StormRaven

[TheMouth]

So if you bail out of a storm raven and do that "deep strike" bit that you need to do...if you have a homing beacon on the Storm Raven do you scatter? Or do you follow the normal rules for homing beacon and deep striking...since it specifically states that the units "deploy as if deep striking" ...or do you ignore the homing beacon?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Homing beacon is used, as the unit deploys as if DSing.

[Zeller]

Let's say the raven comes in from reserves. Can you pop the beacon that turn and deepstrike the marines after the raven has moved on then?

[TheMouth]

Let's say the raven comes in from reserves. Can you pop the beacon that turn and deepstrike the marines after the raven has moved on then?

 

Well it does state that it needs to be on the table before the deep striking unit, and the raven deep striking, would happen first. Then the troops in side deep striking next...so i guess you could. That is if the stormraven troops are allowed to even use the beacon to begin with.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Yeah, it all works quite fine. You could drop pod a beacon and use the pod to guide the rest of your DS'ers down that turn.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The beacon must be on the table at the start of the turn for it to work... So no you cannot deepstrike the SR first and then all other deepstriking squads coming in from reserve get to use it.

[TheMouth]

but if the raven is already on the table with the homing beacon the squad inside could still use the homing beacon correct?

 

The beacon must be on the table at the start of the turn for it to work... So no you cannot deepstrike the SR first and then all other deepstriking squads coming in from reserve get to use it.

 

Forgot to quote this...We all know how it works, the question(s) are as following :

 

1. If troops dump out of Storm Raven can they use homing beacon since the count as deep striking?

2. If raven deep strikes at the beginning of the turn...deep striking happens before movement...can units inside the storm raven use the homing beacon?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1. No.

2. No.

 

The Stormraven must arrive one turn ahead of other deep striking units.

[TheMouth]

1. No.

2. No.

 

The Stormraven must arrive one turn ahead of other deep striking units.

 

Yes we all know that.

 

I will break this question down more.

 

storm raven is on table.

 

Jump squad wants to get out of storm raven.

 

They count as deep striking.

 

Storm raven has beacon.

 

Do they use beacon?

 

Sorry if you didn't understand that the two questions where different scenarios...different events.

 

 

If the start of the turn is the movement phase, and reserves aka deep striking...happens at the start of the movement phase...wouldnt units in the stormraven be able to deep strike after the stormraven comes down then? :D

[River Black]

The answer is still No.

 

The squad inside of the storm raven is not deep striking so cannot use the Beacon. They are deploying out of the SR that just finished deep striking. The same rules applies to guys that come down in a DP. The drop pod deep strikes and the guys inside deploy after it lands. The only reason why they perform as though they had deep striked is because they count as deploying out of a vehicle that moved.

[Grey Mage]

The answer is still No.

 

The squad inside of the storm raven is not deep striking so cannot use the Beacon. They are deploying out of the SR that just finished deep striking. The same rules applies to guys that come down in a DP. The drop pod deep strikes and the guys inside deploy after it lands. The only reason why they perform as though they had deep striked is because they count as deploying out of a vehicle that moved.

1) No, any models in a deep striking transport count as deepstriking. Everything that affect DSing units affects them as normal for such units.

 

2) To answer TheMouth, no to you aswell. The Locator Beacon specificly states you must have it on the field at the begining of the turn for it to be used. Thus, the turn the Storm Deepstrikes it wouldnt have been on the table at the start, and thus theyve yet to turn it on or whatever.

[vonny]

but you could start with your storm raven on the table, move 24", and use the locator beacon to precision drop the assault marines bailing out of the storm raven, right?

[Morollan]

but you could start with your storm raven on the table, move 24", and use the locator beacon to precision drop the assault marines bailing out of the storm raven, right?

 

As counter-intuitive as this may seem, yes.

[synack]

The rule says "as if they were deep striking onto that point".

 

If the storm raven moves 24" and the unit jumps out, they can use a locator beacon, on the storm raven or on some other unit near by, to not scatter, since they are effectively deep striking.

 

You know whats fun?

 

Dropping a vanguard vets squad and a dread. Dread pops target (or machine spirit melta from SR), vanguard squad uses heroic intervention to hopefully charge what was inside.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Vanguard cannot use HI when dropping out of an SR.

 

0b :)

[Morollan]

Vanguard cannot use HI when dropping out of an SR.

 

Looking at the HI rules, that is correct. It says they must arrive from reserve by deep strike. The Stormraven is not in reserve when it uses the Skies of Blood ability.

 

The SoB rules also state that you cannot assault when disembarking in this way.

[TheMouth]

but you could start with your storm raven on the table, move 24", and use the locator beacon to precision drop the assault marines bailing out of the storm raven, right?

