Noob BA player need help!

[drbro1228]

Hello fellow BA players, I have finally succumbed the the black rage and bought the new BA codex. While I am an experienced C:SM and BT player, im having a hard time figuring out how this codex works and what to start off with. here's some of my questions...

 

1. Whats with the popularity with razor spam? i notice many people using the Las/plas combo with a 5man RAS squad. I'm confused why you would charge a fragile and expensive unit towards the enemy? whats the role with this unit? what synergies with them?

 

2. Whats a good core for a BA army at 1000pts?

 

3. Would ranged DC be a good option since they have the relentless rule? also, are DC a good troop choice as oppose to more RAS?

 

4. Whats everyone's thoughts on infernus pistols vs. melta's

 

5. Whats a better dev load-out, all plas cannons or ML's?

 

thanks,

Drbro

[Dingareth]

1. Fast moving, long-ranged, anti-tank is just about always good. RASs can still take a special at 5 and get a discount on transports so are the best troop choice we've got.

 

2. Either 2 10 man RASs or 2-3 RazorRASs

 

3. No. No.

 

4. Melta when you can, Pistol when you can't. (RASs, Honor Guard in the first category, Sanguinary Guard and Vanguard in the second.)

 

5. Plasma Cannons are rubbish on infantry. Go with Missiles.

[SnorriSnorrison]

It really depends on your environment. If you play in a really competitive environment, the razorspam is the easiest way to play a strong force. If you want to have an imaginative army concept, it is the best to try several army builds and decide then what works best for you.

Fortunately, we Blood Angels have a codex that offers a lot of variety in this case.

 

DC are a close combat unit, period. While Bolters are a quite nice addition, it is cc where they really shine.

 

Take Infernus Pistols where you can't take meltaguns. They are great for cc units that like to pop a terminator or a nob before the assault.

On RAS, always use the meltagun instead of the infernus pistol. The +1 attack is just not worth it.

 

 

I run two lascannons. They survive the game because they are quite cheap and my opponents are forced to deal with my DC, RAS and Sanguinary Guard so my Devs just have a field day....

 

 

Hope this helped. :P

 

Snorri

[drbro1228]

yes this has helped me alot. Im sure ill learn the most when i get some games under my belt, but i just don't want to go into it like deer in headlights.

 

@snorrisnorrison- I would like to have a competitive list that is till fun to play, while avoiding cookie-cutter builds.

 

Feel free to give me any BA advice, i want to get a good understanding of BA's as quick as possible!

 

also, what is the best HQ(besides mephiston) for lower/mid point games?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Well, our competitive lists are fast, hard-hitting and able to absorb small arms fire. In other words, RAS, Vanguard Veterans, DC (dreads) and Sanguinary Priests.

 

While most of the competitive players around these forums don't like them, I think that Devastators have a place in a BA army. Your whole army rushes forward and tries to kill the enemy in close combat, but the Devastators are exposed to other units, they say. From my experience, when an army of bloodthirsty Blood Angels rushes forward to decapitate some xenos, the least thing they will worry about will be your Devs. And at 140 pts, they are not too expensive either, so making their points back is not that difficult.

 

As an HQ, most people recommend the Reclusiarch for CC killyness, or the Librarian for psychic defense...in a competitive game, the Librarian is quite a mandatory choice as you will really need psychic defense. The Reclusiarch is not to be placed within the DC, that's what Lemartes is there for(I give them JP and DS them - they rock!)

You can also try a Captain, but that entry has been nerfed a little bit.

 

Other players with more experience than me may tell you more about the pros and cons of our codex, I like fluffy games on a competitive base - strong lists but still within the fluff.

 

Snorri

[Dingareth]

Feel free to give me any BA advice, i want to get a good understanding of BA's as quick as possible!

 

also, what is the best HQ(besides mephiston) for lower/mid point games?

 

Librarian. No contest.

 

For the best advice you can get, read This, This, This, This, This, and then This.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

To add a bit to the DC answers: A whole DC of Bolters is a bad, bad thing.

