Unlucky or over confident?

[jjfelber]

Here is my unit - 400pts in a 1650pt list

 

4 Swiftclaw bikes

1 Attack bike with Multi-Melta

 

Wolf Lord on Bike, FB, SS, Runic Armor, WTT, Saga of Warrior Born

 

 

Scenario:

Turn one, I move forward 12 inches and take a shot with the Multi-Melta at his vindicator. It now cannot shoot next turn. Not great, but buys me some time.

His turn one, Shoots his unit of bikes at mine, kills one with bolter fire and one with multi-melta, His dread hits 2 with heavy flamer and kills one, and kills another with its multimelta. Then his autocannon does 2 wounds to my attack bike.

 

At that point all that is left is my Wolf lord, His second dread from 22" away hits my lord with its multimelta, I fail the 3+ Invul save and poof dead.

 

That pretty much set the pace for the entire game. My long fangs all died from a vindicator shot. Unit 1 of 3 GH units died to bolter/melta fire, Unit 2 of 3 GH wiped a unit of jumppacks only to be slain by the vindicator, The only good unit was GH unit 3 of 3 which came down in a drop pod and killed 10 jump packs and 10 marines before losing the last model. Riflemen Dread died to krak and Melta bombs.

 

So, was I too confident with my Wolf Lord unit to think they could live one turn out in the open with the vindicator disabled? Should I always set up in cover and try to turbo boost into assault range for the next turn?

 

Maybe I should have left the lord at home and brought another whole unit of GHs?

[MaveriK]

well could you write down your entire list and your opponents? sometimes the dice gods are just against you, sometimes they favor you. but never leave home without your wolf scouts haha

[Godhead]

From my experience bikes are deceptively fragile compared to some other units. Their exceptional speed and their ability to wreck things in the backfield causes them to draw an obscene amount of fire. Obviously turbo boosting for the cover save is absolutely worth it. Even then, concentrated fire on a moderately small unit will cripple it, if not wipe it out. I ended up fielding 2 squads of bikes to help minimize this. It made a huge difference. I now run 2 bike squads that sets up and supports my TWC. It works real nice, even when the bikes have been wiped, they protected my TWC so much that they hit the enemy lines unscathed.

[jjfelber]

This is Quick, various weapon load out in GHs

 

4 Swiftclaw bikes

1 Attack bike with Multi-Melta

Wolf Lord on Bike, FB, SS, Runic Armor, WTT, Saga of Warrior Born

 

9GH + Pack Leader in Rhino

9GH + Pack Leader in Drop Pod

8GH + Pack Leader + Runelord (Chooser, LL, JotWW) in Rhino

Riflemen Dread

6LFs, 5Missile

[Marshal Wilhelm]

As you will know from experience, your Rhino really helps keep your Greys alive.

 

Having t4[5] doesn't really make the bikes very durable, not point for point anyway.

 

What I suggest is use that preferred Italian armour ~ not being there.

Don't have your bikes out in the open, especially on T1+2.

Hide behind terrain and even your own tanks.

 

You could even have a Rune priest cast Storm caller to give them a 5++ just in case they get seen. Make sure 50% of your squad is in cover.

 

Any unit with a killy Lord in it, right out in the open is just begging to be shot at!

 

Don't hoon right at them like a World Eater might. Hunt them like a Wolf ;)

[Valerian]

So, was I too confident with my Wolf Lord unit to think they could live one turn out in the open with the vindicator disabled?

 

Yes

 

Should I always set up in cover and try to turbo boost into assault range for the next turn?

 

Yes. Or setup off-table in Reserves.

 

Maybe I should have left the lord at home and brought another whole unit of GHs?

 

Not necessarily. The bikes are a great unit, but they aren't survivable enough to take the brunt of all 1st and 2nd turn shooting from an enemy force. You have to preserve them and protect them until you can apply their combat power along with the rest of your force.

