I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before...

[Skirax]

But Raptors don't have Jet Packs listed in their Wargear, but they're described as Jump Infantry.

 

If this is meant to be like this, then it leaves it open for some wicked cool conversions, but I just wanted to check.

[Supreme Overlord]

Precisely what I plan on doing for a 5-man Raptor squad: using the Possessed wings and standard CSM parts. Also gives me a chance to use some of the awesome Possessed sprue without actually playing that unit.

[the jeske]

before you add wings do anything read the chaos faq.

[David the Despoiler]

Indeed, but since the Raptors are actually classified as Jump Infantry, they still won't be able to enter vehicles, regardless of what Wings do.

[the jeske]

the FAQ says if you want to have wings they have to be modeled on . so if you take a winged HQ[and non winged HQs dont exist for chaos]and another unit that has wings [but doesnt use them] will make your army non WYSIWYG.

[Skirax]

Yes, that's a point, but who really cares? Wings do essentially the same thing, we all know the differences.

 

But what I was trying to get at is, you can model some great looking marines in a sort of head-first charge stance and use them as Raptors. And, technically, the GW models are not WYSIWYG, since they have Jump Packs.

[Brother Nihm]

Yes, that's a point, but who really cares? Wings do essentially the same thing, we all know the differences.

Some tournament refs do, sadly. On that note, I've been DQ'ed once in 5th for fielding my Chaos Furies as Lesser Daemons, guess what, Lesser Daemons don't have wings. Everyone knows this. I wasn't going to pretend they had, but having no other models to represent Lesser Daemons, and well, Furies are Lesser Daemons (fluff) I thought it would be fine. But the Ref DQ'ed me anyway based on WYSIWYG non-compliance.

 

 

For friendly games you should be fine though, as long as everything is explained before the game.

[the jeske]

Yes, that's a point, but who really cares?

I dont known.... anyone who plays by the rules of the game maybe ? I mean technicly you can house rule what ever you want , you can give chaos drop pods or better ork or DE transports . But when you play a normal game against some else then your closest friend [may as well not use models at all here , because those games are just tests] you have to play by the rules in the dex and rule book. back in 4th it maybe wasnt so important , but in the 5th you have true LoS and dude with wings[this is just an example] blocks LoS in a different way the a dude with a jump pack. etc etc.

 

And, technically, the GW models are not WYSIWYG, since they have Jump Packs.

it does not work that way dude. there is no standard look for jump or jet packs , but chaos codex is a special one . No other codex faq says that if you want to use gear X it has to be modeled , but chaos one does. to make an example you could make TH that look like spears in any loyalist dex, hell you could even make jump packs that look like wings in a loyalist dex. If two things are the same[wings on HQ and wings on raptors] then you have an WYSIWYG problem and what do the rules tell us about it ? cant do it or at best you have to trade the model for a legal one to check LoS , but your opponent has to say he is ok with it .

[Hellios]

Yes, that's a point, but who really cares? Wings do essentially the same thing, we all know the differences.

Some tournament refs do, sadly. On that note, I've been DQ'ed once in 5th for fielding my Chaos Furies as Lesser Daemons, guess what, Lesser Daemons don't have wings. Everyone knows this. I wasn't going to pretend they had, but having no other models to represent Lesser Daemons, and well, Furies are Lesser Daemons (fluff) I thought it would be fine. But the Ref DQ'ed me anyway based on WYSIWYG non-compliance.

 

 

For friendly games you should be fine though, as long as everything is explained before the game.

O wish I had a plasma pistol in real life... those refs who make stupid DQs would be getting a visit...

[the jeske]

the DQ is not stupid , it is how the rules work. There are different working SS, rhinos etc in the game gear that has the same name , but it doesnt mean that people can play them the way they want to . Rules dont work just when you like them. If they did , they wouldnt be rules anymore.

[Debauchery101]

So technically it I were to roll up to a grand tournement and a marine player had true scale modelled marines which are bigger and block more LOS I can make him swap them out? To me that's kinda rediculous lol

[Cornelias]

where in the rules does it say you can't "counts as" wings for jump packs on raptor squads? the faq only mentions units taking wings as an upgrade ;)

[David the Despoiler]

I see your point, Jeske. The thing is that WYSIWYG comes into play.

 

If what I see are Wings and what I get are Wings on a Chaos Lord, then when I see Wings on Raptors what I get should also be Wings.

 

But it doesn't work like that, Raptors don't have wings.

 

Essentially...

 

For a Chaos Lord:

 

Wings = Moves as Jump Infantry, but is still classified as infantry

 

For Raptors:

 

Wings = Jump Packs

 

So if Wings = X

 

Being Jump Infantry = Y

 

Being infantry but moving like jump infantry = Z

 

Then we have equation X = Z for the Chaos Lord and X = Y for the Raptors. Meaning I could "technically" substitute the equations and get;

 

Y = Z

 

Which implies that my Raptors can move like Jump Infantry or be classified as basic Infantry. Which is untrue and a poor representation of the rules.

