Word Bearers and their Faith

[Chowda]

One of the reasons I think people take issue with Lorgar's quick 180 from Emperor worship to Chaos worship is because you never really see it. Instead, we get him being told a story confirming the existence of such entities. In my opinion, book 2 in The First Heretic is the best section of any Horus Heresy novel so far. However, Lorgar doesn't turn to Chaos until after he spends time in the Eye Of Terror, and there's no telling how long he was actually in it from his perspective. We hear some talk (I believe from the entity inside of Argel Tal) about how Lorgar was actually harder to turn than they had thought, but they knew they would get him eventually.

 

For me, it was a more believable turn than Horus's because we get to see nearly all of his turn away from the Emperor. That process seemed all too easy, especially because at that point, Chaos was only outwitting him, not actually corrupting him yet. At least that's what I gathered from reading the first two HH books.

 

What we need is a book titled "Erebus" that fills in a lot of the blanks for both primarchs. Have it come out just before the Battle of Terra kicks off. That would be awesome.

[gabrionus1]

Considering the emperor's reaction to the word bearer's "failure" ...I must admit to some confusion in the rapid acceptance of Emperor worship post throne internment.

 

I don´t really know how long it took for the Imperium as a whole to start worshipping the Emperor as a god, but there are two points to consider here IMO:

 

1) The fact that Demons, Gods and other unnatural beings have proven to exist and the trauma the direct confrontation with such beings had created on many millions of Imperial citizens, who would desperately search for "divine" assistance.

 

2)Do not unerstimate the power of religion as a cohesive force. With the Emperor almost dead, the ideals of the Great Crusade utterly destroyed and half of the mighty Astartes Legions turned traitor, the newfound godhood of the Emperor turned Him into a common symbol of unity for the loyal citizens of the Imperium. Note that most of the Astartes do not believe in Him as a god, probably because they still remember, via their Primarchs and traditions, the origins of Imperial religion.

 

I gotta admit I can sympathize with Lorgar's logic in claiming the Emperor's diety....

"I will not be silenced because you do not like the melody of one single word. In your grip, a thousand worlds turn! By your will, a million vessels sail the void. You are immortal, undying, seeing all and knowing all that transpires across creation. Father, you are a god in all but name. All that remains is to confess to it."

 

I like the "melody of a single word" statement. Too bad Lorgar was corrupted :lol: Woulda made a great hero to rise from such humiliation.

[Vixthra]

What we need is a book titled "Erebus" that fills in a lot of the blanks for both primarchs. Have it come out just before the Battle of Terra kicks off. That would be awesome.

 

 

I could not agree with this statement more in any capacity. I would consider donating a kidney if it got me this book.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

lol the irony, The chaplains preachers and defenders of the faith of mankind were the first to turn

[randian]

However, Lorgar doesn't turn to Chaos until after he spends time in the Eye Of Terror, and there's no telling how long he was actually in it from his perspective.

He sees the horror and barbarity of the Eye and isn't repulsed? That should tell you a lot about the amorality of Lorgar and the other Primarchs who turned. Can you imagine any ordinary person deciding their current moral system was clearly a fraud after seeing the Eye for what it is? I can't, only a person with no moral code at all would find what Chaos not merely accepts, but demands, be done in its name to be "truth".

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

However, Lorgar doesn't turn to Chaos until after he spends time in the Eye Of Terror, and there's no telling how long he was actually in it from his perspective.

He sees the horror and barbarity of the Eye and isn't repulsed? That should tell you a lot about the amorality of Lorgar and the other Primarchs who turned. Can you imagine any ordinary person deciding their current moral system was clearly a fraud after seeing the Eye for what it is? I can't, only a person with no moral code at all would find what Chaos not merely accepts, but demands, be done in its name to be "truth".

 

You're projecting. Anyone who expects that their god has power is going to place demands on that god, and expect demands in return. For Lorgar, whether the god in question was the Emperor or the Warp, he already knew that there would be a price to the power he sought.

[vonny]

And he thought humanity would die out like the eldar almost did if they didn't embrace chaos.

[mcbeaty]

lorgar lived to worship when the big e stoped him he simply found some thing that wanted to be worshiped it was his talent all he knew he wanted aceptence chaos gave him what he wanted.

