Optimising TWC

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I've been away from the forum for a while but have still been playing regular games and just wanted to share some success I've had with a particular TWC loadout - it aims to optimise rending and wound allocation opportunites and hasn't failed me yet:

 

5 TWC - BP/CCW, B/CCW, BP/CCW/MB, B/CCW/MB, B/PF

 

This cashes in at 285 points - not cheap (though relatively so for 5 TWC), but really useful for wound allocation purposes - I have sometimes run it with the uber-lord (TH, SS) and that is a real juggernaught which had killed 20+ enemies in a player turn on several occasions and won games single handed (clawed?). Going solo it has also served me well - very tough to kill (except for those damned S10 templates), maximum wound allocation, trashes vehicles and infantry alike and a few useful bolter shots too if necessary.

 

Deep down, I'm still a bike guy to be honest, but I can't pretend that this pack doesn't have a special place in my heart. The tag team of this pack, a wolf priest/Blood claw bike pack and a Fenrisian wolf screen is something opponents quickly learn to fear.

[Max_Dammit]

Id never run them like this, Id rather have 4 and 2 stormshields, I want to be able to try and save those dam S10 templates ;)

[Simo429]

You need at least 1 storm shield in there!

[Grimtooth]

Yea, I would at least like 1 SS. Granted it sounds like you have a cover save wall in front of them, but it would help in close combat.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I think TWC are outrageously fun and I do have some envy because of them, in all honesty :P

 

I am wondering about the B[olter] on the PF guy. I know he doesn't get an extra attack, but the BP[istol] would allow him to add a shot on the charge.

You would not use the TWC to shoot >12" as you have to stay still. The 2 shots <12" would mean you could not assault. I think you might as well keep the Bolt pistol.

 

SS would help with the s10 shots, and generally help with those nasty ap 1+2+3 guns.

 

I have found that keeping my i5 for my Marshal, by not taking PF/TH helps kill things before it has a chance to strike. Being s5 means he will actually wound stuff, add the Frost blade or Wolf claw and he kills MEq on a 5/6 [frost blade] or 8/9 [wolf claw] ^_^

 

Slap the PF on one of the TWC :)

 

I am pro-Fenwolves too :D

[Godhead]

Int 5 doesn't seem all that great when compared to a lot of big things. I like saga of the bear and the TH/SS in order to facilitate this. A lot of special characters go before int 5 and have just as good of a chance to take out my lord regardless of my being int 5 or 1. The biggest weakness of the TWC is volume of attacks (at least IMO) so I don't really want to point them at that large squad of zerkers, or the large squad of nobz etc, unless it serves a greater purpose in my overall battle plan. Instead I point my TWC at MCs, IC's tanks etc.

 

With the Str 10 TH I get to insta kill a lot of things and drag souped up killing machines down to int 1 with me. The Frost weapon can't. I do agree that the frost weapon is better at killing meq, but if we're talking about meq then math hammers can argue that the wolf claw is statistically better. And I have plenty of other things more than capable of killing MEQ. Plus, like I i've already stated, lots of attacks = bad vs TWC.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Int 5 doesn't seem all that great when compared to a lot of big things. I like saga of the bear and the TH/SS in order to facilitate this. A lot of special characters go before int 5 and have just as good of a chance to take out my lord regardless of my being int 5 or 1. The biggest weakness of the TWC is volume of attacks (at least IMO) so I don't really want to point them at that large squad of zerkers, or the large squad of nobz etc, unless it serves a greater purpose in my overall battle plan. Instead I point my TWC at MCs, IC's tanks etc.

 

With the Str 10 TH I get to insta kill a lot of things and drag souped up killing machines down to int 1 with me. The Frost weapon can't. I do agree that the frost weapon is better at killing meq, but if we're talking about meq then math hammers can argue that the wolf claw is statistically better. And I have plenty of other things more than capable of killing MEQ. Plus, like I i've already stated, lots of attacks = bad vs TWC.

 

If you already have the job covered, keep the TH ;)

I also agree with your philosophy of bullying things that you can overwhelm quickly, which reduces the number of saves you have to take and so on. 2 on 1 points wise is the only way to fight :tu:

 

 

But this is why I like i5:

i5 does help, but it is not automatic like the Phoenix Lords, etc.

