Bloodclaws & power fists

[Capt. Kenaz]

With a bloodclaw's WS being so low, is it worth the 25 points to include one in your squad ?

 

Just curious before I build and settle on an entry in my list...

[Grimtooth]

With a bloodclaw's WS being so low, is it worth the 25 points to include one in your squad ?

 

Just curious before I build and settle on an entry in my list...

 

With the added attacks for Berserk Charge, yes. With the addition of a Wolf Priest and Oath of War, enjoy the powerfist attacks of the crazy Blood Claws.

[Simo429]

Lets face it Weapon skill really doesn't make a monumental amount of difference against MEQ with WS 3 you hit on a 4 with weapon skill 4 you hit on a four!

[Grey Mage]

Indeed, against opponents with higher WS your looking at things like Greater Demons and Phoenix Lords before it affects their offense.

 

WS 3 hurt them when theyre taking hits, not when theyre dishing them out- and theres nothing we can do about that.

 

I wouldnt take the BC pack without a powerfist, and maybe a WG with one too. *If your running WG that is*.

[dragon950]

Usually have the bloodclaws with powerfist and the wolf guard with a power weapon or claws. Been running that since the old dex and it usually works just fine.

[Thunderhawk3015]

I like the fist in there just because with the Wolf Priest the 3 powerfist attacks on the charge can make the difference on occasion and it means that even against a dreadnaught/wraithlord/other big nasty thing, the blood claws stand a slim chance of making it out before the game ends, as opposed to 0 realistic chance. I also throw in a WGPL who has the a TH/SS combo so there is some added wallop to the unit.

[Wysten]

I generally prefer to put any power fists on the wolf guard and perhaps only consider it if I had extra points. Since it's designed to be a death star anyways, I don't see teh harm if you can't stick a fist on anything else, otherwise best leaving the heavy duty work to heavy duty guys. Thunderwolf with strength 10. Just as moble, and probably more point efficent/Heroic.

[Capt. Kenaz]

I was thinking of running the pack as follows:

 

Wolf Priest

Ragnar BlkMane

WGPL with thunder hammer and storm shield

15 bloodclaws; 2 flamers, 1 power fist

 

What do you think?

 

And, thank you for all of the replies sooo far!

[Spacefrisian]

Ragnar with Blood claws is kind of a waste eg you have a 1 to 4 chance of 2 attacks and maybe 3 attacks on a 5 or 6. Ragnar is better suited with Greyhunters or Wolfguard. This my experience on that matter.

[Capt. Kenaz]

Okay, so Ragnar will run with one of my Grey Hunter packs, and the Wolf priest and WG will stay with the Bloodclaws!

Thanks for the advice.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The answer to any question regarding Blood Claws and value is "no!"

[dragon950]

Ture, with some of the horrible changes that they made to the codex the point increase for a unit that didn't need it was a bad idea.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Well my Swiftclaws and attack bikes are getting repainted to go into my codex army.

[Thunderhawk3015]

To those saying that Ragnar + Blood claws is a bad idea, don't forget furious charge + the face that the blood claws will always have 2 extra attacks on the charge thus not gimping the assault as badly if that 1 or 2 pops up on the d6. That and with 15 blood claws, that will be more attacks, with a wolf priest that will be many hits and at str 5 several wounds.

[Grey Mage]

Ture, with some of the horrible changes that they made to the codex the point increase for a unit that didn't need it was a bad idea.

Well, they needed- but not with a second hit to their abilities by taking out the other SCCW options.

 

One, or the other, would have done fine.

[Wysten]

To those saying that Ragnar + Blood claws is a bad idea, don't forget furious charge + the face that the blood claws will always have 2 extra attacks on the charge thus not gimping the assault as badly if that 1 or 2 pops up on the d6. That and with 15 blood claws, that will be more attacks, with a wolf priest that will be many hits and at str 5 several wounds.

 

But you would get more consistant results from a Wolf Priest alone, and it makes it a massive point sink which is avoidable. Like all deathstars they will avoid it or create buffer layer to absorb the first crazy charge, pour a entire armys worth of gunfire into it and possibly charge back. Blood Claws + Rengar + Wolf Priest to carry them all in nearly boarders on 700 points. Seems a bit extreme really considering it is not quick moving. Mech is king in the 5th ed, you either have it, ways to deal with it or moblity to make foot relivent. A huge mass of blood claws hurts if it's hit, but is likely to be shot up and greatly weakened by the time it gets there.

[Valerian]

Okay, so Ragnar will run with one of my Grey Hunter packs, and the Wolf priest and WG will stay with the Bloodclaws!

Thanks for the advice.

