Triple Land Raider list...

[ShinyRhino]

Interesting ideas, everyone.

I'm basically trying to decide if/when it'll ever be viable for me to bother even PAINTING these three Land Raiders. Two of them are metal Crusader kits, and the third is a Phobos on sprue. I'm a fair hand with magnets and such, but I'm wondring if it's worth my time and effort to bother completing these, or just eBaying them away.

[thade]

I'm going to buy 2-3 LRs for my GK once their new codex hits (whenever that happens); that is, if they don't get some other more reasonable transport option. Why they were never allowed Rhinos, the world may never know.

[Tanhausen]

(and there went my post... ARGGGG)

 

1.- I wouldn't sell unless pressed for cash

2.- I'm also big on magnetizing (Maelstrom better deliver TODAY, else I'm in trouble for Sunday)... the sponsons, the central sponsons support (easier to swap weapons if needed) and maybe the doors. In my case, also the front doors, since they snapped when stripping.

3.- Yeah, paint 2 LR: even if its primer + base coat + ink it makes a HUGE difference vs plastic LR

 

(post, you better not die this time...)

[fredbob524]

@ thade why would an eldar player only run one unit of fire dragons, what else does the elites section have plus bright lances cost way to much

[thade]

@ thade why would an eldar player only run one unit of fire dragons, what else does the elites section have plus bright lances cost way to much

 

I dunno for sure, I'm not an Eldar player. Not a question of what else would go in the slot, I suppose, but they certainly bring full lists and I've never seen more than one unit of Fire Dragons. Honestly, I've *only* seen the one unit of fire dragons. No other Eldar players I know use them. I guess I'll ask around.

 

I think that Grey Mage is an old Eldar player; perhaps he'll weigh in at some point.

[ShinyRhino]

When I see them, I tend to see them in Skimmer Spam lists, and the players have run pairs of them in Falcons/Serpents.

[thade]

When I see them, I tend to see them in Skimmer Spam lists, and the players have run pairs of them in Falcons/Serpents.

 

The one guy I have in mind will use them as a suicide squad (min squad size I'm pretty sure) drop them and fly the transport out of there for other uses. The squad opens up on a Land Raider and annihilates it, then gets eaten by what's inside. His opinion: well worth the points, as they cost less than half the LR or something ridiculous.

 

Their limitations are 12" range, 6" melta dmg range...which is basically why they are a suicide unit (unless the rest of your army can deal with what's inside, which isn't out of the question).

 

Anyway, sure. If you field 3 LRs and the opponent fields three squads of of those melta-noobs, we all know what will happen. But against a balanced list, I bet it'd be a fight fight.

[fredbob524]

balanced list should be melta heavy, or like tau who have better ways of dealing with them

[Hellios]

When I see them, I tend to see them in Skimmer Spam lists, and the players have run pairs of them in Falcons/Serpents.

 

The one guy I have in mind will use them as a suicide squad (min squad size I'm pretty sure) drop them and fly the transport out of there for other uses. The squad opens up on a Land Raider and annihilates it, then gets eaten by what's inside. His opinion: well worth the points, as they cost less than half the LR or something ridiculous.

 

Their limitations are 12" range, 6" melta dmg range...which is basically why they are a suicide unit (unless the rest of your army can deal with what's inside, which isn't out of the question).

 

Anyway, sure. If you field 3 LRs and the opponent fields three squads of of those melta-noobs, we all know what will happen. But against a balanced list, I bet it'd be a fight fight.

 

If he had a seer and dire avengers follow behind the Fire dragons he has a good chance of blade storming whatever is inside to death... unfortunatly he won't be able to cast doom on them... for that turn...

 

Also Eldar have loads of great Elites choices :< my fave being howling banshees but then again I tend to take out tanks with long range fire power... and keep my dragons back... when I take dragons... Fire dragons are great if you want to kill a single unit... almost any unit except those with mass Storm shields... but they normally die after that... because people shoot them with anything... so you have to pick a good place to attack... if you want to survive.

