powerfist + chainfist = extra attack?

[thade]

Hey guys,

 

SO I feel almost certain we talked about this before (I think it came up in reference to Dreadnoughts) but for the life of me I can't find it on here. So, here I go. Note that the only codex I've found that allows this is the Spacewolf Codex (I'm very sad to say that I can't do this in the BA dex, nor does the vanilla dex seem to allow it).

 

Recall that "a chainfist is treated exactly as a power fist, but rolls an additional D6 for it's armor penetration value" (emphasis mine). So consider the following theoretical model:

 

Captain (or in this case, a Wolf Lord) in TDA with a powerfist and a chainfist.

 

I think it's clear that if he expects to get the 2d6 armor pen with the chainfist then he can't expect the powerfist to award an off-hand attack; the powerfist in no way counts as a chainfist. However, the chainfist is treated exactly as a power fist...so does that mean that in melee it counts as an idential special weapon for the purposes of getting an additional attack for an appropriate offhand?

 

I am not sure.

[Myxx]

Seems RAW... one chainfist attack or two PF attacks... might not be RAI though...

[Legatus]

These are all descriptions from page 42 in the main rulebook:

 

"A lightning claw is a power weapon and it also allows (...)"

 

"A power fist is a power weapon, and also doubles (...)"

 

"A thunder hammer uses the same rules as a power fist. In addition (...)"

 

Most weapons use the mechanic opf one of the basic special CCWs given in the rulebook. "is treated like" is just anotehr way of saying "is a" or " uses the same rules as". However, the weapon then gets described as having further additional rules the weapon it is based off of does not have, making it a different weapon.

 

E.g. a "power fist is a power weapon", but it also doubles the user's strength and makes him strike at initiative 1. So a power weapon and a power fist really are two different weapons.

 

A "thunder hammer uses the same rules as a power fist". But it also makes wounded models strike at initiative 1 until the end of the next turn, so the rules of a thunder hammer and a power fist are not really the same.

[thade]

Yea, Legatus, I see what you're saying: that by my logic, a model with a TH/PF could have (assume base 3 attacks) three TH attacks and four PF attacks...which is not at all true.

 

Open and shut it seems.

[Isiah]

Yes indeed by RAW they're two different weapon types so can't claim the bonus attack for having one of each. Just because it is "treated exactly as a powerfist" doesn't mean it is one - its just that for convenience sake it uses some of the powerfist's basic rules.

 

Cheers

I