But when you run a big DC, say 7-9 crazies, and you already have a Power Fist and 3-4 Power Weapons, the extra attack for the other guys isn't as important. You killing power will be enough without 1 extra attack for the normals. And the slightly reduced melee killing power of the bolter guys can often just be that difference between another round in CC or being shot to kingdom-come by your enemy heavies because you slaughtered the assault target.

 

The increased range of threat and the immense firepower on short range of 4-5 Bolter Death Company on the move can be an awesome thing, I have popped many a transport with this shooting alone, allowing me to attack the content. Armor 10 is not reliable enough vs the volume of fire DC Bolters can bring on the move.

 

But, I feel the Boltguns only work on Big DC's (minimum 7), to give to your 'cannon fodder' DC with no other upgrades (and your Power Fist guy) and only if you run them in a transport. They add something to the squad then that is more than just bodies to soak incoming fire: Outgoing mid range fire of their own.

[drbro1228]

@Brother-Captain Devlonir- that's the idea i was having, since DC could rapid-fire then assault which actually adds up to more attacks done to that unit. ill keep that in mind for fun games, but from what i'm getting, DC are competitive because of their lack of scoring.

 

here's a list i thought of and i was hoping you guys could help fill the extra 200pts

 

HQ- Librarian with sword of sang and rage 100pts

 

Elites- Priest w/PW 65pts

 

Troops- 10 man tac squad w/PF, Flamer, Las cannon, rhino 255pts

 

Assault squad- 5 man w/PF. Meltagun, Las plas razor 190pts

 

Assault squad- 5 man w/PF, Meltagun, Las plas razor 190pts

[Venerable Jazzman]

I'd be tempted to have one Razorback with twin lascannons, and one with either twin heavy bolters or twin ass-cannons. Twin-linking is great for making sure that what you need to hit actually gets hit.

 

For the extra 200 pts you could add a Dev squad with two plasma cannons in another Razorback - good for killing stuff on a 2+, and also useful for area denial, as opponents won't want to cross open terrain and have plasma templates dropping on them.

[Dingareth]

Plasma Cannons are worthless these days, especially on foot. Based on that, I'd pick up a Combi-Melta on the Tac Sergeant, and switch their Flamer to a Meltagun. Drop the Fists on the Assault Squads, wich gives you 240 points. That's 2 Dreads with TL Autocannons. Also, I'd switch the Las/Plas to Assault Cannons.

 

At 1,000 points, 4 Meltaguns, a Lascannon, and a bunch of high strength, twin-linked shots is a good mix.

[drbro1228]

why would TL AC's be better than the Las/plas combo? it seems that it gives me decent AV and a more reliable Heavy Infantry counter than AC's.

 

I would like to the PF's in my assault squads since they add so much utility. i was thinking about dropping the melta's in my assault squads for flamers, then give my tacs the meltagun and combi-melta. opinions?

 

hmm...the dreads seem like a good idea. was there presence meant to keep AV off my razors? cause if its just for long range suppourt, i feel that a ML dev squad would be better/cheaper

 

Would a bike squad be a good choice with a mm attack bike attached? or should i go for more armor?

 

thanks for all your input guys!

[Dingareth]

LasPlas is done much better by Wolves. You've got to play to the Blangels' strengths. Moving 12" and being able to suppress the light tanks commonly found at 1,000 points, the Assault Cannon is the way to go. In my mind, TLAC Dreads out preform Devastator Squads, simply because they're more reliable (Twin-Linking) and add more armored targets to your list.

 

Bikes are good, but with a Razor-based list, they're going to take a lot of the flak meant for all the foot squads at 1,000 points. On Fists, they're great on 10 man squads, but 5 man squads usually don't last until they get to hit, even with FnP. I just feel like it's a 50 point handicap at 1,000 points.

[drbro1228]

Ok cool. thanks a lot dingareth. i have to go to class tonight, but after that i'm gonna make a new list and post it up here and in the army list reveiw section.

 

thanks again for everyone's reply

[bulley]

1. Whats with the popularity with razor spam? i notice many people using the Las/plas combo with a 5man RAS squad. I'm confused why you would charge a fragile and expensive unit towards the enemy? whats the role with this unit? what synergies with them?