 

As counter-intuitive as this may seem, yes.

 

 

Thats what I have been asking.

 

As well as asking about the raven deep striking then bailing the troops out the same turn....<--- that I kinda of figured was a no.

 

The answer is still No.

 

The squad inside of the storm raven is not deep striking so cannot use the Beacon. They are deploying out of the SR that just finished deep striking. The same rules applies to guys that come down in a DP. The drop pod deep strikes and the guys inside deploy after it lands. The only reason why they perform as though they had deep striked is because they count as deploying out of a vehicle that moved.

 

 

So if the Storm Raven is already on the table, books it, and the guys bail out, and are considered deep striking , you are saying they are not deep striking?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Some people are obviously going to dispute that.

 

0b :wacko:

[shatter]

It's a little similar to Gate of Infinity. Even though only the mechanic of DS is being invoked, people still want the whole list of wargear associated with DS being available. This is gray area rules that can cause heated debates.

 

Would I use it? No. DS mechanics is not the same as DS from reserve.

[Chairman_woo]

Seems like regarding the embarked squad using a ravens locator beacon either:

 

A. Locator beacons work just like they would for any Deep strike deployment, if you have a beacon pod or scout bike squad in position a squad disembarking via skies of blood will get the no scatter in 6". The beacon on the stormraven (assuming it was on the table at the start of the turn) does not appear to be in anyway different rulewize to the beacon on the pod. I can find no special caveats relating to Locator beacons or Skies of blood.

 

B. Squads disembarking via skies of blood do not actually count as deepstriking in any way, and can basically only do what is specified in the Skies of blood rule.

 

 

Prescident already exists with gate of infinity regarding the drop pod locator as I understand it, insofar as people do not seem to take issue with it very often. (and it has not been FAQ'd away yet). The exact wording of the rules seems to be in favour of option A) and RAI I do think locator beacons on pods etc. were intended to be useable like this. However units using their pairent transports locator beacon seem like it might be an oversight.

 

Given stormravens are hard enough to get the use out of as transports as it is I cant see this being too big of an issue to many people, but it does make a 15pt upgrade considerably better, and much as I wish it was, I dont think the designers intended this to work. But that said its not like you can drop anywhere you want on the flightpath, the beacon will only work for the 6" around where it finishes up so arguably only 1 unit will have the space to make use of it in a turn (as you cant "Skies of blood" infront of the raven, only along the path it has just traveled).

 

definateley something to run past your opponent first, some people will really take exception to you dropping Dreads in their face with no risk. But if they are ok with it this could make the basis for a viable dread and raven based army (a concept Ive played with before, but I never relalised the raven might be able to use its own beacon).

[TheMouth]

to be a jerk gamer...i dont think it matters if they opponent is okay with it, the way it is written it is legal to do. Will I do? Sure, why not...its legal. :lol: Dont forget you can still bail out of the raven using the skies of blood and it doesnt need to be behind it...it needs to be along the flight path...that even means the END of the flight path. So you could potentially get an extra 4" out of "disembarking" via skies of bloody goodness if you have a homing beacon.

 

The chance you run of losing a unit via "skies" , i think the beacon trick is well worth it...i mean if i have a 12 man squad and one guy cant be deployed properly the entire squad is destroyed...yeah ill stick with my homing beacon trick. :P

[shatter]

Skies of blood stupidly has the word 'deploy' in it. It's clear that despite this they are, no matter how you look at it, already deployed and are disembarking.

 

If the rule said "May disembark as if deploying via DS from reserve," then I wouldn't argue one bit, but it doesn't.

 

Gray rules, dude. I'd make you roll 4+.

[TheMouth]

If the rule said "May disembark as if deploying via DS from reserve," then I wouldn't argue one bit, but it doesn't.

 

Gray rules, dude. I'd make you roll 4+.

 

 

What the book has :"...deploy the squad as if it is deep striking..."

 

 

So, you are on my side then! :mellow:

[bulley]

Why you would put VV in a SR is beyond me - DoA + HI is more than enough, why crutch them or another unit by using the SR? Put Assault Terms or a big RAS in there that can benefit from the ultra fast deployment!

[Chairman_woo]

The exact wording is:

 

"Nominate any point over which the Stormraven moved over (good english there mr Ward) and deploy the squad as if it were deep striking onto that point"

 

"As if it were deep striking" is somewhat grey I concede but a 4+ing dosent seem appropriate here. This is something you either agree to be able or not able do before the game I think. I'm in favour of being able to do it but for largely pragmatic reasons, I'm not going to argue a cast iron RAW here as there are prescidents both ways.