how many remain?

[Gree]

In Collected Visions the Legions were said to be about 100,000 men average. Of course First Heretic has the Word Bearers at 100,000, but refers to them as the second largest legion behind the Ultramarines.

[Black Hand]

Whoa, that's getting pretty old school, Vodonius. :)

 

Though, the scouring of Tallarn (I assume when the Iron Warriors attacked and nuked it). Wasn't that post-Heresy, though?

 

During, if I remember rightly. It was one of the big battles of the Heresy, notable because both sides were forced to use tanks only after the Iron Warriors had finished their bombardment.

[Vodunius]

An oldie but goldie - Imperial Armour volume 9 is the only GW gaming suppliment I've seen that comes close to the original Codex Titanicus' level of awesome.

 

To quote the SM1e rulebook "The Tallarn campaign saw some of the most protracted actions of all the wars of the Horus Heresy. The capital city of Rogsburg changed hands several times during the three-year campaign." SM1e did use the term Horus Heresy to cover the Great Scouring aswell, but it was certainly pre-2nd Founding as thats when the game was set. (to quote the full SM1e marine list in WD126: "During the Horus Heresy, Space Marine chapters are of much greater size than those formed afterwards out of their shattered remnants.")

[Allerka]

An oldie but goldie - Imperial Armour volume 9 is the only GW gaming suppliment I've seen that comes close to the original Codex Titanicus' level of awesome.

 

To quote the SM1e rulebook "The Tallarn campaign saw some of the most protracted actions of all the wars of the Horus Heresy. The capital city of Rogsburg changed hands several times during the three-year campaign." SM1e did use the term Horus Heresy to cover the Great Scouring aswell, but it was certainly pre-2nd Founding as thats when the game was set. (to quote the full SM1e marine list in WD126: "During the Horus Heresy, Space Marine chapters are of much greater size than those formed afterwards out of their shattered remnants.")

Gotcha. I was bringing it up since obviously during the Heresy they were at Ultramar fighting off the Word Bearers. So, during the Scouring, but before the Second Founding. That makes sense.

 

Makes the Heresy even more atrocious to think they lost that many people.

[Brother Nathan]

i did figure that they lostt around a third of their legions when they had to weed out the loyalists. and then suffered even more losses at the drop site massacres(obviously not as many asthe loyal chapters they massacred)and then the push to terra must have taken its toll even with reinforcements. and when they got to terrra they had to fight not only the blood angels, the imperial fists, the emperor, the costodians, the sisters of silence, and all the other stuff that he emperor had his disposal, as well as being harrased by the white scars.

However rembering that the traitors had better equipment etc, and were marines killing marines, its bound to have been slow and a meat grinder of epic proportions.the 100k+ legions would surely been near wiped out. but there must be enough for the continual abbadons attacks...

[Allerka]

There's still some oddities left with some of the Legions that weren't really involved. The Iron Hands only lost their veterans, the rest of the Legion took no part in the Heresy and was occupied with trying to re-organize, yet still only had two Successors. Likewise with the Dark Angels playing little part and having only three.

 

Though, looking at the Legions involved in the Siege of Terra, we see they were involved in the heaviest fighting, yet the White Scars managed four Successors, the Blood Angels five, and the Imperial Fists two even after the Siege AND then losing half of what was left in the Iron Cage. Unfortunately, we don't know exactly how badly the Traitor Legions got mauled, though it's reasonable to assume they took just as heavy of losses.

 

I don't doubt the Traitor Legions can replenish their numbers as well, but it's been mentioned they have very few Apothecaries, not to mention they're in constant danger of their gene-seed being mutated by the Warp into something unusable. Combined with the Legions being heavily fractured and in a near-constant state of war with each other, I'd be mighty surprised if they've been able to keep their numbers at Heresy-era levels. Certainly, though, there's still enough of them to pose a serious threat.

[Hellios]

There's still some oddities left with some of the Legions that weren't really involved. The Iron Hands only lost their veterans, the rest of the Legion took no part in the Heresy and was occupied with trying to re-organize, yet still only had two Successors. Likewise with the Dark Angels playing little part and having only three.

 

Though, looking at the Legions involved in the Siege of Terra, we see they were involved in the heaviest fighting, yet the White Scars managed four Successors, the Blood Angels five, and the Imperial Fists two even after the Siege AND then losing half of what was left in the Iron Cage. Unfortunately, we don't know exactly how badly the Traitor Legions got mauled, though it's reasonable to assume they took just as heavy of losses.

 

I don't doubt the Traitor Legions can replenish their numbers as well, but it's been mentioned they have very few Apothecaries, not to mention they're in constant danger of their gene-seed being mutated by the Warp into something unusable. Combined with the Legions being heavily fractured and in a near-constant state of war with each other, I'd be mighty surprised if they've been able to keep their numbers at Heresy-era levels. Certainly, though, there's still enough of them to pose a serious threat.