 

So versatile, and fast. Being able to contest objectives once your troops are deployed, 18" is immense. It gives a fast moving mobile heavy weapon squad - 20 points for a basic HB which has been a MVP for me.

 

2. Whats a good core for a BA army at 1000pts?

 

For Mech I'd revolved around x1 Libby x2 SP's x4 squads of 5 RAS/Razors with a mix of weapons - then add your options on top of that, E.G Baal's or Speeders etc..

 

3. Would ranged DC be a good option since they have the relentless rule? also, are DC a good troop choice as oppose to more RAS?

 

I dont rate the DC - they are great when they work, but not being able to control them is horrible, also they arent REALLY a troop as they cant contest objectives. Relentess w/ bolters is great, and could be brutal coming out of a rhino, but it takes more work that its worth to create the right scenarios

 

4. Whats everyone's thoughts on infernus pistols vs. melta's

 

Meltas are 10points - infernus are 15. Meltas have a longer range. If you have points to spent then giving your sarge the pistol and special weapon is obviously going ensure that would allocation see's him survive the longest. I run with melta's to save the 5 points.

 

5. Whats a better dev load-out, all plas cannons or ML's?

 

Personal choice is ML - I dont run dev's but I would ML if I do. Lascannons are dedicated tank hunters - 48" range is nice, and x4 could do damage to elite units dont get me wrong. PC's are a middle ground with s7 and a blast, but that "1" can be horrible. ML for me are so versatile. Can glance AV14 and imob them if needed, and can blast away infantry, x4 can be brutal.

 

thanks,

Drbro

[Br0ther Rafen]

Well, one of the things that i love about BA is Death Company. With a pod/jump pack and Chaplin, this unit has destroyed anything that my friends have managed to throw at it and still keep going. For the truly uber 15-30 man squads for Apocalypse, add in some bolters. 10 of these guys in a 30man squad is very good at glancing things to death, and then assualting the contents of the transport, and can be used as meatshields for the SCCW Death Company.

Obviously not the most competitive choice, (30 man unit with no upgrades is 600pt) but they are great to use for fun.

For more competitve stuff however, Jump pack assault list for me is pretty fun but can still put in a good punch against anything like a Las/Plas Razor list, with each squad have a threat radius of 24" maximum, 18" deadly radius.

My 2 cents

Rafen

[bulley]

Anyone who puts a DC infront of me I'll just get my fastest moving cheapest unit (a 120 pt RAS squad in a HB razor) and just keep them about 18" away lol, everything else very far way, and just keep backing off, maybe not even firing. That DC is useless for a couple of turns.

 

Ofc there are ways around it - tunnel them into the middle of the army where he has to engage you to win, thus has to deal with DC, but obviously you'll always look to stop their charge.

[Arkio]

i've never had my DC kited. people always make a mistake and leave something just a fraction closer. or i screen the LOS with another unit alloweing the DC to go after somthing closer.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

i've never had my DC kited. people always make a mistake and leave something just a fraction closer. or i screen the LOS with another unit alloweing the DC to go after somthing closer.

 

Land Raiders are Perfect for this.

[drbro1228]

ok, so after much thinking iv'e decided between a few options...

 

first im going to replace the meltas from my assault squads with flamers, then add a melta and combi melta to the tac squad. my reasoning is because tac squads would be much more durable than my RAS so if something goes wrong, or if there's a unit inside the vehicle i need to pop, my RAS wont get wiped out.

 

For the extra 200pts i'm either going to go with

 

a. Some sort of dread, maybe try dingareths idea of 2 ranged dreads and take points off else where

 

b. Get a dev squad with 4x ML's with a HF or HB razorback

 

c. 2 preds with HB sponsons

 

 

how do these options sound? any others i might want to consider?

[Makkeru]

I'm going to play a 1000p fun-game versus my friends footslogging orks today.