[Lord_Caerolion]

lorgar lived to worship when the big e stoped him he simply found some thing that wanted to be worshiped it was his talent all he knew he wanted aceptence chaos gave him what he wanted.

 

Seriously, dude, punctuation isn't that hard to use, and would make your posts much, much easier on the eyes.

[Trel]

And he thought humanity would die out like the eldar almost did if they didn't embrace chaos.

 

Indeed. Moreover, he didn't see anything necessarily inherently malevolent about the Warp. Wrathful and capricious, maybe, but what gods aren't?

[lee265]

I always felt that was basically this:

 

Great crusade after Logar is found

Emperor: Science is right. Gods don't exist and I am not one. This is the Imperial Truth Questions?

 

Logar: Ok, What are we doing Dad, and why do I run a large group of warriors?

 

Emperor: Spreadin this Imperial Truth and reuniting Humanity, by force if neccesary.

 

Logar: OK

 

Logar (to self): must be god for he denies his godhood (like most people)

 

End of great crusade

Emperor: why are you telling people I'm god? and why are these buildings more important then your mission The one I gave you?

 

Logar: duh!?!?!?

 

Emperor: Get on with conquering worlds its the reson you were made.

 

Logar: But your God.

 

Emperor: no I'm not I told you I wasn't.

 

Two hours fifty-seven minutes later

Logar (weeping): why?

 

Mysterious Voice: I'll tell you he wants to be one of us.

 

Logar (still whining): who are you?

 

Mysterious Voice: One of the true gods and we have work for you.

 

Logar (with look of glee):so you want me to forsake my creator and the purpose he gave me and follow you to destroy him? and you are a god?

 

Mysterious Voice: correct.

 

Logar: alright boss lets fdet this done.

[Anselmius]

The irony is that The "real" chaos gods they end up turning to and worshiping are also a product or human/alien emotions/evils etc etc and thus are also "ideas". Manifestations of emotion and thought come to life and "real" but by products of human/alien psyche nonethless.

(at least thats my take on it)

Thats an interesting way to look at it. It shows Logar's true idol was not the Emperor, but rather an idea he thought the Emperor conformed with.

 

 

You know, the Emperor really never explicitly denied divinity in the book (as far as I read), you can only imply it. He certainly chastized what Logar had done, which we later find out (thanks to his foster father) included leaving chaotic cults unchecked, but he never explicitly contradicts the later imperial cult. I wondered if that was intentional.

 

Someone else mentioned that while Logar followed the Emperor ONLY because he thought what the Emperor was doing lined up with his perception of goodness/divinity, Guilliman's perception of good was what lined up with the Emperor. If Logar thought the Emperor was his god he would have made him the standard of his good, while the standard of Guilliman's good is the Emperor, thus making him Guilliman's ultimate god, but not Logar's. Thus, from the very beginning, Guilliman was the true worshiper of the Emperor and Logar was the false one despite the appearances of external actions.

 

I doubt the IP holders thought so logically into understandings of such terms (seem too swayed by modernism). I think it might have been more like: O, emprah is a mighty super-human, psychic, enlightened thinker who no need faithz but stupit logar too weak for secularism, but in 40k there iz supernatural so logar turns hiz faith there rather than in the message of emperor like Guilliman, oh wait, we also think only faith and worship applies only to supernatural so Guilliman haz no faith cuz he don't think emperor is supernatural but Logar doez... Meh, were these militant secular tones of the early imperium so entrenched in the 40k mythos before the HH series? It makes the whole aesthetics of the space marines being angels of death, paladins, etc as a big ol' ugly contradiction.

[Ubermensch Commander]

The irony is that The "real" chaos gods they end up turning to and worshiping are also a product or human/alien emotions/evils etc etc and thus are also "ideas". Manifestations of emotion and thought come to life and "real" but by products of human/alien psyche nonethless.

(at least thats my take on it)

Thats an interesting way to look at it. It shows Logar's true idol was not the Emperor, but rather an idea he thought the Emperor conformed with.

 

 

You know, the Emperor really never explicitly denied divinity in the book (as far as I read), you can only imply it. He certainly chastized what Logar had done, which we later find out (thanks to his foster father) included leaving chaotic cults unchecked, but he never explicitly contradicts the later imperial cult. I wondered if that was intentional.

 

 

 

The Emperor did explicitly deny his divinity, which is revealed through the dialogue between Lorgar and the Emperor in First Heretic.