 

This is a better plan, in my opinion. Wolf Priest with Ragnar, both attached to a single unit is honestly overkill in most cases, and makes the unit exceptionally expensive. This takes an effective unit and makes it a Death Star unit that will get targetted with everything the enemy has. By attaching the Wolf Priest to Blood Claws, you make that unit considerably more formidable in close combat, and by attaching Ragnar to a Grey Hunter pack, you make that unit extremely formidable in close combat. By distributing your close combat capability into these two seperate units you will have gained quite a bit of flexibility within your army list, and you force the opponent to make choices about where he allocates his firepower from turn to turn. Either can/will hit hard and do what Assault Forces need to do.

 

I don't run Blood Claws myself, however, they aren't bad units. They have one rather significant advantage to other unit alternatives, and that is that they can fill the transport capacity of a Crusader, and put more bodies into the fight than anything else you've got. This also makes for a positive unit attribute in primarily footslogging forces. If you aren't planning on going with maxed-out squads, however, then there isn't much reason to take Blood Claws over Grey Hunters.

 

Valerian

[Spacefrisian]

I myself am thinking about an uber unit (for bigger games) consisting of Ragnar and wolves, Ulrik, Wolfpriest, wolfguard with Frostblades in Landraider. Imagine them charging with all those re-rolls (and re-rolls to wound vs T5+)

[Br0ther Rafen]

I'm no expert at playing wolves, but BC's on the charge w/ a priest can be scary. Once, i versed a guy in a 2000pt doubles matchup, and he ran 15claws and priest in a crusader. nither myself or my friend could kill it quickly enough, so they got the charge and tabled my friends Death Star unit. and made my friend very angry face. (grrr) I then avenged his precious Captain/Com. Squad Death Star by anilating the unit the holy fire fire of flamers and plasma and thus won the game. :tu:

Back on topic, 45 rerollable hits for guys the cost 15pts a pop is pretty good in my opinion. It's just the matter of getting them there first that's the problem the way i see it.

[Thunderhawk3015]

But you would get more consistant results from a Wolf Priest alone, and it makes it a massive point sink which is avoidable. Like all deathstars they will avoid it or create buffer layer to absorb the first crazy charge, pour a entire armys worth of gunfire into it and possibly charge back. Blood Claws + Rengar + Wolf Priest to carry them all in nearly boarders on 700 points. Seems a bit extreme really considering it is not quick moving. Mech is king in the 5th ed, you either have it, ways to deal with it or moblity to make foot relivent. A huge mass of blood claws hurts if it's hit, but is likely to be shot up and greatly weakened by the time it gets there.

 

That is what Land Raider Crusaders are for bumps the points up to 1k and change but for most standard 1500+ games that one unit, with the proper backing can still be very very deadly. Take out the Land Raider, keep them in cover to counter assault once if your opponent closes with you. And if your opponent is concentrating a load of firepower on your one death star, the rest of your force can still be cracking into his units. Using the Death Star as a deterrent is a great tactic against some opponents.

 

The idea is, for my games at least, to have a balanced list that will take on almost any army and at least make my opponent work to win. A Blood Claws squad can lose 5 models before they are down to 10, the size of a maxed out Grey Hunter squad which against most people running MSU will still be more than enough to roll over the units that have been thrown out of their transports by the rest of the army.

[Wysten]

But you would get more consistant results from a Wolf Priest alone, and it makes it a massive point sink which is avoidable. Like all deathstars they will avoid it or create buffer layer to absorb the first crazy charge, pour a entire armys worth of gunfire into it and possibly charge back. Blood Claws + Rengar + Wolf Priest to carry them all in nearly boarders on 700 points. Seems a bit extreme really considering it is not quick moving. Mech is king in the 5th ed, you either have it, ways to deal with it or moblity to make foot relivent. A huge mass of blood claws hurts if it's hit, but is likely to be shot up and greatly weakened by the time it gets there.

 

That is what Land Raider Crusaders are for bumps the points up to 1k and change but for most standard 1500+ games that one unit, with the proper backing can still be very very deadly. Take out the Land Raider, keep them in cover to counter assault once if your opponent closes with you. And if your opponent is concentrating a load of firepower on your one death star, the rest of your force can still be cracking into his units. Using the Death Star as a deterrent is a great tactic against some opponents.

 

The idea is, for my games at least, to have a balanced list that will take on almost any army and at least make my opponent work to win. A Blood Claws squad can lose 5 models before they are down to 10, the size of a maxed out Grey Hunter squad which against most people running MSU will still be more than enough to roll over the units that have been thrown out of their transports by the rest of the army.