[Paradigm]

Well if only the "wings" were the bio-mechanical hybrid winged jump pack of unknown construction on page 85. Its a long shot but it could work. :cuss

[Helebron]

Some tournament refs do, sadly. On that note, I've been DQ'ed once in 5th for fielding my Chaos Furies as Lesser Daemons, guess what, Lesser Daemons don't have wings. Everyone knows this. I wasn't going to pretend they had, but having no other models to represent Lesser Daemons, and well, Furies are Lesser Daemons (fluff) I thought it would be fine. But the Ref DQ'ed me anyway based on WYSIWYG non-compliance.

 

I would be asking him then to show you the correct lesser daemon model to use and then jamming itin his face that there is no correct model since "Summoned lesser Daemons" arent a GW product, and bloodletters /daemonettes /plaguebearers /horrors are not WYSIWYG either.

 

On topic

If its on a lord then yeah you would have to model it accordingly due to foolish FAQ, raptors however I would say feel free as the image on p85 and the fact that it doesnt specify them having a jump pack just moving as jump infantry ( you could even model them with springs on their feet).

[Hellios]

the DQ is not stupid , it is how the rules work. There are different working SS, rhinos etc in the game gear that has the same name , but it doesnt mean that people can play them the way they want to . Rules dont work just when you like them. If they did , they wouldnt be rules anymore.

 

Yer if you have wings that don't count as wings and no model has wings that count as wings then you are totally fine under counts as... Some rules can be stupid... other rules while not stupid in themselves can be applied in stupid ways. Also some rules are optional... they are called optional rules...

 

Many DQs are stupid for one reason or another... many are not... I speak the truth deal with it or stay in Russia! (^_^ I can't tell you to go to Russia as you are there already ^^)

[the jeske]

no model has wings that count as wings then you are totally fine under counts as

yeah of course because you are going to be runing DPs without wings to show everyone your cool conversions :P totaly makes sense to make an army no longer viable , to show of models with switched packs ...

 

 

Also some rules are optional... they are called optional rules...

there are no such things . either something is legal to do or it is not.

 

 

 

 

Many DQs are stupid for one reason or another... many are not... I speak the truth deal with it or stay in Russia! (tongue.gif I can't tell you to go to Russia as you are there already ^^)

I hope that this is some stupid wester saying and your are not trying to insult me or my country.

[Hellios]

no model has wings that count as wings then you are totally fine under counts as

yeah of course because you are going to be runing DPs without wings to show everyone your cool conversions <_< totaly makes sense to make an army no longer viable , to show of models with switched packs ...

 

 

Also some rules are optional... they are called optional rules...

there are no such things . either something is legal to do or it is not.

 

 

 

 

Many DQs are stupid for one reason or another... many are not... I speak the truth deal with it or stay in Russia! (tongue.gif I can't tell you to go to Russia as you are there already ^^)

I hope that this is some stupid wester saying and your are not trying to insult me or my country.

 

My Dps wings would not be same as my lesser daemons wings... (well those would be piddly for a Dp) so I'm not using the same thing to represent two different things... Any Night Lord player who got DQ'ed because he had a prince with wings and then his night lords had the batman helmets with wings would be pretty annoyed I'm sure...

 

No I think you will find in life that many things are optional... but then again maybe I shouldn't expect someone who think corruption and murder is fine to understand that.

 

The saying is "If you don't like it, go to Russia"... So no it isn't some stupid Western saying... it is just a saying which means if you don't like how things are go elsewhere... It seems to have come from America so I assume its origin is based on Capitalism/Communism and what not.

[David the Despoiler]

No I think you will find in life that many things are optional... but then again maybe I shouldn't expect someone who think corruption and murder is fine to understand that.

 

The saying is "If you don't like it, go to Russia"... So no it isn't some stupid Western saying... it is just a saying which means if you don't like how things are go elsewhere... It seems to have come from America so I assume its origin is based on Capitalism/Communism and what not.

 

Dude, calm down and lay off. We're talking about a wargame here, not political nor personal issues.

 

 

The point of the matter is that Wings have a particular piece of wargear they represent. It would be like me going to a tournament and saying that my "plasma gun" is actually a bolter, because I really liked the LoS lighting I did on it. Why shouldn't I be able to? It's a gun, is it not?

 

Just because it glows all pretty-like, doesn't mean it has to shoot plasma. But it isn't WYSIWYG.

[Hellios]

No I think you will find in life that many things are optional... but then again maybe I shouldn't expect someone who think corruption and murder is fine to understand that.