Lorgar even acknowledges that the Emperor denied it, but in his bizarre rationale stated that "only the divine deny their divinity." Apparently "no" means "yes," "yes" means "yes," and maybe means LOOK A SQUIRREL.

 

Honestly, I loved First Heretic and still feel only contempt for the Word Bearers. Entirely self inflicted wounds. What the Emperor did to Monarchia is no different than what he did on Earth or any other planets in the way of the Great Crusade. He had always preached a rationalist message. He even had individuals spreading the Imperial Truth attached to all the expedition fleets.

 

Another curious point is Lorgar's definition of a god. It is reliant solely on power. So the Emperor commands massive fleets and multiple worlds and thus must be a god. Alright fine. What about a Necron? It can recreate itself from scratch and can teleport across the stars. Is it a God? A Titan may lay wasted to a planet...is it a God? The Eldar are able to divine time/space and do all kinds of crazy stuff...are they Gods?

 

But the real kicker...after the chastisement Lorgar figures that "just because something is divine it is not necessarily worth worshiping." Ok, fair enough. But then he sees the insanity and corruption of Chaos and figures THAT is worth worshiping? Beings made of lies, constructed from dead bodies, and having a presence makes humans go mad or become sick simply by being in the same room? THAT is a "truth" he wants to bring to mankind?

*shakes head* That is just sad.

 

Great book. Good job tracing Lorgar's descent, and really good looks at the way different Primarchs work. I really enjoyed Lorgar's statements about how he WASN'T an uber warlord or tactician. Never claimed to be and never wanted to be. Interesting stuff.

Looking forward to more Guilliman actually. Class act.

[Ashe Darke]

One thing I got from the book is that the legion's genetic trait/flaw is that they pretty much blindly follow Lorgar. 'Worship this guy', they all do. 'Go into the warp where potentially you'll die and that's not the worst thing that could happen', and they do.

 

During the fight against the planet which is also in the short stories they all feel lost because Lorgar does/hasn't told them what to do. They are sheep whose faith in their Primarch and his beliefs is unquestionable, that is where their faith lies. That is why they seemingly turned so quickly. There is also the angle of their principles, all they want to do is bring the truth to the universe. They thought that Emperor's truth was it but then they discovered he was lying to them. They decide that it's an ugly truth but humanity deserves to know. This is also probably a reflection of Lorgar's thoughts on the matter.

 

But Argel Tal never seemed sure about all of this. I always thought there was an element of hesitance about some of the things he was asked to do, yet he does them anyway. Despite his misgivings he proceeds like he has no say in the matter because his obedience.

 

Well that's the impression I got anyway.

[Caleth]

On the note of genetics and what they did and did not make the legion do.

 

1) we have the Deamon I can't remember Raum or the "guide" can't remember it's name. Stating that Lorgar and other Primarchs that later fell stayed in the warp longer. Lorgar the longest.

2) Spells need blood and Blood can effect things up and down the genetic pathway (Ie father to son, Primarch to Legion.) This is the rational behind wanting the Custodes blood.

 

With these two things, and from the book we know that the legion was predisposed to be faithful. The question is did this come from the Emperor who foresaw the future enough to know that he needed Lorgar to fall? Not likely IMO unless he was able to see the really long game and could even see up to points where the end of days conflicts happen. If he was able to see that long after his "death" well all bets are off.

 

My nascent theory is the four gods are the ones responsible for this particular trait of the legion. Nothing says that with essentially limitless time Tzeentch or one of the others couldn't have work some changes so subtly they escaped the Emperor's notice. If the book's presentation is unbiased the four gods had knowledge even the Emperor did not which is why he bargained with them. (Assuming any of that is true.)

 

So if using the time on hand to carft very subtle changes into the legion using spells powered by their primarch's blood and perhaps changes on the Primarch himself to make him zelous. He was then raised on a Planet that was tainted with remnants of Chaos worship which he adhered to because of his genetic predisposition and then nurturing in these faiths by his "father." So when the Emperor came along and lived up to the premonitions Lorgar had been having it buried his old faith under the ground in the presence of the volcanic power and reality of the emperor. Let's face it very little beats having a real life god show up and call you son. But when the sound and fury subsided Lorgar went about being who he was which pissed the Emperor off so he smacked him on the nose like an Errant pup, and up until now Lorger had never failed at anything. So when faced with his own short comings he did what any emotional teenager does and blamed his parent. Which when coupled with the meddling of the Chaos gods caused him to dig up his comforting old ways and suck his thumb and pout and have an emo fit. ... Ok I'm beginning to radically oversimplify but my thesis is Chaos set the elements in place for this to happen up to and including messing with Lorgar and his legion to ensure they would play the part given to them perfectly.