 

Man I wish striking scorpions were still strength 4... and that they still had haywire grenades... the same with storm guardians... 20 storm guardians with haywire grenades was ace...

[thade]

Hellios, you xeno scum.

 

Blade storm is ridiculously awesome; sucks to be on the receiving end of it. Doom is also something I don't like...good reason to bring a budget Librarian for some Psychic Hood love. He'd be in the LR though. =(

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I am an Eldar player. This may be a little off-topic, but I cannot in good conscience allow this lunacy to slide.

 

 

@ thade why would an eldar player only run one unit of fire dragons, what else does the elites section have plus bright lances cost way to much

 

Every single one of our five star close combat units, that's what. Scorpions, Banshees, and Harleys are all Elites. Plus, that's where the Wraithguard are for those silly Iyanden folks. I got into this argument all the time over on Warseer (why I stopped going there) -- and while effective, Fire Dragons are not the end-all-be-all of the Eldar Codex. Bright Lances may be expensive, but they're not *too* expensive considering that that 35 point gun allows you to kill a ~250 point Land Raider at medium range about 40% of the time, without having to suicide your Fire Dragons. Don't like the BS3 platforms they come on? You've got three options -- a Farseer to Guide them, a BS4 Wraithlord, or twinlink them on a Wave Serpent turret.

 

 

balanced list should be melta heavy, or like tau who have better ways of dealing with them

 

On the contrary -- spamming melta is one of the signs of an unbalanced list. We'll see how much good those one-shot guns do you when you run into a gribbly Nid list, ork horde, or foot Eldar with an Avatar leading them (who, oh look -- immune to melta!). And while these are not part of the current universally-accepted "mechanized metagame" that pervades the online community, I have seen several of these types of armies in the past two years. Just because they're not played in tournaments doesn't mean they're not played.

 

 

*snip!*

Man I wish striking scorpions were still strength 4...

 

They are S4, Hellios. Their chainsword give them +1S.

 

 

Phew. Ok, now with that out of my system, on to the Land Raider spam. The way I look at it, three Raiders is too many at the normal point values (1500-2000). I've never run more than one in a list, personally, but I can see fielding two at 2000-2500 points; I really do think that three just sucks away too many points.

[thade]

It's a good idea to run two, or at least something equally scary (e.g. a Vindicator) so the LR doesn't soak *all* of the anti-tank fire in the first turn. By that logic, three should also be good. The only question in my mind is whether you can buy enough other stuff with that much in LRs to make the list still work.

[fredbob524]

@ Deus Ex Ferrum so you really think banshees and scorpions are good and harlies are good when the point of the list is not something like fritz's that is a red flag right thir then you tell me to worry about foot orks and foot eldar, good I was laughing so hard at that joke. Tyranids are actually pretty good so that part of the joke was not as funny. but overall the competitive armies in 5th ed are mech. Oh and i like your plans for the bright lance to make it hit that just keep uping the cost, and your whole just because it's not in tournaments, they are in tournaments you just don,t hear about the armies in the bottom 10%. Honestly stop listening to Dakka Dakka Warseer and BOLS find some blogs written by good players like YTTH and 3++ is The New black.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Apparently you didn't read the first line of my post, which stated that I had stopped going to Warseer because they all push Fire Dragons as the quintessential base for an army list; B&C is now the only 40K forum I read. I'm also not going to argue this point any more seeing as how this is a forum for Space Marine commentary, not Eldar commentary, but I will take the time to remind you that the forum's rules & regs say something about flaming other posters. You want to argue my point, fine -- but don't laugh at my opinions. I could be a GT or 'Ard Boyz winner, for all you know (I'm not. . . just sayin').

 

If you really want to go toe to toe on this, shoot me a PM. I'll be more than happy to have a civilized discussion with you.

[Kay]

Why go triple when you can go cuadriple?

