Battle Report - 750pt vs "Astral Claws"

[bulley]

Right just finished up another pre-tourney 750 game.

 

This time I face off against another marine player (urgh). This time the resident fluff master and his Astral Claws, who he runs as count as Blood Angels. Great guy to play and just generally be around, 2nd time I pld him (played 1750 vs his Space Wolves with my Grey Knights).

 

I made some changes to my list previously;

 

Libby - Sword / Shield

 

I normally run Shield and Rage, fancied a change.

 

Sang Priest

 

x5 RAS w/ PW/MG

x5 RAS w/ PW

x5 RAS

x5 RAS

 

x4 Razors - x2 AC's x2 HB's

 

Normally I run x3 squads and x1 Baal no sponson. Also typically had x1 AC x1 Lasplas x1 HB. I want to test double las plas next.

 

Astral "Blood Angel" Claws

 

Captain w/ Power weap and SShield

 

x10 Tacticals w/ML PF (w/ the captain)

x10 Tacticals w/ML PW

x10 Tacticals w/MM

 

Furioso Dread w/ Blood Claws

 

The Pre-Game

 

x5 objectives (on a 4 by 4 table, so was a "dice 5" around the center objective).

Table corners for deployment

 

Scenery was x2 "raised hilly sides", big building in center, then each side had 1 bit of decent cover (baricade walls) and 1 broken aquilla each.

 

I win to go first. Claws do not steal

 

I set up with 1 lead tank (HB) and x2 AC's behind it taking the 4+ cover saves. I purposely setup diangonally away from the baricade cover he has with 1 objective, which I was sure he'd set at least 1 tactical squad w/ ML up in. I then had free run to 3 objectives (mine, the center and far left). I had 1 HB raz sat behind that would go up on the hill, take cover but get pot shots off. This would be a late game 18" mover to get a 2nd or 3rd objective.

 

He does set up 1 squad in the cover on his quarter, and 1 near the center edge of his quarter to move across to his bottom objective. His capt and squad set up quite far forward out of LOS of my tanks, and his dread much the same.

 

The Game

 

I am terrible at remembering exactly what happens turn by turns, so I do beginning/middle/end. The game went 6 turns.

 

Beginning

 

As he didnt sieze I move 12" with all my tanks and fire at his "center" squad, I pop about 3, they dont run. I made sure I'd be out of 12" of his dread. My only worry was his ML's at this stage, but I made sure to put all 3 tanks in a way that I could re-deploy my RAS's behind them on/near a objective or 2 and use the tanks as cover/blocking.

 

In his first turn he ran his MM squad towards an objective, his captain squad towards center, and his dread towards center. He fired off a ML at a tank, but I made the 4+ cover save.

 

In the 2nd turn I manage to drop another marine or two, and redeploy my tanks backwards seeing him move towards me, to make sure MM stays out of 24" and the far ML wouldnt get a clear shot. I thoughti I was well over 12" from his dread and captain. He manages to in his 2nd turn charge my tanks with his dread and captain, where I felt he did a "6" which was really 8, and a 6 through dificult, that should have been 2, but he went 6 anyway". I am rarely one to say, really should have, as if he failed to charge, it would have been game over completely. However he got the charge, and failed to do anything except make it so my HB couldnt shoot.

 

The Middle

 

At this stage he has 1 full squad sat on an objective, his MM squad sat near an objective and his capt right in the middle objective. I have all 4 tanks up and running with everyone still in. This changes I take the lib and SP squads out. My plan here is to see what I can do to the captains squad in shooting, so I fire the 1 HB @ him to try and drop a guy or 2, I think he made armor saves. I fire all the bolt pistols into him and 1 MG and take out 1 guy I think. The AC's fire at his Dread - front armor 13, needing rending, the first fails, the 2nd gets 2 rendings and lands a 1 and a 6 on the damage table after pen'ing. I take some hits on my own guys, but make the saves. Combat charges ensue, this is where I had my 2nd "non-voiced" query of the game, I charge in, making sure to not let my libby or SP's get near his captain via positioning, he "counter charges" and slaps his PF on my SP (moving him 6") and moving his capt about 3" to hit my libby (his capt in PA was on a term base aswell). I didnt think you could "counter" move when charged? Anyway, in combat I fail to hit as much as I thought I would, land a few kills on his now 8 man squad, taking them to about 5, he kills a couple with his capt. From here. I win, but he passes LD, initially I was happy, as I wouldnt get pounded with shooting, but later I was not.

