attacks [compering to tacs] and counter attack . if horde tries to attack you they not only hit after you [no frags for orks/nids etc] , but also you have better sv/str and number of attacks then them .

I guess its tough trying to understand why people would make multi-purposed GH squads. Also you only replace the bolter when you buy a special weapon, and therefore sacrifice no attacks. Taking a free melta and flamer doesn't reduce your odds of survival. It increases them. Or am I confused?

 

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - x3 missile

Longfangs - x5 - Lascannon - x2 plascannon - Heavy bolter

10xRL . you can start thinking about 3xRL2xLC set ups when you A dont play razor builds [but you do] B you already have 3 LF squads[which you cant fit in to 1k pts army].

When did I get three longfang squads? And why does everyone think I'm trying to spam razorbacks when I'm only using two for effective transport of my heavy support? Also why is it a problem using transports with heavy weapons and infantry with heavy weapons in the same list?

 

I'm also attempting to be as WYSWIG as possible. Which means I only use what I have in the heavy weapon squads. I noticed after posting that there were several issues in my list that beg for editing. I'll do that as soon as possible. However I'm intrigued by the reasoning of the board on this, please tell me how you would deal with the aforementioned bloodangels, and explain why.

[breng77]

He's a cheap answer for dealing with enemy IC's in assault. While at the same time he can use numerous powers to mess with enemy transport and deepstriking units. I don't see why he's a bad idea when he can take armor saves for the

 

Except he is not good at doing this. (unless you happen to be lucky) Most IC go before him and have power weapons, so if he is in BTB contact with an IC, the IC will kill him as he has not Invunerable save.

 

I guess its tough trying to understand why people would make multi-purposed GH squads. Also you only replace the bolter when you buy a special weapon, and therefore sacrifice no attacks. Taking a free melta and flamer doesn't reduce your odds of survival. It increases them. Or am I confused?

 

The problem is that if you have a melta and a flamer you are almost never using both to their maximum potential. If you shoot a tank the flamer does nothing, and if you shoot a horde the same is true for the melta. You need to have more CC potential in your GH squads, either by taking a fist in your squad, or as I recomended taking one on Wolf Guard and putting them in the squads. These attacks will ignore FNP on your opponents troops so it will help against BA.

 

As to the razorbacks, they cannot really transport your Heavy support for very long, as you cannot shoot from inside them. If you wanted to keep things cheap, perhaps swich to rhinos with only 3 LF in each (2 Heavy Weapons, maybe ML and Las each) and put a HK missile on the Rhino, that way you could shoot out the top of the Rhino, and keep your LF safe inside. (infact you could do this with 3 LF squads if you had 5 rhinos (do one with 2 PC).

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask, but you need to look to change something in your list if it is not working. If you want more specific help, try posting a list of what models you have available so that we know what there is to work with.

[breng77]

superchappy/Reclusiarch w/sanguinary priest

I assume the chappy is with the Death company in the raider, look to stun the raider, or imobilize it with Las cannon, or melta fire and then leave it alone, for that turn.

 

Assault squad with PW

 

8man Death Company all with PW & Priest

 

Landraider

 

Drop pod

 

Furioso dreadnought

 

you could reserve against this so it comes in against nothing, or let it come in and shoot a rhino, then kill/immobilize it with missiles, melta, lascannons.

 

Attackbike w/Multi melta

Shoot this with a Missile and it will die. take it from someone who has a ravenwing army, lone attackbikes hate krak missiles

 

Baal predator with flamestorm cannons and Heavy flamers.

 

If you are in tanks this tank is useless

 

Lastly like I said before your opponent is playing you in just about the only mission his army can win, force him to play a random mission, this will hurt him quite a bit. Otherwise go out and buy 2 land raiders, stick your guys in them and call it a game :( If I was running KP only against this list I would go with.

 

Rune Priest

Njal

 

2 x 5 GH w/ Melta

 

2 x Land Raider

 

Let him go first, reserve everything, when I come on Kill his one attack bike, and come on far away from his dread. Shoot the land raider with TLLC, until it stops, and then he loses b/c he cannot hurt your land raiders, and Njals crazy effects hurt his army. Maybe after a few games that he cannot win, he'll decide maybe you should play some other missions.

[Legatus]

How to deal with twilight fans?

And this coming from the werewolf faction? Honestly? :yes:

[Thunderhawk3015]

I would lose the Plasma/lascannon combo and replace them with assault cannons if you really want the ability to tackle everything out there. Rending with 4 shots at full range is going to make your opponent ideally roll more dice which is more chances to fail saves or force invuln/get extra ap. It seems like your opponent has build his whole army around one unit, if you can draw that unit out so you can shoot it up then your going to have a much better chance of smoking your opponent.

 

Legatus, unlike in twilight, here in the fang we drink ale, fight with each other, have generally have a blast. Having not seen or read those disasters of books and wishing I never saw the trailers in theaters I think all the wolves here can say that we are nothing like those pansies who call themselves "werewolves".

[Marshal Wilhelm]

How to deal with twilight fans?

And this coming from the werewolf faction? Honestly? :D

 

Zing! baby, zing! :lol:

 

*high fives Legatus* ^_^