 

 

Well for the Dark Angels they apparently blew up half the legion on Caliban although the newer Horus Heresy books makes it look like the garrison on Caliban was most likely much smaller than that... most likely a few thousand. Then didn't they fight with the wolves some way back to Terra? and the Wolves also thought with the White Scars getting stuck in with the Alpha legion... and the Wolves managed to keep the AL occupied for long enough for the White Scars to get to Terra later in the seige.

 

So lets me...

 

Ultramarines: Had loads of Marines... battled the second largest legion (?) but the Word bearers plan got messed up with the Abyss being wrecked... so the UMs most likely came out of Calth far better than expected but were to far away to do much until after the Emperor went XD. Hence why 70% of Marines are UM... well that and people not wanting to use inferior geneseed... but don't they have like 20 second foundings?

 

Dark Angels: Involved with the Wolf coming back to terra... blew up some of their own... however unless they took loads of damage fighting with the wolf to terra or bombarding caliban a lot of the DAs seem to have gone missing...

 

Raven Guard: Most of the legion wiped out at the start of the HH...

 

Salamanders: The same as the above

 

Iron Hands: Lost their primarch and best warriors... not much else is known? Maybe this loss of leadership lead to them taking far greater damage in battles afterwards either due to lack of leadership or maybe due to tactically unwise attacks based on revenge.

 

Blood Angels: Some were killed by Chaos daemons at least... more died at the seige.... anyone want to add more?

 

Space Wolves: Fighting the Alpha legion... also if the lion lost lots of marines while fighting with the wolves then maybe the wolves lost a good number as well... also Prospero.

 

Imperial Fists: Siege of terra... I'm sure they had a bad time...

 

White Scars: Fighting the Alpha legion... the seige of terra.

[Allerka]

Well for the Dark Angels they apparently blew up half the legion on Caliban

*Smacks forehead* Wow, I can't believe I forgot about the destruction of Caliban. :down:

 

The Dark Angels and the Space Wolves never fought each other on their way to Terra, they were in two totally different parts of the galaxy until they both got to Terra.

[Brother Nathan]

when people keep mentioning the dark angels being so few, i probably should mention cypher... ie their planet was destroyed, likely lots from both sides(and apparently dark angels had the quickest training time for recruits even with geenseed problems... )so in this somehow cypher and a bunch of his followers escaped somehow...

mmm does the fact that the trator primarchs became deamon princes mean that the geanseed cant be taken from them anymore?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

when people keep mentioning the dark angels being so few, i probably should mention cypher... ie their planet was destroyed, likely lots from both sides(and apparently dark angels had the quickest training time for recruits even with geenseed problems... )so in this somehow cypher and a bunch of his followers escaped somehow...

mmm does the fact that the trator primarchs became deamon princes mean that the geanseed cant be taken from them anymore?

 

Which is one of the things that the theorists use for ammunition that Caliban wasn't "destroyed", it was "transported" into the Warp, and that most likely the Fallen Angels that didn't die in the actual battle with the Dark Angels all survived the transit, thus there could be thousands of them.

 

Possession and ascenion to daemonhood would probably corrupt a Primarch's geneseed beyond the point of recovery, which is probably why Fabius Bile runs around grabbing Loyal Primarch blood in his quest to clone the Emperor and not that of any of the Traitor Primarchs.

[Hellios]

Well for the Dark Angels they apparently blew up half the legion on Caliban

*Smacks forehead* Wow, I can't believe I forgot about the destruction of Caliban. ;)

 

The Dark Angels and the Space Wolves never fought each other on their way to Terra, they were in two totally different parts of the galaxy until they both got to Terra.

 

Sorry when I said they fought with each other I meant side to side rather than against each other... but didn't the lion blame the wolf for slowing him down... so I figured they must have joined up at some point along the way... I'm guessing so they would arrive in force rather than in drips.

[Allerka]

That was before the Heresy. During, the Dark Angels were coming from Caliban (or what was left of it), and the Space Wolves were coming from Prospero, which was nowhere near Caliban. Two different directions, and they wouldn't have met up until they were either at Terra or near it.

[Legatus]

The destruction of Caliban happened after the Heresy. The Dark Angels could have met with the Space Wolves very shortly after the Wolves had fought on Prospero.

[Hellios]

That was before the Heresy. During, the Dark Angels were coming from Caliban (or what was left of it), and the Space Wolves were coming from Prospero, which was nowhere near Caliban. Two different directions, and they wouldn't have met up until they were either at Terra or near it.

 

In space near can be pretty far...