dswanick Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I'm considering a unit of TWC, and am trying to decide on a leader for them. Canis Wolfborn is the obvious choice, however I don't run many Fenrisian wolves so his Saga of the Wolfkin, Lord of the Wolfkin, and Wolf King rules are kind of wasted. I'm leaning towards either a Wolf Guard Battle Leader or a Wolf Lord. When kitted out the same as Canis they end up looking like this : WS/BS/ S/ T/ W/ I/ A /Ld/Save Canis Wolfborn - 5/ 2/ 5/ 5/ 3/ 5/ 5(6)/ 8/3+ - 185pts Battle Leader - 5/ 5/ 5/ 5/ 2/ 5/ 4(5)/ 9/3+ - 170pts Wolf Lord - 6/ 5/ 5/ 5/ 3/ 5/ 5(6)/10/3+ - 200pts While Wrath of the Savage sounds nice, after consideration it seems like a waste most times because how often does Canis actually get more than 6 models in BtB contact with him? The Battle Leader has +1 Leadership, saves me 5pts with Beastslayer or costs me 20pts with Warrior Born, and can be armed with other than the silly-expensive 2X Wolfclaws - all of which sounds like a good deal to me. However, the Battle Leader has -1 Wound and -1 Attack relative to Canis. This can be overcome by using the Wolf Lord who, for 15pts more than Canis, gets +1 WS, +2 Leadership, can still take Beastslayer or Warrior Born, can have different wargear than the 2X Wolfclaws, and can take a Belt of Russ. So - what have your experiences with Canis been? Is he the indesputeable TWC IC? If you went with one of the other two, would you change his wargear to something other than 2X Wolfclaws? Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 For me, Canis is NEVER used with TWC. If its 1500 points or less, or I'm being cheesy I'll run the WGBL instead of the WL. While the battle leader has one less wound and one less attack than Canis (2 attacks less if you got with a stormshield), he has a better Ld, Can have a better armor save, and he can have an invulnerable save. You can also pick up saga of the warrior born which easily can make up for the lost attacks from Canis. I only run Canis now days with lots of fen wolves, or with an IP and Cyberwolves. Any game over 1500 and the clear winner (for my armies, as YMMV) is the Wolf Lord. Lots of load outs, can always have an invulnerable save and that 3rd wound absolutely can be a game winner. Plus the option for saga of the bear or majesty is always nice in some builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Look I say try them all and see what you like. Personally i dont mind Canis. He has soon cool abilities and has three wounds and is under 300 points. Alot of IC's dont have invun saves... big woop just be careful with him... He is toughness 5 so do what you can to avoid strenght 10 and youll do ok, But as Godhead says I would tend to run him with a pack of fen wolves. I have seen Canis eat Tac squads and Ork mobs... that wrap around ability can be awesome.... He takes a bit more thinking than a 2+/3+ wolf lord thats all.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Canis is discounted for me, not because of his lack of invulnerable save or anything else, but because Leadership 8. He's your man for supporting Fenrisian Wolf armies, but for a pack of TWC, I'd rather them lead by a nice strong leadership 10. Low leadership is their one vulnerability, and getting a Wolf Lord in there shores that up instantly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 OK, thanks guys. On the question of loadout, do you guys have a favorite wargear set that seems to work really well for you? Do you find yourself prefering the Wolfclaws re-rolls over the Frost Weapons +1S, for example? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 On my WL I usually go either PF/SS or WC/SS together with Runic Armour. The WC is better then the FB (a friend mathhammered it to me) against most opponents, and the PF is kinda enough since it is S10. If you're planning on splitting your WL from the TWC pack I usually go with WC/SS just to be able to strike at I5 at reduce the incoming attacks. Got to be careful not to run into a dread or something like that tough. Maybe get him a meltabomb to be sure. - Natanael Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I completely ignore the powerfist these days. I used to run it, but for a few more points you get the thunderhammer which lets you bring someone like Mephiston, hive tyrants, the swarmlord, daemon princes, etc. down to int 1 which means your normal guys have a strong chance of killing him before he gets to attack in second or third round of combat. For like 5 more points you get another layer of protection for your TWC and your lord. After running my lord with a TH and one TWC with a TH, I have completely stopped using the wolf claw, but that's a matter of personal preference and needs of your list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmodai650 Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 For the reasons godhead mentioned I run one of my TWC pack members with a TH/SS combo to give my lord a chance to go first against higher initiative enemies. However, I run my Wolf Lord with twin wolf claws, belt of russ, wolf tooth necklace, and melta bombs. I find the ability to reroll my dice very handy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2545687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 WHy do you run a TWC with both SS & TH? That is a very expensive model who, if he dies, makes you unit a lot more vulnereble. I run mine separate, SS on one and TH on one to spread the risks. - Natanael Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2546391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I run my TWC with 2 stormshields, one on the TH/SS model and one with nothing but the ccw and ss. I do this simply because the TH is the last model I want to die and sometimes you have to allocate hits against it. Since he's the heavy hitter and (if all goes well) the last one alive, I'd like to keep him around as long as possible so I give him a shield to help him out with the heavies who are likely to be hitting him back. I tried running the pack with a SS on a different model. It didn't suit me. I tried running them with just one shield on the TH guy and it didn't suit me. I tried this and haven't changed since. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2546467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 3 TWC: Storm Shields for everyone. 1 TH 1 CCW + Meltabomb 1 CCW Plus Wolf Lord: Runic Armor WTT WTN Frost Weapon Storm Shield Saga of the ??? (usually bear or beastslayer). 2 Fenrisian Wolves 11 spreadable wounds all together, 3+/3++ saves, quite nasty and does not entirely break AND beat your point bank (just beats it around lovingly with a length of rusty pipe). FW is better because this is your "nutcracker" unit, you'll be going after high T models more likely. It's nice to wound more easily, and high initiative is a shame to waste with a TH. If you have points to burn, throw in a WGBL, similarly kitted. Maybe minus Runic Armor, maybe with a TH (but again, high I is a good asset...). OH HI, your point pool just shrank significantly, but the resulting deathstar is just about the killiest thing on the field outside of a titan. A fourth TWC is also an option, but you lose some of the wound spreadability unless you run him naked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2546713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmodai650 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 WHy do you run a TWC with both SS & TH? That is a very expensive model who, if he dies, makes you unit a lot more vulnereble. I run mine separate, SS on one and TH on one to spread the risks. - Natanael The other pack member has a storm shield and CCW, and occasionally a meltabomb. The unit is expensive, but they perform well on the field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2546794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Right, I see your point. I still dont think it is a very good/economic build tough. I run mine either: 1x Regular 1x Meltabomb 1x SS 1x PF or 1x Regualr 1x Meltabomb 1x Bolter 1x SS 1x PF or 1x Regular 1x Meltabomb 1x SS & Meltabomb 1x SS 1x PF Dont bother with the TH much, since the unit in itself is usually overkill anyway. If I get a WL in the pack, he might go with a TH, just for fun. - Natanael Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2547352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Dont bother with the TH much, since the unit in itself is usually overkill anyway. If I get a WL in the pack, he might go with a TH, just for fun. - Natanael I am not convinced about TH for the only I 5 model, since I've sort of paid points for his high initiative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2547370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Just a quick question regarding complex TW; Does a TW with Pistol and SS count as different than one with CCW and SS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2547610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 Just a quick question regarding complex TW; Does a TW with Pistol and SS count as different than one with CCW and SS? Yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2547617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 The only reason to ever use Canis is if you want to have lots of wolf packs. Otherwise go with Battle Leader or Wolf Lord. Which you prefer depends on how you play. A basic WGBL w/TWC, frostblade, and 2x wolves is only 160. That's pretty cheap, and still pretty deadly against most standard unit types in the game. A souped up WL can cost you upwards of 250 pts, but can probably take on anything in the game, and is a squad unto himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2548188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 Lots of good info, guys. Thank you for the thoughts. I'm gonna play around with a couple builds and see what I settle with. I'll post the unit when I get it finalized. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2548339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Just a quick question regarding complex TW; Does a TW with Pistol and SS count as different than one with CCW and SS? Yes. Just remember not to shoot his bolt pistol, since he has none =D I am not convinced about TH for the only I 5 model, since I've sort of paid points for his high initiative. You also pay for his attacks, and his ability to get 3+ to hit with that TH. But sure, it depends on what you think you'll be up against. In a tourney setting I'd get two lords, one with TH/SS to go MC/Tank/Squad-without-good-CC-hunting, and one with WC/SS to go up against marine CC squads and stuff like that. - Natanael Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2548902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Just a quick question regarding complex TW; Does a TW with Pistol and SS count as different than one with CCW and SS? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe you can use this configuration as it states in the codex that the model needs to drop it's bolt pistol for a plasma pistol or storm shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2549102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have not got my book at hand, but doenst it give you a choice? You can buy the SS in two different entries, and as such, it works just fine. I might be wrong tough, since I havent got my book with me. - Natanael Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2549188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Just a quick question regarding complex TW; Does a TW with Pistol and SS count as different than one with CCW and SS? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe you can use this configuration as it states in the codex that the model needs to drop it's bolt pistol for a plasma pistol or storm shield. No as Natanael says there is more options. One TW can swap his CCW for a SS while All TW can swap their BP for it. However as I look upon it now that does mean that I cannot use my TH in the squad so in a way I am still doing it wrong. Oh well.. cut off the BP and put on a CCW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213865-ic-for-my-twc/#findComment-2549253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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