 

Yeah, I'm just saying theres not enough a combat improvement to justify the wolf Priest and Rengar together, is still 700ish points spent on a large block of units that won't be useful until they reach their destination.

 

Tynaid Deathstars are good because they are tough and can put out solid firepower.

 

Meganobs and Thunder Wolves are good at being deathstars because they are highly mobile along with being tough. They simply give the oppoment a very limited length of time in which to react and at most will probably cost a Thunder Hammer unit.

 

 

Blood Claws are basically a large meatsheild, hence the oppoment will have time to focus on your support in isolation, then probably punt a few small meat sheilds infront of the grinder where they will kill them, then get blasted. Thats why I am saying not take both because it's doing something that probably putting either, not both, will do a simlar job to what they will be doing. Blood Claws are an expendable distraction, spend too much then that and it's a huge waste of points for every one that dies, since the commanders cost is spread between all the blood claws in the pack.

 

Counter Assualt units is not something that should cost several land raiders, it's a 180 unit of skyclaws, or a small unit of swift claws ready to fling themselves face first into whatever strays on their side of the battle field. Perhaps give them a priest and a fist and they will probably be happy darting around all day, swinging those vital battles in your favour and leaving you enough points to field another rock solid unit or more supporting backbone.

[Thunderhawk3015]

Problem with skyclaws is they cost more and there are less of them and, at least for me, the true strength of the blood claws is their numbers so they can absorb more fire once they are exposed. I'm not saying there are not better ways, I am trying to provide an argument as to how/why blood claws with a powerfist and a couple characters can make using power fists a viable tactic.

 

Thunder Wolves are cheaper, but as a personal preference I tend to not use them as they are looked on as a bit of a crutch for games at my local game store unless there is a tournament coming up and everyone is testing out ideas.

[Mr. Danvers]

BCs are a wonderful unit in my opinion. I ran them pretty much exclusively as my troops options before we got the new book and I've never been disappointed by their performance in the past.

 

I feel that they are slightly underpowered in this edition considering the drop in the number of SCCW. The points cost doesn't really get to me that much, as I always felt that they were a great choice in the old mini-dex, if not a little too cheap. It's the drop in the number of PFs that ruined them. Granted I went the whole hog for 3 in each unit in the last version, but I suppose that's why it's been reduced. I've wiped out command squads and captains regularly with BC units and 3 powerfists.

 

I've not really tried them out from the new codex, apart from one game. The problem we have is that why would you take the BCs, when GH are the same cost and a much more useful with the option for short range as well as CC. They're not really a 'finesse' unit, you can only really go a slap your opponent about the head with them. Sadly, they will always come second place to the hunters because of this single style of play.

 

They'll always have a spot in my heart, not only for being my best unit pre 5E, but also because I feel that they suit the chapter very well fluff wise:

 

'Welcome new recruits! Now it may come to your attention that we don't field one of those softy scout companies. There's a very good reason for this: why should we waste time with you sneaking about like that when we can give you power armour, chainsword, bolt pistol and let you run out and nut the nearest thing that's a different colour to you?'

 

If I was to sum them up very quickly:

 

A) Definitely a good fluff choice: One of my companies suffered heavy GH losses in one campaign and currently uses BCs to make up the numbers.

:P I wouldn't leave home without them having a PF, just to wallop an IC or tank etc.

C) Wolf Priests aren't essential, but they do make them more reliable, especially on the PF attacks.

[Tsavong Lah]

I wonder if it would be worth it to run three 5-man units to get the three powerfists and then intermingle the models. No transport, obviously, but if you're already footslogging it might not be a terrible idea. Keep them together, get them into multiple combat, and wreck stuff. Also gives you three flamers instead of two, incidentally.

[Bulweih]

I myself am thinking about an uber unit (for bigger games) consisting of Ragnar and wolves, Ulrik, Wolfpriest, wolfguard with Frostblades in Landraider. Imagine them charging with all those re-rolls (and re-rolls to wound vs T5+)

 

Brother, you are almost talking about my fabled 'tank of doom', for Apocalypse only :) .

It's a crusader filled with Ragnar 1 Wolf, Ulrik, Wolfpriest, WolfGuardBattleLeader with Frostaxe and Stormshield and ten WG with Frostweapons and Stormshields.

It deserve's its title and usually gets aimed at really big stuff-and kills it.

 

Regarding the topic:

Bloodclaws I run in two ways, footslogging they go with a Packleader and a Wolfpriest, aside from that in a LRC with just the priest.

They are nearly always kitted out as follows, 2 Flamer+Fist.

I ran them more frequently in the old dex' times, but from time to time I field them and greatly enjoy them charging someone unlucky.