 

I might edit this in the AM.

[Vixthra]

 

The Emperor did explicitly deny his divinity, which is revealed through the dialogue between Lorgar and the Emperor in First Heretic.

Lorgar even acknowledges that the Emperor denied it, but in his bizarre rationale stated that "only the divine deny their divinity." Apparently "no" means "yes," "yes" means "yes," and maybe means LOOK A SQUIRREL.

 

 

Made me laugh and think of *He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy!!*

 

For me Lorgars turn was inevitable. There are people in life that crave the divine and Lorgar was clearly such a person.

 

1) Raised on Colchis, a deeply religious world

2) Raised by Kor Phaeron, a deeply religious person

3) Before the big E arrived, Lorgars defining action was wiping out a religion on Colchis and replacing it with another, more palatable religion (big E worship)

4) Spent 200 years trashing civilizations and making certain the worlds he left in his wake worshipped the big E as much as he did

 

If daddy then turns up and spanks you in front of your brother, forces your sons to kneel before him and unequivocally shames you for everything you have ever done in his name......you're gonna be miffed to say the least.

 

So then one day, while your out prosecuting your fathers justice across the galaxy and still pining for the divine, along come these *gods* that not only say "Hey Lorgy, WE'RE the real gods around here, PLUS if you dont start worshipping us like ya should do, you'sa gonna diiiie like da Eldar did" but they also offer tangible rewards for said worship (I'm in 2 minds really tho as to possession being a reward haha but demonic status has gotta rock....who's with me ).....well, it doesn't take a genius to see why there's gonna be a switch in allegiance.

 

For people that have this spiritual side, their gods are more important to them than any Crusade or vision held by another mortal (big E in this case). And when said gods tell said worshiper *the fate of your race is in your hands*, well........maybe hubris is gonna kick in because you get to be the saviour of your race and say SCREW YOU DADDY I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG.

 

Apologies for rambling but I'm a Word Bearer fan boi, I adore their lore and this is just my 2 cents :cuss

 

tl;dr - Some people need religion

 

Edit; Bah!! I phail at quoting

[randian]

And when said gods tell said worshiper *the fate of your race is in your hands*, well........maybe hubris is gonna kick in because you get to be the saviour of your race and say SCREW YOU DADDY I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG.

That makes zero sense. Chaos showed Lorgar a vision in which it was Chaos itself that destroyed the Eldar. If you're Lorgar, and you're shown a vision from somebody saying "join us and be humanity's savior, or we'll destroy humanity ourselves", would you join up? I sure wouldn't, nobody who tells me they're going to destroy my species gets to claim that they'd be my savior if they refrain. That's not an offer of help, that's blackmail.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

And when said gods tell said worshiper *the fate of your race is in your hands*, well........maybe hubris is gonna kick in because you get to be the saviour of your race and say SCREW YOU DADDY I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG.

That makes zero sense. Chaos showed Lorgar a vision in which it was Chaos itself that destroyed the Eldar. If you're Lorgar, and you're shown a vision from somebody saying "join us and be humanity's savior, or we'll destroy humanity ourselves", would you join up? I sure wouldn't, nobody who tells me they're going to destroy my species gets to claim that they'd be my savior if they refrain. That's not an offer of help, that's blackmail.

 

Except that's not how Chaos presented the fall of the Eldar. Their take was that the Eldar had built their vast empire through faith, and were only destroyed when that faith faltered. In that light, Lorgar would infer that having one faith (the original Chaos worship of Colchis), then turning to another faith (the Imperial Truth), would represent the same monumental failure, and that his works in the Emperor's name had only been perpetuating that failure and thus sowing the seeds of Man's destruction.

[Vixthra]

And when said gods tell said worshiper *the fate of your race is in your hands*, well........maybe hubris is gonna kick in because you get to be the saviour of your race and say SCREW YOU DADDY I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG.