 

The saying is "If you don't like it, go to Russia"... So no it isn't some stupid Western saying... it is just a saying which means if you don't like how things are go elsewhere... It seems to have come from America so I assume its origin is based on Capitalism/Communism and what not.

 

Dude, calm down and lay off. We're talking about a wargame here, not political nor personal issues.

 

 

The point of the matter is that Wings have a particular piece of wargear they represent. It would be like me going to a tournament and saying that my "plasma gun" is actually a bolter, because I really liked the LoS lighting I did on it. Why shouldn't I be able to? It's a gun, is it not?

 

Just because it glows all pretty-like, doesn't mean it has to shoot plasma. But it isn't WYSIWYG.

 

Yer but then you have counts as... as well... and I don't agree with GW letting all the counts as into the game no the less it is there... if you have no plasma guns and all your bolter marines were armed with plasma guns then why not... or if you made your own mini-plasma rifle that wasn't the plasma gun but was supposed to be some low power plasma gun they use on your chapters planet... as a bolter then that is also cool...

 

I wasn't getting into political issues... and I guess him not understanding is personal... big woop... so you would be in favour of DQing a night lords player who had bat-man helmets and a winged DP? If so congratulations you have lowered the mean IQ of Earth by one point.

[Skirax]

Can you all just shut up? Seriously, I started this thread as a simple question, and it's escelated into something stupid. Leave pathetic quarrels out of the forum, any ideological differences put out of the thread and any hates/dislikes etc. left at home.

 

Now, all I was asking was why the Chaos Codex has no Jump Packs listed for Raptors, and people independent takes/interpretations of this rule, and you all have to get petty or offensive in an attempt to get your point across.

 

And well done, you've got your points across; you're low, petty people.

 

Rant Over. Wish I'd never started this pathetic excuse for a thread now <_<

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

And well done, you've got your points across; you're low, petty people.

 

Rant Over. Wish I'd never started this pathetic excuse for a thread now <_<

 

You must be new here. ;)

[David the Despoiler]

Can you all just shut up? Seriously, I started this thread as a simple question, and it's escelated into something stupid. Leave pathetic quarrels out of the forum, any ideological differences put out of the thread and any hates/dislikes etc. left at home.

 

Now, all I was asking was why the Chaos Codex has no Jump Packs listed for Raptors, and people independent takes/interpretations of this rule, and you all have to get petty or offensive in an attempt to get your point across.

 

And well done, you've got your points across; you're low, petty people.

 

Rant Over. Wish I'd never started this pathetic excuse for a thread now :lol:

 

Feel your pain, mate. Like I posted farther up, my opinion is that that was a simple typo and, despite the fact that the Raptors have no jump packs in their war gear, modelling them with wings would be "essentially" wrong (meaning if you were LOOKING for reasons to nit pick people's armies, that could be something you brought up) but lets be honest here... Most people (save EXTREME tournament players that are desperate to get you DQed, in which case you wouldn't want to play against them anyway) wouldn't care. If you went at WYSIWYG with a fine comb, then yes, technically speaking, putting wings on them would be misleading. But you're there to explain things, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Brother Nihm]

Many DQs are stupid for one reason or another... many are not... I speak the truth deal with it or stay in Russia! (tongue.gif I can't tell you to go to Russia as you are there already ^^)

I hope that this is some stupid wester saying and your are not trying to insult me or my country.

 

My Dps wings would not be same as my lesser daemons wings... (well those would be piddly for a Dp) so I'm not using the same thing to represent two different things... Any Night Lord player who got DQ'ed because he had a prince with wings and then his night lords had the batman helmets with wings would be pretty annoyed I'm sure...

 

No I think you will find in life that many things are optional... but then again maybe I shouldn't expect someone who think corruption and murder is fine to understand that.

 

The saying is "If you don't like it, go to Russia"... So no it isn't some stupid Western saying... it is just a saying which means if you don't like how things are go elsewhere... It seems to have come from America so I assume its origin is based on Capitalism/Communism and what not.

+

I wasn't getting into political issues... and I guess him not understanding is personal... big woop... so you would be in favour of DQing a night lords player who had bat-man helmets and a winged DP? If so congratulations you have lowered the mean IQ of Earth by one point.

You were actually, and though veiled, the personal attacks didn't help either. I'll let you both of without an official warning, this time. I do ask however that in the future, you both post in a more mature and constructive manner than what you displayed here in this thread.

 

And well done, you've got your points across; you're low, petty people.

 

Rant Over. Wish I'd never started this pathetic excuse for a thread now :lol:

 

You must be new here. :)

@Skirax + Khestra, your replies didn't help to steer the topic back on course, nor did you use the report button. In fact, your replies dragged the topic further down. Again, please post more constructively in the future or you might end up getting warnings yourself.

 

 

As for this topic,

It has lived long enough.