 

In his turn he fires at a couple of tanks, does nothing again, and in combat we whittle down a little bit, I now lose every combat but actually make rolls each turn.

 

On the turn 4 he starts thinking that he may win, as he controls 2 objectives in his back field, and I control none (remember my 2 HB raz's still have people in). I still have 2 AC raz's running around ... I fire off at his squads with HB's and AC's but really dont do much.

 

The End

 

We hit turn 5 now, and I move both HB's onto the objectives, I deploy the squad, then move the HB to contest 1 objective (his MM far left objective), and move the other HB over my far right objective. Right now its 2 control for me, 1 for him and 1 contested, and center un-contested. I shoot at the squads again trying to shift them, but no avail. In the combat his capt finally forces me to lose a LD check and they charge them down, consolidiate towards my RAS's in the open on the objective.

 

His turn 5 he hits one of my AC raz's and wrecks it with a MM. He tries now with his capt and PF to take out my objective controling ras, he takes out 2, I do 1 wound to the capt I think. I stay on the objective, its now - 1-0 me if game ends.

 

It doesnt, and I just reposition some tanks incase of an extra turn. I was going to tank shock his MM away from his objective but realised he was more than 3"'s away so just blocked it, I put the AC and HB over his other objective to contest, and killed off his captain's squad to now control 2 objectives.

 

He calls it in his turn 6, he could have destroyed 2 of the 3 tanks with good rolls, I made sure i had 2 tanks on 1 objective just for that purpose.

 

Recap / What I learnt

 

I absolutely loved the change from a baal to a scoring Razor unit. I traded off having a 3rd "big gun", for a HB but still having a TL heavy 3 str 5 weap paid off well, it put a lot of wounds on him, against T3 or low armor save armies it will be even better. It also meant that in turn 5 and 6 I had 2 scoring units left, opposed to 1.

 

What I hated was my changing of Rage to Sword. Sword did nothing (he took the single str10 on his capt, who made his invul). And if I had rage in that first assault I'd prob have taken at least 1 or 2 more guys out, and that probably would have been enough to break him. If I do swap abilities, its take out shield, and in the first turn smoke the front Raz (HB) and still make sure i get the x2 4+ saves anyway on the AC's.

 

THe other change for running x2 AC's rather than x1 and a lasplas I really liked, but i didnt face any mech, and I know for a fact I may need to face a triple eldar skimmer army, and las vs that may be a must.

 

I really think movement was something I could have worked on. I think in turns 3 and 4 I should have really tried to get rid of the center squad with charging in at least anotehr squad (at that stage would have got FC/FNP) and that prob would have done it. I think I should have really put more shots into the MM squad as well rather than later start to split, but they are marines and even AC/HB's dont aways win the day there.

 

The biggest thing is being more vocal, and notice something more crucial early, he moved then I was like "erm", where as I should have realised he was looking for a charge then said "let me measure that as well" or something.

 

Was a good game, and closer game than it really should have been.

 

This leaves me 3-1 with my BA's in 750 - my only loss vs another BA player in which was my worst game ever, both tactically and rolling wise (failed to glance or pen on any turn!)

[bulley]

Was just thinking on my way back from the gym that he may well have been over 750.

 

The furioso comes in at 125, the capt at about 135

 

x3 squads of 10 man tacticals is going to come in at what just over 500 points, and with a powerfist closer to 530 or 540.

 

He had HW's in all 3 squads so they had to be 10 man, they were free upgrades.

 

Infact vanilla capt, dread and tacticals with free upgrades comes in at 735.

 

I'll bring it up to him.