 

Valerian

[Hear da Lamentation]

Your army is similar to mine, although I have slightly different load out on the bikes and GH (no drop pod etc.) Personally I would go for saga of the bear over warrior born, for exactly the reason you saw. Any old Str8 missile weapon is going to instakill him if he fails his save. Just WAY too many Str8 weapons out there and WAY too many points to lose.

 

As Littlbitz says, patience is the key to the bikers .... the 1st time I used them with a lord, they got all the attention of the opposing army and got shot to hell and back as well. Give them other targets to worry about, turbo the bikers whenever you have to keep them out in the open - and maybe use them out on a flank. Reserves can be really great, but to be honest using them in reserve always worries me that I am going to keep 1/3 of my army points out of the fight until Turn 5 ! (It's happened :huh: )

 

One thing to add though I guess. While they are shooting everything they have at your bikers - they are ignoring everything else

[littlbitz]

Yeah, you kind of rushed into things.

 

It takes practice to use bikes, they are worth it, if you are willing to put in the time to learn to use them properly.

 

You have a Pod Pack, you could have used that to take out the Vindicator. The Pod would have obstructed his avenue of fire, and your pack could have disembarked on a flank of the vehicle. Rush the Rhino packs forward, while turbo-boosting your bikers up a flank.

 

I don't know the whole scenario but by the sounds of what you describe that would have been more my approach.

 

A couple things about your load out on your bikers, A pack leader will help loads, especially if you are only using one biker pack, this will allow you to separate your lord from his pack to act on his own if need be, while maintaining a higher leadership and the ability to fire on your Bike pack.

 

I also would try and get MBs on those bikers, a Fist or Two would help as well.

 

Oh, biggest thing though, I prefer Warrior Born on a Thunder Lord, I always use Saga of the Bear on my Biker Lord, and give him something to punch armor with (Thunder hammer in my case.)

 

Here is a link to my Thread on Bikes. I'm not saying all of my opinions are the right ones, but maybe it will give you some ideas.

Swift Claw Tactics thread

[jjfelber]

I prefer Warrior Born on a Thunder Lord, I always use Saga of the Bear on my Biker Lord, and give him something to punch armor with (Thunder hammer in my case.)

 

Is this a question of great controversy?

 

Whether or not to ruin your Wolf Lord's Initiative 5 with a Thunderhammer?

 

I think I would fall on the side that uses his initiative 5 and adds a Powerfist to the SwiftClaw unit.

Am I wrong or is this personal preference?

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What did your opponent have?

[littlbitz]

@jjfelber, I don't know that its of great controversy. Its just my personal preference.

 

Yes, I do lose the Initiative 5 by taking a Thunder Hammer. But my Lord is capable of taking on almost anything thrown at him. He will almost always get to swing, with a Runic Armor save, and a Stormshield combined with T4(5), and Eternal Warrior, it will take alot to bring him down.

 

Oh, and I throw in Powerfists with the pack he is with as well. Maybe I'm a bit of a nut, but thats the way I roll... :P

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Here is my unit - 400pts in a 1650pt list

 

4 Swiftclaw bikes

1 Attack bike with Multi-Melta

 

Wolf Lord on Bike, FB, SS, Runic Armor, WTT, Saga of Warrior Born

 

So, was I too confident with my Wolf Lord unit to think they could live one turn out in the open with the vindicator disabled? Should I always set up in cover and try to turbo boost into assault range for the next turn?

 

Maybe I should have left the lord at home and brought another whole unit of GHs?

 

As I learnt with my White Scars, small bike squads are vunerable to massed fire. Just remember against the humble bolter you will still be wounded every third Hit. If you like the idea of using your Swift Claws, consider dropping the lord and replacing with a bare bones BL or tooled up Wolf Guard. Instead of buying more Grey Hunters, bulk out the Swift Claws.

 

That would give you more men on the ground which makes you more resiliant to small arm fire. It also means a lot more attacks on the charge (which you should hopefully survive to make).

 

As others have said - make use of cover. You can use Rhinos to cover your approach as well as the drop pod to break up their lines of fire.