I have learnt this through Furious Charge. It was actually the initiative bonus that helped me kill my foe before he got to swing, as much as the strength bonus. With higher initiative, you can unravel your foe [hopefully] and keep pulling that thread.

 

Lord-i5 kills Warboss-i4

Marines-i4 kills Nobz-i3

 

With the Lord at i1, the Warboss gets all his attacks off, and you have less Marines to kill Nobz with, so more Nobz live, and they kill more marines too.

Perhaps the Nobz even killed the Lord?....

 

i5 means you can kill Sang guard, LC Terms, Nid Warriors [without lash whips :P ] etc. without them getting an attack off. Yippee!

 

Sometimes your TWC will get charged, even though they have a long reach themselves, and i5 helps you to kill his guys before they even get to use their +1 attack bonus [and even Furious charge for Nobz]

 

 

Anyway, if TH/PF are working for you, keep doing it :D

[Wysten]

The thing is, if you wanted a guy to carry a thunder hammer, you would just take a pair of thunder wolves, more attacks, costs only 160 for two and they have more wounds and the same levels of durablty and get more attacks. Sounds a fair enough deal really. More units for more pain really.

 

Striking before inti has it's own advantages, against the bulk of lists based on marines that extra inti can greatly reduce the damage of the counter attack. Most armies generally don't strike before that, excluding some guys and Eldar in general.

[Godhead]

Double str 10 TH's for the win. A big beastly lord on TWM draws lots of attacks off the actual TWC unit. 9 to 11 str 10 attacks is nasty. You can double up on TWC, but that eats two FA slots, which some of us don't have available. You also don't get saga of the bear, nor do you get the runic armor, or WTN. I do believe that both options are viable It just depends on what else you have you in your list. I also just love the idea of a big hulking massive badass warrior leading his troops to hell and back. I like my heroes ;)

[Natanael]

I posted some of my optimized TWC-units in the topic about IC and TWC. Your build is kinda good, but you really need that SS in there. It get expensive fast when you add them, but at least one to take the PF hits is a must have. I usually run two packs of 4 TWC, each one equipped like this:

 

Regular

Meltabomb

Storm Shield

Power Fist

 

It has got good protection, good wound allocation and hit har enough. If I add a 5th TWC I give him a bolter or SS & Meltabomb.

 

- Natanael

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Interesting points all round, many thanks.

 

It was a quite deliberate choice to have no storm shield(s) - my thinking was this - you are adding an upgrade which costs 30 points to a model which costs 50 - this is an extra 2/3 to the cost, which just isn't worth it when most hits won't even kill the 2 wound model outright anyway. SS are for single model 'units' in my opinion where the points and kp cost are simple to justify. No SS also allows me to max out the pack size more easily (points wise), something I am a massive fan of, particularly with the wound allocation opportunities with 5 different 2 wound models - the argument is even stronger with 2 SS - ok, without SS they are going to take PW/AP wounds quicker, but they have more models and wounds to play with - the only situation that really counts is the S10 template, but even here you are adding the chance to save one or two models - I'd rather just have more to start with (shrugs).

 

I'm not saying this is watertight, but thats the logic and it works for me - I've stuck with my max pack size principles throughout my 40k career and it just seems to win out - more models, particularly more space marines (wolves) just seems to maximise an armies potential, and TWC are no exception. The other point worth noting is that 5 TWC scares opponents to death (the sheer size and look of the pack if nothing else) and thus they get excessive attention for a pack which isn't even 300 points - they can't hold objectives and can kill anything - surely a combination which makes them a natural target for your opponent (while GH etc. are left in peace) alongside an ace up your sleeve if someone foolishly ignores them, particularly with their speed.

 

As for the additional IC, the TH TWC lord is a beast - I have attached him to this pack with two wolves which allows him to split off if necessary or juggernaught together for some S10 megadeth. Difficult to fit into 1500 points, but a definite winner at the 1750+ mark.

 

Natanael: Looked up and read your thoughts - some good tips and tactics in there that I will take on board.