That makes zero sense. Chaos showed Lorgar a vision in which it was Chaos itself that destroyed the Eldar. If you're Lorgar, and you're shown a vision from somebody saying "join us and be humanity's savior, or we'll destroy humanity ourselves", would you join up? I sure wouldn't, nobody who tells me they're going to destroy my species gets to claim that they'd be my savior if they refrain. That's not an offer of help, that's blackmail.

sorry buddy but it makes a lot more sense than 0

 

Argal Tal wasn't shown a future that depicted chaos destroying the eldar....he was shown a future of the eldar spawning Slaanesh thru their own hedonism and running for the hills (as far as She that thirsts see it)

 

Plus your argument kinda indicates that you haven't read Legion........setting yourself up as better than a Primarch???? I may hate the book but I still have humility :P

[Ubermensch Commander]

And when said gods tell said worshiper *the fate of your race is in your hands*, well........maybe hubris is gonna kick in because you get to be the saviour of your race and say SCREW YOU DADDY I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG.

That makes zero sense. Chaos showed Lorgar a vision in which it was Chaos itself that destroyed the Eldar. If you're Lorgar, and you're shown a vision from somebody saying "join us and be humanity's savior, or we'll destroy humanity ourselves", would you join up? I sure wouldn't, nobody who tells me they're going to destroy my species gets to claim that they'd be my savior if they refrain. That's not an offer of help, that's blackmail.

sorry buddy but it makes a lot more sense than 0

 

Argal Tal wasn't shown a future that depicted chaos destroying the eldar....he was shown a future of the eldar spawning Slaanesh thru their own hedonism and running for the hills (as far as She that thirsts see it)

 

Plus your argument kinda indicates that you haven't read Legion........setting yourself up as better than a Primarch???? I may hate the book but I still have humility :P

 

Yeah, because Chaos always showed "the truth." They were totally on the up and up with the vision they showed Horus, right? :)

 

Also, Legion is a TERRIBLE example. Oh yes...believe the vision of a cabal of aliens, amongst whom is the ELDAR a race KNOWN to be manipulative and deceitful, AFTER they mentally beat you.

Genius!

Besides, if Lorgar is any example, YEAH I WOULD put myself above certain Primarchs. ;)

 

Yeah Ingethel LIED about the Fall, big time. That the Eldar "faltered" because of a lack of faith and because they "choose terror over power and damn their kingdom to ashes because the Primordial Truth frightens them." Bull. There was no agreement going on their. They birthed a cosmic obscenity through pride and depravity and it ate them. There was no lack of faith or faltering at the last step. Only *snap* *gulp* mmmmm soulllllsss!

 

 

What gets me is all these "visions" and yet no one QUESTIONS if this stuff is mutable. Obviously, it is, since the Emperor had his prophetic visions which differed from others prophetic visions.

Heck, the Eldar are always mentally boobtubing the various outcomes of fate.

Even that daemon filth in The First Heretic mentions that "in many of the futures it saw" the void whale eat the Word Bearers ship.

[Vixthra]

Must.......try.....to....be......objective......even.....tho.......my.....primarch ....is .....being .......insulted!!!!! :)

 

I think that one of the main reasons that the mutability of the prophetic visions isn't called into question so readily, is that the start of the heresy is pretty much the first contact with chaos for the astartes. So when the big four start throwing visions of a stagnant imperium to Mr Lupercal or make it known to Lorgar that worship IS the way, they are not only playing on their weaknesses and current bitter feelings towards daddy, but they're telling them exactly what they want to hear and have little reason to disbelieve any of it.

 

Everyone likes to feel vindicated and the big four do exactly that. Lorgar is spiritually wounded, he's had his raison d'etre shattered and he's upset with daddy for the chastisement. He's then shown the *truth*, gets to continue doing what he's good at, gets a shed load more tangible power AND gets to be the saviour of mankind (from this skewed perspective of course).

 

Someone as straight-laced as Robot Girlyman would think twice I'm sure, but poor Lorgy has just had his dreams shattered

[lee265]

Chaos gods and daemons are known to the primarchs they just refered to them as xenos from the warp that were powerful. I don't nknow about you but that makes all the Primarchs that listened to them just stupid. Seriously they had all spent decades or even more then a century fighting xenos and liberating worlds that were opressed by them. Suddenly the primarchs that are super intelegent get hurt feelings and see what is xenos induced visions and boom they are now followers of these xenos claiming to be real gods. In the end its pathetic at best. So Logar was just being as Stupid as Horus. Its the one drawback of the books I used to think the primarchs of the chaos legions were really interesting but honestly I know 5 year olds that have more emotional and intalectual capability. In the end Logar got told that wasting time converting planets and building temples was wrong and wait this is the kicker It had been wrong from the start because it violated the imperial truth.