 

What made me think of it was he mentioned "why dont you add a dread, its only 105" to me, and I knew a furioso is 20 points more, I think he's got SW prices on some stuff mixed up in his head maybe. He won't want to run into the tourney with an illegal list as I'd be the first one to bring it up once a game or position is on the line.

 

Cheeky.

[Leonaides]

Regarding the 'counter-charging': After you move your chargers, he is allowed to move any of his models who arent already engaged in base-to-base up to 6" in an attempt to get them into base-to-base. To stop him engaging your priest with his captain, make sure his captain is already engaged by a normal marine (or even better, a PF armed sergeant who can potentially squish him). This is not 'counter-charging' as the SW rule, but part of the general assault rules.

[Mudpuppet]

Good win brother,

 

This guy sounds like a bit of a chancer to me but meh.

 

Sword did nothing (he took the single str10 on his capt, who made his invul).

 

Could you clarify this for me, how comes your libby only did one hit in what sounded like 2 rounds of combat? Thats brutally unlucky. Also, sword is great against vehicles and one shotting bosses who dont have eternal warrior or high toughness. Sounds like you just didnt get the right situation to let it shine.

 

Mudpuppet

[bulley]

Yeah didnt get the chance to shine. First round of combat failed to hit on 3 of the 4 attacks, and he invul'd the last one (3++), 2nd round his capt went first and knocked off a 2nd wound. I really need to keep Unleash Rage, I'd have cleaned house with x10 RAS + Libby + SP all re-rolling misses in the first round vs 8 tacticals (35+ attacks or something silly, with 12 of which with power weapons), maybe drop the shield instead, 5++ on my lead tank is ok, but its more so I can shoot, in the 1st turn, I could just power forward 18" and pop smoke and make him deal with 3/4 4++ tanks in his face.

 

Yeah for the counter charge I just need to be better at placement then I guess. Still under 2nd/3rd ed rules in my head half the time.

[daboarder]

Not a bad report.

 

However am I the only one tired of regular marines using the BA codex over the regular one, unless your in the most competitive setting there is no real difference in their power. Hell tell your mate to pick upthe new imperial armor and give the tyrant list a go. I dont mind using the BA codex every so often for a change but not all the time......and I've just realized how sidetracked I've gotten

[Redfinger]

Regarding the 'counter-charging': After you move your chargers, he is allowed to move any of his models who arent already engaged in base-to-base up to 6" in an attempt to get them into base-to-base. To stop him engaging your priest with his captain, make sure his captain is already engaged by a normal marine (or even better, a PF armed sergeant who can potentially squish him). This is not 'counter-charging' as the SW rule, but part of the general assault rules.

 

 

In regards to this, sorry to hijack. But it is my understanding that when you do an assault it is closest to closest for each model...meaning my closest model assaults your closest model, then the next closest, ect...in any order I like. If I am correct that may also protect your preist, keep him toward the back.

 

Ashton

[bulley]

That was my understanding, his capt bypassed about 4 or 5 models to hit my libby, and his fist went from his far right (near my libby) to his far left - avoiding about 8 or 9 models in the process.

 

There were a few "dodgey" things in that game, firstly that he was 735 points with zero upgrades, and since he had PW/SS/PF at least - and I am sure some more, he was over. The assault was a question mark for me, I was aware of the "bring the models in" sort of, but did not feel he could move his capt and pf that far, I was sure it was at the very least closest model. His 16" assault pissed me off, but tbh without it, it was game over, but I hate when people do that because I am good at judging range, and that kinda mitigates that.

 

Main things I learned is to keep evaluating each stage, I make a move then evaluate what he CAN do (not what I think he will do) thus when he does or doesnt do it, I am aware that its legal or not.

[bulley]

Not a bad report.

 

However am I the only one tired of regular marines using the BA codex over the regular one, unless your in the most competitive setting there is no real difference in their power. Hell tell your mate to pick upthe new imperial armor and give the tyrant list a go. I dont mind using the BA codex every so often for a change but not all the time......and I've just realized how sidetracked I've gotten

 

I am mixed on this.

 

I run a BA successor which at first glance might not look like BA's but then you see the models etc.. I always threaten to run them as a diff codex but cba right now.