 

This is what I bring:

1000p

Reclusiarch

 

Sanguinary Priest

Sanguinary Priest

 

Furioso Dread

Heavy Flamer

Frag Cannon

Extra Armor

 

5 man DC

3 Bolter

1 Power Weapon

1 Power Fist

Razorback w TL HB

 

10 man Tactical Squad

Flamer + Missile Launcher

Melta Bombs

Razorback + TL Assault Cannon

 

5 man Assault Squad

Melta Gun

Power Fist

Razorback w. TL HB

[bulley]

Thats not a bad list actually.

 

I am not a fan of furiosos's and DC but I think they'll both do alright in that list and especially vs Orks.

[tahrikmili]

I would not consider my list 'competitive' but I will disagree with most gentlemen here wrt DC with Boltguns.

 

They don't score, so they are automatically a subpar tropp choice, but they are a troop choice that easily competes with most Elite choices we have in the Codex. If you are like me, and tend to take Sanguinary Priests, Dreadnoughts and Terminators (highly durable earth units) for your Elites choices, then you still have a very strong Troops choice in the Death Company.

 

Bolters in the Death Company, depending on how you use them, are awesome. If you are fielding one as an all-around disruption unit instead of a CC Death Star, they are invaluable. I deploy mine using a Drop Pod, and Bolters are great to get out of the Pod and lay down a good barrage of Bolter Fire. As a rule of thumb I give them 2 Power Fists for good measure. I field 10 of them, by the way. Less than, say, 7 and Bolters will just not work well enough.

[Dingareth]

So you spend 300 points to do what exactly? Shoot a couple Bolter shots against some side armor and wait for an entire army to come down onto one squad? Why waste points on a distraction when you could just get a unit that could actually do any job better than Death Company?

[tahrikmili]

So you spend 300 points to do what exactly? Shoot a couple Bolter shots against some side armor and wait for an entire army to come down onto one squad? Why waste points on a distraction when you could just get a unit that could actually do any job better than Death Company?

 

I wish you would actually read my whole post.

 

This unit is not a minor distraction by any means, it will, if left to its own, easily eat up anything in its way almost as effectively as a CCW kitted DC. If I drop it behind the enemy, especially near his precious heavy weapons infantry or Troops, that means he will have to do everything in his power to stop them.

 

That will leave me, easily, with 2 turns of extra shooting with my Devastators, Dreadnoughts and Tactical Squads at whatever he has in the middle of the table, and it ensures less of his assault units dare mess with my Troops. The Death Company will drop there, and will either completely wipe out his heavy support / troops or tie up (and more than likely eat up, thanks to their WS5 A2 stats, FNP and hidden fists) his precious CC units.

 

I don't know a single other unit for this purpose that I would ever consider exchanging my DC with except Vanguard Veterans, which would not only cost more, but also cause me to drop either my Priests, my Terminators or my Sternguard.

 

Now, if you are not short on Elites slots and would waste such a slot for a distraction rather than use the DC, that is fine. But I'm not.. And I like the way it works for me.

 

Yet you speak of units that can do ANY job better than the Death Company.. Which units, exactly? Which units can lay down a barrage of 20 Bolters and charge in with WS5 I5 S5, have Feel No Pain and carry any amount of hidden fists? Sorry.. I think you are discounting the guys in black way too much.. Bolters on DC is fine, and considering they have Rage, 24" shooting range is really helpful against those pesky speeders and jumppack units that would lure you away.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Bolters on DC is fine, and considering they have Rage, 24" shooting range is really helpful against those pesky speeders and jumppack units that would lure you away.

 

This.. mostly.

Bolters on the DC have more than once been exactly what stopped an enemy from kiting them. They have so much bolter shots that most units used to kite them will not do so for long.

Transports, jump infantry and bikes are the only real units that are worth to kite a DC with. If you only have CC DC they could do so succesfully. But if you run them with bolters you can shoot the kiter and they probably need to get a new unit in to kite next turn.

 

I run my DC in a normal LR. The LR works as a great anti-tank and troops vehicle as well as a LoS blocker for the DC and a wonderful delivery vehicle that often allows a turn 1 charge if the enemy moves too quickly forward. And once they are outside, the Bolters are what allows me to leave them and truly use them as a fire-and-forget unit, which Rage causes them to be.