 

Secondary thought maybe its Emperor Bobs fault because he should have got rid of the primarchs not capable of following simple directions or at least covering up the fact that they couldn't follow the basic instructions.

1.)conquer planet

2.)spread imperial truth

3.)repeat step 1 and 2 quickly

[Vixthra]

Chaos gods and daemons are known to the primarchs they just refered to them as xenos from the warp that were powerful. I don't nknow about you but that makes all the Primarchs that listened to them just stupid. Seriously they had all spent decades or even more then a century fighting xenos and liberating worlds that were opressed by them. Suddenly the primarchs that are super intelegent get hurt feelings and see what is xenos induced visions and boom they are now followers of these xenos claiming to be real gods. In the end its pathetic at best. So Logar was just being as Stupid as Horus. In the end Logar got told that wasting time converting planets and building temples was wrong and wait this is the kicker It had been wrong from the start because it violated the imperial truth.

 

I think simplifying it as stupidity is a little.......shortsighted at least.

 

In Horus' case it took the combined efforts of the big four, a cabal of chaos worshipers on Davin, a wound from a Nurglified (i LIKE the sound of that word) weapon and the machinations of Erebus to turn him. Maybe Horus could be considered naive for not talking to daddy about it first but stupidity? No.

 

Now Lorgar is a different kettle of fish and I'll concede that there is an element of stupidity in his actions but there are factors to consider as I've stated previously

 

He was raised on Colchis, a world with deep and longstanding religious traditions. He was raised by Kor Phaeron, a man who taught Lorgar the Old Faith. When the cadians show Lorgar that not only was the Emp wrong about the existance of gods (yes I know its subjective whether they're gods or not but to a man that WANTS to believe.....well he's gonna) but also that the Old Faith on Colchis was the spiritual outlet he'd been looking for all along, this is just cementing the path he feels he needs to be on.

 

This combined with the fact that he now believes the Primordial Truth, Lorgar can now have his cake AND eat it so to speak. He gets to be the religious saviour of mankind..........as he too has golden skin

 

tl;dr Scratch beneath the surface before you call 'stupidity' :P

[lee265]

Horus still new about the whole warp entities and ended up having to believe something from Erberus who he states in said vision lied to him. Thats simple logic 101 if he lied about who he was how much of the vision is a lie Horus decides its worth following. These guys are supposed to be intelegent I wouldn't fall for it drunk and high.

 

As to Logar He failed to listen to the one guy he thought was god then got mad when it was pointed out. Then xenos from the warp claimed to be gods and he was all over it. Maybe I view it with to much personal experience in there but seriously it is mental.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Someone as straight-laced as Robot Girlyman would think twice I'm sure, but poor Lorgy has just had his dreams shattered

 

Hahah yeah, that Gulliman, how dare he honor his oaths and not turn on his brothers and allies. I mean, its not like Lorgar fought for the Imperium using the Emperor's Legions and was educated in the Imperial Truth, had his Emperor deny divinity from the get go, was given orders to destroy all those faiths encountered on human worlds, or received any other numerous "hints' that maybe, just MAYBE, propagating faith in a rationalist empire MIGHT not be the best idea. That Chastisement? Totally outta left field. :)

 

Actually what pissed me off the MOST was his hitting Malcador. The dude is a fragile old man and the Emperor's closest confidant! Stop throwing a temper tantrum Lorgar, and get it under control.

 

ADB does write Lorgar's simpering very well, portraying Lorgar very true to his aforementioned (In prior fluff) character. I still have to facepalm though, if you will excuse the meme.

 

I still don't condone Lorgar's WILLFUL disregard of everything and up to his father denying his divinity and I CERTAINLY don't concede that his shattered ego and flagrant fanaticism excuse his betrayal of his brothers, father, and dooming the galaxy to madness at the hands of the Chaos gods.

I mean, jeez man, you could at least go shopping around if looking for some gods to worship. I hear the Orks got two real party animals on their side of things. ;)