Some madness such as:

 

Chaplain or libby-100

Assault terminator squad-200

2x5 man scout squads-150

2x land raiders godhammer with RA-510

2x land raider crusader with RA and MM-530

 

That's 1500 points. Hard to kill as hell...

Bit as you guys say it might only work at 1500 where ppl don't expect to see FOUR land raiders...

 

I might try this list... XD

[thade]

I'm also not going to argue this point any more seeing as how this is a forum for Space Marine commentary, not Eldar commentary...

 

The Tactics board and OR board each offer a little leeway on this otherwise hard-and-fast "Power Armor Only" rule. In particular, discussing the tactics of other armies is useful to we PA-wielders because we fight against them - knowing the enemy, and all that. Same thing goes for the rules board. So we're in the green here. <3 Frankly, I don't and would never play an Eldar army...but I do play against them, and appreciate knowing how they tick so I can stop them from ticking. =)

 

Harlies are annoying because of Flip Belts and their "Shrouding" equivalent (where you can't hit them unless you are withing rapid-fire/charge range); being in charge-range of Harlies is not a good idea, because they excel at close combat.

 

Dire Avenger Exarchs terrify me with that multiple small template AP3 multi-barrage thing...it's eaten more than one of my unsuspecting Tac Squads.

 

Scorpions are the bane of my Vanguard because of their whole "You attack one less time each round" thing, tarpiting them for a ludicrous amount of time. I think they have some sort of mediocre melee-invuln save too? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't remember my power weapons mulching them as I'm accustomed to.

 

I've run Sternguard in a LR before; popping them out for a full volley of LRC + Sternguard rapid-fire = a dead infantry unit. When I do this I will interpose the LR between the target and the rest of their forces, so the Sternguard is afforded some AV14 cover.

[fredbob524]

@ Thade all those are valid reasons but in this current metagame with no assault transports fire dragons work right out of their vehicle and can demech any unit in the game

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If you say so, Thade. . .

 

 

@ Thade all those are valid reasons but in this current metagame with no assault transports fire dragons work right out of their vehicle and can demech any unit in the game

 

True statement. But while Falcons and Serpents are not assault vehicles, the rules allow a unit to disembark at the start of the movement phase and still move and assault . All that is required to get a mounted assault off with Banshees is a little bit of pre-planning. Considering that meltas lose some of their effectiveness against Wave Serpents thanks to the Energy Field (not to mention the cover save from going Flat Out), there's a good chance that the tank can survive long enough to put a Banshee squad in decent assault range. And if the squad you want to assault with said Banshees is in a transport -- well, that's why you have the Dragons. They pop the transports, the Banshees assault the gooey interior -- which keeps said Space Marines from wiping your Dragons and therefore you don't need more than one, maybe two squads of them.

[mowglie]

The 3-raider list typifies the rock-paper-scissors style of extreme listbuilding. Especially at low points values many lists simply cannot touch a 3-raider list, however you'll fold (due to miniscule model count) to armies that came prepared.

 

This kind of play is generally frowned upon outside of tournaments (or unless previously agreed of course!) because essentially the game is decided before you even begin playing. If you brought 3 raiders and your opponent brought green tide, for example, you just win; don't even bother setting up.

 

Even more balanced lists (such as a water SM army) only have a handful of elements that can scratch the LR. You make those your #1 target.

 

As to what else to put in a 3-raider list?

 

Well... not much I guess! However, the correct answer is "more of the same". You've already opted to go balls-to-the-wall for high-AV, so you might as well go all the way and stretch your opponent's melta to breaking point.

 

So, at 1500 points with C:BA

100 - Librarian (SoS, w/e)

945 - RAS-5 raider, 3*5

 

- and you either bring a 4th raider (!):-

~455 - Your choice of assault hammer + raider

 

- or you stock up on AV13 e.g:-

435 - 3x Vindicator

 

C:SM can do it too, but it isn't very good:-

100 - Librarian (Null-Zone, w/e)

225 - BP/CCW Scouts, 3*5

720 - LRR *3

450 - TH/SS in LRC