 

It bothers me and it doesnt at the same time. I am not one for a person to run their own paint scheme, but obviously when your running an actual chapter, "oh Astral Claws as BA's make the most sense ..." erm, no they dont. Just tell me the truth, you have SW already and dont want to run reg SM's as they are weaker for his force (except his capt would be slightly better).

[Mudpuppet]

By my calculations his list comes in at a whopping 805 points minimum.

 

Thats at least 55 points over the limit. You should tell him he cheated, he might not know hes doing it.

 

Mudpuppet

[bulley]

Yeah he was a good bit over, and I have a feeling there was another PW in there as well.

 

I mean its going to be a dramatic change to his list if he needs to make any changes, he's either going to lose out on a heavy weapon, or his captain drops to a 4++ etc... I am sure we will have to submit our lists before the tourney, if not I will make a point of getting people to double check their opponents.

 

We caught a guard player doing the same (this time the eldar player caught it) - he "forgot" his list, and fieled about 850+ points, our theory was he couldnt remember which units he had in, and just fielded both.

[Mudpuppet]

Yeah he was a good bit over, and I have a feeling there was another PW in there as well.

 

I mean its going to be a dramatic change to his list if he needs to make any changes, he's either going to lose out on a heavy weapon, or his captain drops to a 4++ etc... I am sure we will have to submit our lists before the tourney, if not I will make a point of getting people to double check their opponents.

 

We caught a guard player doing the same (this time the eldar player caught it) - he "forgot" his list, and fieled about 850+ points, our theory was he couldnt remember which units he had in, and just fielded both.

I dont know how your so cool about it, if i caught opponent cheating like that i'd call his sorry ass on it.

 

Mudpuppet

[bulley]

Well I didnt realise till after I left the store, and I won still lol.

 

I'll see him thursday and I'll mention it discreetly.

 

Pre-tourney I am going to bring up some stuff, like running a PA capt w/ a term model (he uses the FW Huron) while can be a negative for him, is also a bit "iffy". Once its "competative" I get a bit more serious lol.

[Red Fury]

Nicely fought, especially against a slightly larger force. I added it up to a total of 810points based on what you listed at the top.

 

It sounded like he did the assault "defenders react" move correctly. When you assault a PF squad you really want to try to get a regular ccw marine in btb with that PF so that they cannot be put on your libby/priest. After you assault, the defenders react by moving up to 6" to get into BTB with any assaulting models. The only extra stipulation here is that ICs (the captain) must be moved first if not already in btb.

 

But it is my understanding that when you do an assault it is closest to closest for each model...meaning my closest model assaults your closest model, then the next closest, ect...in any order I like. If I am correct that may also protect your preist, keep him toward the back.

The 'closest to closest' is only for your very first model from the assaulting squad. After that you can move them in how you want, but each must end its charge move in coherency with the squad.

 

Good game though, and that was a good blocking move at the end there for the win!

[shatter]

^^

 

I use a silly 14 model TDA unit (3 TDA priests & TDA reclusiarch). Versus an enemy unit with 1-2 ICs, I assault by feeding a priest into B2B with the IC. (If I'm lucky, into B2B with both ICs), preventing them from moving on the 'react to charge' sub-phase and preventing wound run-over onto the rest of the squad. If the enemy IC is also in B2B with the unit proper, he'll still have to decide what to do about it... but cannot move. My high initiative terminators (reclusiarch, 2(3) PW priests and 3 LC TDA) will smush his unit, he maybe gets one or even one hundred wounds on the priest. Dead priest but the enemy loses the combat horribly due to wounds taken (1), not wounds inflicted.

 

Usually, I have to shoot such units though. They run from my termies when they can.

[bulley]

Cool - the assault bit seems alright then, just need to be more picky about placement to make sure I can get PF/IC's in b2b on the charge.

 

I was going to change the final razor/ras squad into a bike squad or double melta gun attack bike squad - but I think the tactical flexibility it gives me with an extra tank and scoring models is good enough. I'll keep this list, maybe swap/change wargear, and definatly run with unleash rage again.